Draft Testing Question (re: backpuffing problem)

[Parallax]

Thanks for all the feedback in my last thread. It got a bit overwhelming, particularly since we kept getting backpuffs and both the dealer and Chris were out of town. It all seemed like too much (so much so that I found myself regretting the decision to go with a wood stove). It's been such a steep learning curve and things just haven't been easy at all. When a backpuff happens, my wife takes the baby upstairs to our room. We keep the door closed to avoid getting smoke in there. Whatever we've been doing -- talking, eating dinner, watching television -- is over. Then I scurry about trying to figure out how to clear the smoke and she goes to bed. But the dealer called this morning to set up an appointment to measure the draft.

I checked the cat this morning since the stove had burned out over night. It looked mostly clean. There was ash on the combs but they looked very much open. I'm no expert and will let the dealer check again when he comes out to do the draft test. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have the chimney cleaned but the dealer said it looked good so, for now, I'm trusting that.

In answer to other questions, I am burning pressed logs because my wood is just not dry enough. The backpuffs have only happened with the bypass door closed.

The dealer is trying to contact Chris over at Blaze King to ask some questions about running a draft test. They are heating experts but wood stoves are not their strength. The owner doesn't burn wood so he's mostly in the dark. Is there anything I (or he) should know before he begins the testing? Is there a reading that would indicate there is or is not a problem?

He asked me to have the stove cold when we begin. I guess he'll test it that way first and then we'll fire it up and see what happens.

 

[blueguy]

IIRC, BK manuals state the minimum draft requirement in them. I am pretty sure the min requirements have been posted by Chris as well in other threads here

 

[blueguy]

Can you post a pic of your door gasket (a shot of the whole thing)?

 

[Parallax]

Can you post a pic of your door gasket (a shot of the whole thing)?

Here you go:

 

[begreen]

The manual does state the recommended draft. What is very confusing it the maximum draft warning. It's just .01 more?? This doesn't seem right. Normal draft variance can be much greater even in an ideal chimney due the outdoor temp changes. For example with the Jotul F55 the reading should be in the .05 - 1.0 w.c. range. Maybe just poor doc wording? Waiting for BKVP to clarify.

 

[rdust]

In answer to other questions, I am burning pressed logs because my wood is just not dry enough.

How many years worth of wood have you been able to put up over the winter? I have a feeling well seasoned cord wood will go a long way towards helping resolve your problem.

 

[Highbeam]

The manual does state the recommended draft. What is very confusing it the maximum draft warning. It's just .01 more?? This doesn't seem right. Normal draft variance can be much greater even in an ideal chimney due the outdoor temp changes. For example with the Jotul F55 the reading should be in the .05 - 1.0 w.c. range. Waiting for BKVP to clarify.

View attachment 154484

A fine line there between recommended and void your warranty!

 

[drz1050]

How many of those pressed logs are you putting in at once?

 

[fire_man]

Not sure if this will help but I had significant backpuffing issues with my Progress until I added 2 feet to the flue (17' total).

 

[rideau]

A shame to have someone who is not knowledgeable about wood heating selling the stove. Hopefully BK will see someone who is an expert checks this situation.

I would clean that cat. And the chimney. SO easy to do. Why wait?

 

[NinjaTech]

A fine line there between recommended and void your warranty!

That has to be a typo, my liner is all of one foot past BK's minimum length, and i regularly see over .10 W.C. on windy days it can average closer to .15. Someone with a really tall flue would probably be .2+

 

[blueguy]

Here you go:

View attachment 154480

Thanks. In the pic, it looks like the gasket on the hinge side is a little off and I see some dark shading on the outside edge in that area. Is this where your smoke smell is coming from? Is there evidence of a weld in the knife edge in this area?

 

[pdxdave]

Based on your major issue, the plethora of hoops you've jumped through to resolve it, and several accounts of similar issues with this box, I'd venture to say this stove is prone to the issue and you may want to look into getting a refund/replacement, its completely unacceptable to have to deal with it on a daily basis. Not all stoves are the same (even of the same make/model), and in general I see far too many issues here being attributed to wood/stack/operator.

 

[begreen]

A fine line there between recommended and void your warranty!

Yes, that would seem to void out most systems that are running in very low outside temperatures. Hoping it's an error.

 

[Parallax]

Thanks. In the pic, it looks like the gasket on the hinge side is a little off and I see some dark shading on the outside edge in that area. Is this where your smoke smell is coming from? Is there evidence of a weld in the knife edge in this area?

It's hard to tell where the smell is coming from. Seems like it's from the top of the stove, near the hole for the cat probe and/or where the stove pipe meets the stove -- but how does one tell with smoke. It could be coming up from the door.

What do you mean by a weld in the knife edge area?

 

[Parallax]

Based on your major issue, the plethora of hoops you've jumped through to resolve it, and several accounts of similar issues with this box, I'd venture to say this stove is prone to the issue and you may want to look into getting a refund/replacement, its completely unacceptable to have to deal with it on a daily basis. Not all stoves are the same (even of the same make/model), and in general I see far too many issues here being attributed to wood/stack/operator.

Would be a shame if I had to go with a different stove. Really like the Ashford (if it would only burn well). Chris (BKVP) has offered to have it shipped back so they can run tests on it. If we can't find any problem in the install, we might have to take up that offer. Only if we can't find the problem might I consider requesting an exchange or refund. Really hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[blueguy]

It's hard to tell where the smell is coming from. Seems like it's from the top of the stove, near the hole for the cat probe and/or where the stove pipe meets the stove -- but how does one tell with smoke. It could be coming up from the door.

What do you mean by a weld in the knife edge area?

You're going to have to get in close to the door and sniff it out. I'm willing to bet the smell starts at about the area where the gasket looks off between the hinges in your pic.

The ridge around the door opening made of flat plate that sticks out perpendicular from the stove body is the knife edge. It seals like a knife's edge

Can you see any welds on this plate all the way around the opening?

 

[drz1050]

If you think it's coming from the cat probe, can you pull the probe out and cover the hole up with a magnet temporarily, then run another test?

Wouldn't be able to see the cat temp that way, but maybe you can just set a timer for closing the bypass...

I really don't know if this is a good idea or not, just throwing it out there.

All the issues with this firebox also have me a bit concerned.. Don't remember seeing anything like this about the Princess or King.

 

[webby3650]

Would be a shame if I had to go with a different stove. Really like the Ashford (if it would only burn well). Chris (BKVP) has offered to have it shipped back so they can run tests on it. If we can't find any problem in the install, we might have to take up that offer. Only if we can't find the problem might I consider requesting an exchange or refund. Really hope it doesn't come to that.

I'll send my Ashford to you and you send yours here. Even trade! It's a beautiful stove, I'm sure BK will make it right. They are great people, I've seen them go above and beyond many times!

 

[brenndatomu]

It's hard to tell where the smell is coming from. Seems like it's from the top of the stove, near the hole for the cat probe and/or where the stove pipe meets the stove -- but how does one tell with smoke. It could be coming up from the door.

I've had success finding smoke leaks by making the room dark, and then putting a bright flash light on the opposite side of the expected smoke leak from where you are standing (kneeling). You may have to play with the light position a bit but I like having it point straight up and then look for the smoke at an angle that keeps you from looking straight at the light. Then you just wait, like a cat stalking it's prey, looking for that tiny lil wispy smoke puff. It's amazing what a tiny little amount of smoke the nose can detect!
I have found several "leaks" this way. Repairs for me have so far always came in the form of fixing draft issues, but in your situation, God only knows what the fix is! There is no such thing as a smoke tight stove/chimney if the draft isn't right.

 

[Parallax]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Will try that flashlight technique.

Out of curiosity, if the draft is alright, is it still possible to have a leak? I guess if the hole is large enough.

 

[begreen]

It would have to be a large hole. If the draft is decent usually not. The draft creates negative pressure in the stove interior that pulls air in through any tiny hole.

 

[DougA]

The draft creates negative pressure in the stove interior that pulls air in through any tiny hole.

Correct. A bigger hole will likely cause overdraft, not smell. In my old VC, I had too many problems with backpuffing, even though my chimney is 3' higher than required. When it was happening, we had a constant problem with smell and dust in the home. It was very disheartening. Even sometimes when the fire was running hot and I cut the air back a bit, I'd get the min-explosions and billows of smoke coming from every unseen joint.

After I installed my new Hearthstone in a different part of the room and chimney higher on the roof (actually at the peak), my problem is now overdraft. Overdraft is much easier to correct.

I doubt that you are getting any smell other than caused by poor draft. Poor draft can be wood that is too wet, poor design or chimney height/location. As I found out, location of the chimney is more important than the actual height. I'm in agreement with another poster, add 3 or 4' of chimney and I expect the problem will disappear or at least be greatly reduced.

Please let us know how things work out with BK. I know it is a very difficult experience to go through.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Will try that flashlight technique.

Out of curiosity, if the draft is alright, is it still possible to have a leak? I guess if the hole is large enough.

Absolutely. As I have posted several times before, my PH had a smoke smell issue and I had and still have great draft. The problem turned out to be a flawed door gasket design and a syphon effect in the door hinge channel that was pulling smoke from the stove into the room. The WS repair kit fixed both problems. And that is a fact, not a theory. No more smoke.

 

[Parallax]

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful. If I can't raise the chimney, are there other decent ways to improve draft?