You Tell Me Who Is Worse

[Stump_Branch]

The Oil Man (your Propane man, Power company NG etc.) or the so called Wood dealers.
Having been screwed by both now, I hope to be able to be rid of both of them by next year. I will be striving with all of my might to insulate the whole house, by a bigger stove and scrounge for all the wood I can fit on my land.

Wood – bought a cord, was near as green as the stuff I cut a month ago. Had to beg for an early Christmas present of another cord which was better but then again only so much.
Oil – had to get a fill today, 3.69 a gallon, a dollar more than three months ago. I know out of my control but the kicker is the first time, the low introductory rate, the tank took 180 gallons. It was bone dry, the furnace wouldn’t even kick on. This was also my first time in the house and with oil heat for that matter. Apparently my tank grew, because now with oil in the tank, furnace running, it takes 45 gallons more, of course at the higher price too.


So I ask who truly is the worse one, to me I guess both. They are both dishonest, try to short you at every turn, sell poor quality products.
Stump_Branch…Stumped

 

[sixman]

I filled up my 250 gallon propane tank a couple of weeks ago at $2.45 a gallon. I have not used a drop for heat since I installed my wood stove last summer but we do use it for cooking and hot water. This is my first year on wood heat and very happy that my set up has kept us toasty warm, warmer than we would have ever been on gas and this has been by far the coldest couple of weeks I can remember since 1984, my house has stayed between 75-80 the whole time. We are not self sufficient yet but as close as we can be.

 

[Big Al]

40% of my NG bill is "delivery charges". What? It's piped into the house. No delivery truck ever pulls up and puts NG in my house. Also, when I first started burning, they kept charging me the yearly average. I called and told them I installed a wood stove. They sent a tech out. He didn't even ask to see the stove, but he spent a lot of time making sure i didn't rig the meter. I guess that's not as bad as being ***** by the oil man, but that's my story.

 

[offroadaudio]

I have a 20 gallon fuel cell on my truck. About once every 6 months I'll fill it and add some stabilizer - then put it in the oil furnace tank. If I get off-road at one of the local stations it's much less than regular fuel oil prices. At the pace of 20gal every 6 months - I'll never run out!

 

[Stump_Branch]

i need to find some way to do that and fill up my non descript vehicle with it. that and start collecting and filter used oil form fast food joints

 

[SolarAndWood]

Told the propane man to come get his tank at the house, let the oil tank at the camp go dry and haven't bought wood in 3 years. This year dhw will come from solar/wood/heat pump. Still haven't figured out how to get the electric company out of my life.

 

[offroadaudio]

i need to find some way to do that and fill up my non descript vehicle with it. that and start collecting and filter used oil form fast food joints

Just to be clear - I don't use it in my truck, I just have a 20 gallon tank in the bed for getting furnace / tractor fuel. I have heard that the fines amount to many thousands as it's considered tax evasion.

 

[Battenkiller]

Stump, there are some really good firewood dealers, but you have to hunt them down. Once you have one, do everything in your power not to piss him off. Surest way to do that is to whine about the load being a little short. If the guy is good to begin with, he knows exactly how much each of his vehicles holds, and will do whatever he has to to make sure you get a full load, plus a wee bit more. But if you spend several hours stacking the wood as tight as humanly possible and find you are a foot short in one row, suck it up. The guy works real hard for the money he's charging you. If he sees you stacked the last load, he'll usually ask how it stacked up. If I got a slightly short load, I always mention it, but just in passing. I'll say something like, "Yeah, it was a little short, but I stack real tight. I'm plenty happy with what I got." Bet your life the next load he brings has some extra.

Now, that freakin' power company OTOH.....

 

[jaydee]

Stump, there are some really good firewood dealers, but you have to hunt them down. Once you have one, do everything in your power not to piss him off. Surest way to do that is to whine about the load being a little short. If the guy is good to begin with, he knows exactly how much each of his vehicles holds, and will do whatever he has to to make sure you get a full load, plus a wee bit more. But if you spend several hours stacking the wood as tight as humanly possible and find you are a foot short in one row, suck it up. The guy works real hard for the money he's charging you. If he sees you stacked the last load, he'll usually ask how it stacked up. If I got a slightly short load, I always mention it, but just in passing. I'll say something like, "Yeah, it was a little short, but I stack real tight. I'm plenty happy with what I got." Bet your life the next load he brings has some extra.

Now, that freakin' power company OTOH.....

But if they short you 15% consistently and then try to tell you to your face that the (measured) 2/3 cord really is a full cord, adios! One has to draw the line somewhere.

 

[wkpoor]

I've always felt seasoned wood is not the responsibilty of the seller but the buyer. If you are buying your firewood than buy it in the spring for the winter after not even for the winter following. What I do have a beaf about is how most do not sell an honest cord and most do not have consistant sized splits.

 

[Jimbob]

Power is reasonable around here, so no issues with him.
Oil and propane are so expensive, almost nobody around here heats with either of them.
Most people around here heat with gas, but the cost of NG and hydro are very close.
The greedy oil companies are worse in my eyes.

Ranking most common heat, to least common heating source around here, I think anyway:

Nat. Gas
Electric
Wood.
Pellets
Oil
Coal
Propane

 

[wood-fan-atic]

Oil co. SU*kS balls!! Prices highest Ive ever seen ($3.64 gal) and they are running all over town trying to make deliveries while the price is at peak. I heat 100% with wood, only use oil for hot water, so minimal consumption. I put a lock on the gate to prevent any 'surprise' deliveries.

 

[salecker]

Don't know where my last post went...computers
Anyhow
Don't bash the oil guy.In our small town i'm the oil guy.I own the truck and the business.The government has no qualms about coming up with regulatinos to shove up my arse.Inspections every 6 months/year depending on which branch.I add a margine per liter,so when the price of oil goes up i don't make any more money,actuall less if you look at percentages.I have the same expenses as a company in a big city..my equiment only works one day a week..small town
I slough through deep snow to get to the tank which everyone puts way out of the way,sometimes at -40C or 40 below F.Spring brings yards mined with dog bombs.150' of hose full of fuel gets heavy,does pull easyer in the snow.My wife has to take clients to court to pay for fuel they have already burnt.We have to pay for each load we get,what makes people think they don't have to pay their bills...WTF..Everyons happy when their house is warm at -40,but forget they have to pay for the heat.Then they want fuel right away...what do you meen i can't charge..i paid the court already...duhhh.
I enjoy getting out delivering fuel,not because i make a ton of money but freash air exercise,no phone.
I'm in the prosess of installing a wood gasification boiler to heat our house,yes fuel prices are a concern to me as well,i have to buy the fuel just like the rest .Wood is basically free,i have the truck chainsaw ax's,which i had when i didn't burn wood,i enjoy getting out in the freash air and exersise.
If you don't like the price of your heat get off your arse and do something about it.Don't bash someone who is keeping it warm.I'm just trying to feed my family.I provide a good service at a fair price,i don't gouge anyone,it's a small town,our price per liter is cheaper than the big city.
I can't sell the business,economy is in the tank.I'v kept our customers full for the last 13 yrs,nobody to take my place if i'm sick,1 holiday since we bought the business.
Rant Off
Thomas

 

[wood-fan-atic]

WHOA, Thomas....breathe.....ohhhm.....ohhhmm...ohhhmmm.

Ok. I dont think anybody meant to insult the small businessman,here. ESPECIALLY here on Hearth. I have found that the people on this site are among the hardest working,most self-sufficient folk around. It is the oil INDUSTRY that is the object of ridicule and ire. The way the system is run ,from the ground up, leaves lots of room for corruption, and ultimately, inflated prices. When peoples ability to keep their families warm lies in the hands of Wall Street speculators.....faith in honest business practices is ,well....less than abundant.

Kudos to you, for working hard and providing for your family. It is the foundation of our society. People are just tired of being manipulated by taxes,gov't regulations, and corruption in big-business. The oil industry is one that will always be seen as legal organized crime....because of the hands it originates from overseas----> and the hands in big-business it passes thru en route to our shores.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I have never been screwed over by an oil man or gas guy. Looking at how they buy oil, and the investment/gamble they make, the price of oil to them, and their costs- I don't blame them for the cost.

When you consider the process of making oil- drilling, pumping, transport, refine, transport, with the number of hands that need to make a profit along the way- oil is a serious bargain. Sheesh- look at the cost of springwater in 20 oz bottles.

Wood monger's got a labor intensive sort of job with costs to make a living but I hear about them stiffing people on a cord sooo often- that sucks

 

[woodsmaster]

To me it's the elec. company becouse I don't have gas or oil and I cut my own wood. Our rates went up 12 % in dec. I'm doing most that I can to use less but I like the modern convienences
of man and won't go without it. I was talking to a big wig at our co-op and even though they prech coservation they still actually want you to use as much power as you can.

 

[Remmy122]

Stump as you know I got the stove to help with the electric bill.

We heat off an electric heat pump, and Mrs. Remmy always complained that it was a "cold heat" because its a wet heat. While I havent gotten my first post-stove bill I expect it to be a welcomed surprise! Our City electric bought into a group (electricities) who was a large contributor to a nuclear power plant with 4 towers. Well after the 1st tower was built 3 mile island occurred and no more nuclear power plants. We have been told that @ of our bill goes to paying for this debt and the debt is in the billions. Its killing us, last year we had a $600 electric bill.

Hoping the new bill is a huge cut and Mrs Remmy is happy. I gotten 100% into cutting my own wood. Im calling this a win/win/win.

I too was screwed by the wood guy, but honestly I got what I paid for/ should have expected.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

Duquesne Electric is the highest electric in the country. I do not have electric heat or water and our electric bill is still $280 a month. I do have a hot tub and a freezer, but come on that is ridiculous.

 

[Kenster]

Stump, there are some really good firewood dealers, but you have to hunt them down. Once you have one, do everything in your power not to piss him off. Surest way to do that is to whine about the load being a little short. If the guy is good to begin with, he knows exactly how much each of his vehicles holds, and will do whatever he has to to make sure you get a full load, plus a wee bit more. But if you spend several hours stacking the wood as tight as humanly possible and find you are a foot short in one row, suck it up. The guy works real hard for the money he's charging you. If he sees you stacked the last load, he'll usually ask how it stacked up. If I got a slightly short load, I always mention it, but just in passing. I'll say something like, "Yeah, it was a little short, but I stack real tight. I'm plenty happy with what I got." Bet your life the next load he brings has some extra.

Now, that freakin' power company OTOH.....

Battenkiller! You have six chainsaws and you BUY your Firewood! Oh, Lord, I've lost all faith in mankind!

 

[Kenster]

I've always felt seasoned wood is not the responsibility of the seller but the buyer.

True to a point. Unfortunately, not everyone is as educated as we are regarding buying and burning wood. The Seller should NOT be telling the customer that the wood is seasoned when it was cut last week and split yesterday. He should tell them exactly when it was split. Then it's up to the buyer to discern whether the wood is right for him or not. Telling someone that green wood is well seasoned is just as dishonest and the guy at the gas station filling your car up with 50% water.

If I choose to buy green wood or watered down gasoline, that's my problem but the seller shouldn't lie about what he's selling.

 

[Battenkiller]

Battenkiller! You have six chainsaws and you BUY your Firewood! Oh, Lord, I've lost all faith in mankind!

Well..... it's complicated. :roll: :lol:

Actually, only the 357XP is a real firewood getter. The smaller ones are for the carving that I am soon getting into (warmer weather first).

If I can get good wood cheap in logs, I'll be only too happy to buck and split it, but right now I have a source for straight loads of c/s/d black birch at near log load prices. The choice is an obvious one. Even for a little more money, getting the very best firewood I know of it worth the extra cost. I have no great love for low BTU wood, even if it is free.

 

[Kenster]

Fair enough, Battenkiller. Just yankin' your chain a little. Now I have another question re: our Vigilants. It's the only wood stove I've ever owned and operated. I follow the mantra of burning dry wood. Hopefully 20% or less. But, is that as critical in the Vigilant as it would be in a modern EPA Cat equipped stove?

I'm really going to be in a bind in about three more nights of burning and February is usually our coldest month. I've got almost two cords of split water oak and pin oak stacked out back. A lot of it is off the chart wet but some of it is from the tops of trees that were either twisted off in high winds, or from standing dead. So, the MC is closer to mid 20%-- 25-28. Would it be a bad thing to burn some of this, maybe mixed with what little dry splits I have left? The alternative is be cold or, heaven forbid, turn the heat pumps on.

I've also scouted my woods and have found some decent downed wood, mostly tops that have broken off, that appeared to be solid but light weight so I'm hoping it's dry and burnable. That will only give me a few more nights, though. I'd rather not get into next year's (or the year after that) stack but Just wondered if it would be okay in the Vigilant if it's only moderately seasoned.

And with a huge honey hole of down but still beautiful water oak I'll never come up short again - I swear it. More wood out there than I could burn in 20 lifetimes.

Thanks.

 

[Stump_Branch]

My intent is not to shun the small business owner. I do not complain much about the cost. i understand the economics of it all. i am not about to go to the gas station and complain about the cost of fuel there. i know where theres a demand with limited supply, inherent prices/cost go up.

My issues was those who when dealing with a comodity try to short cut their customers at every turn. I certainly hope that deep down this isnt on purpose, however i suspect on some levels its done knowingly.
The oil man shorting you fuel when you get a good price or use a coupon, then come next time tops you off to 'make up' for th last time.
The propane man who charges tank rentals and 'forces' customers to buy...or else...
The electric company and their service charges and as remmy says old grid deals that never went through and a poor business practice leave the customer stuck with the bill.
The NG company who charges delivery fees, or other hidden charges, in particular during the high useage times.
The wood dealer who...isnt really a dealer just a fly by wintertime part-timer selling greenwood, knowingly, as seasoned. not knowing what a particular quanity and selling it as another or knowingly doing so.

Im not saying that no one should make any money. If i have a lemonade stand its hot and people want to pay for it, you do what you can to make money. but im not about to charge their appendages or first born for a watered down glass.

you just hope that there are the good ones out there. here while its mostly about the wood fuel, you hear lots of complains on the other fuel sources. this is just mine. calling it the sharpest learning curve, having learned now from being upended by bothe the oil man and wood man. (not to be sexist here, could have been women)

more importantly then costs of either, or even how much of it you may use, find honesty in your dealings and you likely wont be complaining. i think thats why most cut and burn their own wood. you know your honest, or your just cheating yourself.

 

[firefighterjake]

I really can't complain about any of the groups listed.

Wood seller: Don't buy wood, so it doesn't affect me . . . and even if I did buy wood I wouldn't expect the wood to be "seasoned" to my definition, but in any case I would at least ask the seller when was the wood cut AND split . . . as for quantity . . . as long as it comes up to a cord to meet Maine's legal definition I would be happy.

Oil/Propane seller: In my case I get my oil and propane from the same company . . . a nice, family-owned business that has consistently had some of the lowest prices in the area . . . and perhaps more importantly they have given back to the community and realize that customer service is what it is all about. I never like filling up my oil tank, but figure this is the cost of being able to leave my house in the winter to go on a vacation and not worry about the place freezing up and it's the cost of being able to heat the home when my wife is too sick to feed the stove during the day. I also don't particularly like buying propane which I use for cooking and domestic hot water, but I prefer cooking with gas and like the quick heat and low maintenance of the gas . . . so again . . . I really can't complain. I use the product sold and can't complain about the prices.

Electricity seller/provider: My electric bill has gone up . . . even while many wind turbines have come into this state with the promise of cheaper electricity. I could belly ache here some, but truth be told I like my large screen plasma TV and the hot tub . . . so the price increase may in fact be more to my usage habits than actual prices of the item.

I guess if I have any issue it is with the larger oil companies or perhaps the speculators who seem to take any perceived negative issue (i.e. possible hurricaine in the Gulf Coast, uprisingin the Middle East, etc.) and instantly the price of oil and gas goes up . . . and it seems as though it goes up a lot faster and stays there a lot longer than the time it takes to drop in price and stay at the "lower" price.

 

[fran35]

I've always felt seasoned wood is not the responsibilty of the seller but the buyer. If you are buying your firewood than buy it in the spring for the winter after not even for the winter following. What I do have a beaf about is how most do not sell an honest cord and most do not have consistant sized splits.

If the seller states that the wood is 2 years split and seasoned and the wood turns out to be soaking wet and 60% percent of a cord, there is a real issue.

As a new wood burner I have absolutely no problem paying top dollar for a cord of wood that was split last year. However, thus far I have purchased 4 cords of soaking wet wood. Actually, scratch that---I have paid for 4 cords of wood from 3 different criminals. It just happens that while I paid for 4 cords, it actually only measured out to 2.5 cords.

This will never be an issue for me again, as I am well into stocking for future seasons with what I have scrounged and the 2.5 cords of crap that I have apid for. It would just be nice to get what is advertised. I simply do not have the financial means to buy firewood from 10 different sellers in the hopes that I find one honest guy.