BK T-stat question-

NATE379 said:

I agree with HotCoals. I found out a while back that I don't really use the T Stat on my stove. I always burn with it at around 12:00-#1... which is closes the air all the way down.


IF I pull that plate off, won't that bypass the OAK?

Click to expand...

Yes it would bypass it..but should not matter just for a day or two just to watch the t-stat.

I haven't had the cover off mine for an extended period of time to watch what it is doing. But, I'm having a hard time believing it never moves once it's set. If it never opens, why do the flames, and glow of the wood, appear and disappear...especially during the first 12 hours of the burn during a cold night. Perhaps it is moving so little that it is difficult to detect, but it must be moving if the glow comes and goes.

During mild weather, perhaps it doesn't move, because I rarely see the glow at all during those burn cycles.

Just my observations and reasoning...

i just burn wood in my stove and set it to that what i want for the heat i want. and forget about the rest. lol i just know i love my blaze king.

fdegree said:

I haven't had the cover off mine for an extended period of time to watch what it is doing. But, I'm having a hard time believing it never moves once it's set. If it never opens, why do the flames, and glow of the wood, appear and disappear...especially during the first 12 hours of the burn during a cold night. Perhaps it is moving so little that it is difficult to detect, but it must be moving if the glow comes and goes.

During mild weather, perhaps it doesn't move, because I rarely see the glow at all during those burn cycles.

Just my observations and reasoning...

Click to expand...

Just going through the first couple of stages will change the burn some.
It also seems all stoves react more to cold weather burns...draft.
I'm not saying it won't move some because it will.
It's working off the heat of the stove through conduction.
Would love to see it work off of stack temps!
Maybe a box right above the stove (at the flue exit)..I'm thinking 5 or so inches up off the surface with the t-stat in it then linkage down to the flapper.


Now you would have more drastic temp swings for the t-stat to react to.
I might just try this project.
I would still use my limit screw to limit air...saftey first.

I was hoping the Progress would have something like that.
None the less there is room for improvement and it would be a great thing..mostly for colder temps.
The bK does fine with the long burn without it it being sensitive.

HotCoals said:

fdegree said:

I haven't had the cover off mine for an extended period of time to watch what it is doing. But, I'm having a hard time believing it never moves once it's set. If it never opens, why do the flames, and glow of the wood, appear and disappear...especially during the first 12 hours of the burn during a cold night. Perhaps it is moving so little that it is difficult to detect, but it must be moving if the glow comes and goes.

During mild weather, perhaps it doesn't move, because I rarely see the glow at all during those burn cycles.

Just my observations and reasoning...

Click to expand...

I'm not saying it won't move some because it will.
It's working off the heat of the stove through conduction.
Would love to see it work off of stack temps!
Maybe a box right above the stove (at the flue exit)..I'm thinking 5 or so inches up off the surface with the t-stat in it then linkage down to the flapper.

The bK does fine with the long burn without it it being sensitive.

Click to expand...

Actually, you did say that it will not open earlier in this thread HotCoals. I have a Royal Heir, which doesn't have numbers or any sort of markings to know what level you are set at, but basically the same thermostat as the princess/king. So I made some marks on the knob itself, and use them in relation to the stove cabinet. Most of the time, I can hear the flapper shut when I turn it down to my normal setting, usually made between 6-7 in the morning. When I get back mid to late afternoon, the flapper will be wide open if the wood is about gone, or opened slightly if the fire is still going, but the wood has burned back to the back of the stove. And the room will be within a few degrees of where it started when I left. I believe that the thermostat is moving on my stove anyways. I had an old earth stove that operated the same way, although not quite as reliable about room temperature.

HotCoals, why do you want the thermostat to move in relation to the flue temperature? It seems to me that stove temperature is what is going to determine the temperature of the room, and that is what I would want controlled. I do watch flue temp, but that is not what dictates room temperature. The ideal goal would be to have as low a flue temp as possible, yet still maintain a draft, regardless of how hot your stove is. That would indicate a good efficiency of harvesting the heat off the wood burned. Not trying to argue on this point, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

NATE379 said:

I agree with HotCoals. I found out a while back that I don't really use the T Stat on my stove. I always burn with it at around 12:00-#1... which is closes the air all the way down.


IF I pull that plate off, won't that bypass the OAK?

Click to expand...

Does yours hit a stop at 6 o'clock? This is what mine looks like at wide open, 3.5. The collar on the shaft has an extra long set screw that also serves as a stop. It is fully closed at 1.5, with a stovetop temp of about 250. Thats about 2 o'clock, I know the Princess has a different thermostat and I don't know if the markings are the same. Perhaps something is out of adjustment, or something else is wrong with the thermostat? You should definitely have more of a range of operation.

jeff_t said:

HotCoals said:

A lot of what you guys are hearing is the stove clicking from heating up...

Click to expand...

Oh.

Click to expand...

This is most true. I've been watching for the last couple of hours. It does move at the higher settings, and I can see changes in the flame action, but it never fully closes. Even if it did, it wouldn't drop fast enough to make any noise. I also set it to where it was just at the point of being completely closed, and let it stabilize for half an hour or so (nap ;-), been up since 2am). Turning the blowers on high got an almost immediate response, within 15 seconds. It opened ever so slightly, but I watched it. Even repeated the process to be sure (more nap).

More interesting than I expected it to be.

I'm going to have to watch mine, I know it's working around 2 or slightly below. Just like fdegree describes I can watch the fire change during the burn from flames to no flames. The only way it's going to get flames is to get more air, I don't buy the "changing stage" theory or I would see similar changes if it was set to 1.5 or lower, it's lights out at that point.

Either way I don't care, I don't know of another stove in the 2.8 cubic foot or 4.3 cubic foot range that performs like these stoves do. If I lived in a climate of 30's and higher I could pull 24 hour burns all season long with the Princess or in my climate if I had a house built like the ones our friends in Alaska have!

jeff_t said:

Turning the blowers on high got an almost immediate response, within 15 seconds. It opened ever so slightly, but I watched it. Even repeated the process to be sure (more nap).

Click to expand...

That explains why Solar see's his burn times cut when he runs the fans on high. If I run mine it's always on low.

rdust said:

I'm going to have to watch mine, I know it's working around 2 or slightly below. Just like fdegree describes I can watch the fire change during the burn from flames to no flames. The only way it's going to get flames is to get more air, I don't buy the "changing stage" theory or I would see similar changes if it was set to 1.5 or lower, it's lights out at that point.

Either way I don't care, I don't know of another stove in the 2.8 cubic foot or 4.3 cubic foot range that performs like these stoves do. If I lived in a climate of 30's and higher I could pull 24 hour burns all season long with the Princess or in my climate if I had a house built like the ones our friends in Alaska have!

Click to expand...

Watch it for a while when you have time to kill. You'll learn a bit more about how your stove operates.

daleeper said:

HotCoals said:

fdegree said:

I haven't had the cover off mine for an extended period of time to watch what it is doing. But, I'm having a hard time believing it never moves once it's set. If it never opens, why do the flames, and glow of the wood, appear and disappear...especially during the first 12 hours of the burn during a cold night. Perhaps it is moving so little that it is difficult to detect, but it must be moving if the glow comes and goes.

During mild weather, perhaps it doesn't move, because I rarely see the glow at all during those burn cycles.

Just my observations and reasoning...

Click to expand...

I'm not saying it won't move some because it will.
It's working off the heat of the stove through conduction.
Would love to see it work off of stack temps!
Maybe a box right above the stove (at the flue exit)..I'm thinking 5 or so inches up off the surface with the t-stat in it then linkage down to the flapper.

The bK does fine with the long burn without it it being sensitive.

Click to expand...

Actually, you did say that it will not open earlier in this thread HotCoals. I have a Royal Heir, which doesn't have numbers or any sort of markings to know what level you are set at, but basically the same thermostat as the princess/king. So I made some marks on the knob itself, and use them in relation to the stove cabinet. Most of the time, I can hear the flapper shut when I turn it down to my normal setting, usually made between 6-7 in the morning. When I get back mid to late afternoon, the flapper will be wide open if the wood is about gone, or opened slightly if the fire is still going, but the wood has burned back to the back of the stove. And the room will be within a few degrees of where it started when I left. I believe that the thermostat is moving on my stove anyways. I had an old earth stove that operated the same way, although not quite as reliable about room temperature.

HotCoals, why do you want the thermostat to move in relation to the flue temperature? It seems to me that stove temperature is what is going to determine the temperature of the room, and that is what I would want controlled. I do watch flue temp, but that is not what dictates room temperature. The ideal goal would be to have as low a flue temp as possible, yet still maintain a draft, regardless of how hot your stove is. That would indicate a good efficiency of harvesting the heat off the wood burned. Not trying to argue on this point, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Click to expand...

Show me where i said it never moves.

The temps fluctuate more in the flue then the stove.
I'm would hope to make the flapper open more and sooner then it does..then to close when the desired temp is reached.
Also when the stove is about out of fuel and the flue really cools it should open up way more to burn down the coals.
I'm not saying it would work for sure..but I'm interested in trying it.
I have always said it's a great stove and I would buy it all over again...but the t-stat is not the magic.
Certainly not the key to long burns.

I burned on #2 last night, still burning the load now.
Moved to 2.5 as the stove cooled to finish the burn after it was on #2 for 15 hours.
Will be close to a 24 hour burn, nice to have temps in the 20s at night & 30° days
Set it, for get it for 12 hours, check it, adjust for needed heat output, for get it for 6 hours.
Not "magic", "alien technology" LOL :lol:

rdust said:

jeff_t said:

Turning the blowers on high got an almost immediate response, within 15 seconds. It opened ever so slightly, but I watched it. Even repeated the process to be sure (more nap).

Click to expand...

That explains why Solar see's his burn times cut when he runs the fans on high. If I run mine it's always on low.

Click to expand...

Measure out two loads and try it at the same tstat setting, one blowers on low, the other off. Even on low you will see a noticeable difference. Watch what happens with the cat thermometer when you turn the blowers on or off too. Give it about 45 seconds and the tstat will compensate to bring it back to the same temp, just transferring more heat with the blowers on than off.

bogydave said:

I burned on #2 last night, still burning the load now.
Moved to 2.5 as the stove cooled to finish the burn after it was on #2 for 15 hours.
Will be close to a 24 hour burn, nice to have temps in the 20s at night & 30° days
Set it, for get it for 12 hours, check it, adjust for needed heat output, for get it for 6 hours.
Not "magic", "alien technology" LOL :lol:

Click to expand...

You see you had to move it from 2 to 2.5..cause I know stove temps where down by then,In my little mind the t-stat should have opened it that far.

I guess I'm looking for more throttle response so to speak.

If it was twitchy, it would be reacting faster than the fire can.

SolarAndWood said:

If it was twitchy, it would be reacting faster than the fire can.

Click to expand...

I concur..fine line there.
Wish I had BK's resources at hand!

HotCoals said:

daleeper said:

HotCoals said:

fdegree said:

I haven't had the cover off mine for an extended period of time to watch what it is doing. But, I'm having a hard time believing it never moves once it's set. If it never opens, why do the flames, and glow of the wood, appear and disappear...especially during the first 12 hours of the burn during a cold night. Perhaps it is moving so little that it is difficult to detect, but it must be moving if the glow comes and goes.

During mild weather, perhaps it doesn't move, because I rarely see the glow at all during those burn cycles.

Just my observations and reasoning...

Click to expand...

I'm not saying it won't move some because it will.
It's working off the heat of the stove through conduction.
Would love to see it work off of stack temps!
Maybe a box right above the stove (at the flue exit)..I'm thinking 5 or so inches up off the surface with the t-stat in it then linkage down to the flapper.

The bK does fine with the long burn without it it being sensitive.

Click to expand...

Actually, you did say that it will not open earlier in this thread HotCoals. I have a Royal Heir, which doesn't have numbers or any sort of markings to know what level you are set at, but basically the same thermostat as the princess/king. So I made some marks on the knob itself, and use them in relation to the stove cabinet. Most of the time, I can hear the flapper shut when I turn it down to my normal setting, usually made between 6-7 in the morning. When I get back mid to late afternoon, the flapper will be wide open if the wood is about gone, or opened slightly if the fire is still going, but the wood has burned back to the back of the stove. And the room will be within a few degrees of where it started when I left. I believe that the thermostat is moving on my stove anyways. I had an old earth stove that operated the same way, although not quite as reliable about room temperature.

HotCoals, why do you want the thermostat to move in relation to the flue temperature? It seems to me that stove temperature is what is going to determine the temperature of the room, and that is what I would want controlled. I do watch flue temp, but that is not what dictates room temperature. The ideal goal would be to have as low a flue temp as possible, yet still maintain a draft, regardless of how hot your stove is. That would indicate a good efficiency of harvesting the heat off the wood burned. Not trying to argue on this point, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Click to expand...

Show me where i said it never moves.

The temps fluctuate more in the flue then the stove.
I'm would hope to make the flapper open more and sooner then it does..then to close when the desired temp is reached.
Also when the stove is about out of fuel and the flue really cools it should open up way more to burn down the coals.
I'm not saying it would work for sure..but I'm interested in trying it.
I have always said it's a great stove and I would buy it all over again...but the t-stat is not the magic.
Certainly not the key to long burns.

Click to expand...

Maybe I misunderstood you, but post #20 and #21 in this thread read that way to me.

Post #20 "You are assuming it is doing something." I assumed you were talking about the thermostat flapper.
Post #21 "But it takes a act of God to open back up again." Again, I assumed you were talking about the thermostat flapper

I do not have experience with either the King or Princess, but my Royal Heir thermostat flapper moves faster than the earth stove did. I agree it moves slow, but I don't think one would want it to slam shut and then fly wide open quickly either.

I agree that the stoves are great, and the thermostat is not magic, but I would have to disagree about it not being the key to long burns. Certainly the cat has the most to do with the long slow burns, but I believe that the thermostat plays a strong second part. This morning when I set the stove thermostat for the day at about 7:30 a.m., the thermostat flap was closed, but not tightly closed, the firebox had wood burning but no flame. When I just checked it at 5:00 p.m., the thermostat was opened up (not sure that it was wide open, but opened up quite a ways), and the room was within 2 degrees of the temp that I left it this morning, and I did not touch the stove from 7:30 to 5:00. This happens on all most days, there are a few exceptions, usually cold, windy days. I know that my fil's fisher will not do that, nor would my bil's ashley. I will admit that I have not used any other epa stoves that don't have a thermostat, so I can't say by experience, but I don't think any others can keep the temp constant like that with a manual control over that kind of time period. Even my old earth stove with a thermostat and bigger firebox couldn't do that. I say that the thermostat plays a big part in that.

I see something interesting in your comment about your flue temps fluctuate more than the stove? My stove doesn't do that. When I load my stove, flue temp rises fast with the bypass open, cat thermometer rises slowly until bypass is closed, then rises pretty quickly, but then as I begin to close down the thermostat, the flue temp on my stove slowly descends and usually will stay real steady once I have the thermostat set where I want it. I would say in my stove that the flue gas temp is more or at least as steady as the stove temp, as I really have to open it up for the flue gasses to raise much.

Anyway, HotCoals, I have enjoyed the discussion, and enjoy my stove. I have finally purchased a well used/abused BK King that I will be reconditioning and will be burning next season. We'll see how it burns in comparison to my small royal heir.

daleeper said:

I have finally purchased a well used/abused BK King

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Congrats!

Congrats daleeper!
Don't pay to much attention to my ramblings..most don't..lol.

I'll say this the blowers do effect the t-stat more then I originally thought.
Another thing I just noticed tonight..
I shot the temp of the t-stat housing with the cover off and I was surprised at how low the temp is there.
Now instead of messing with the stat location I'm thinking about a higher temp for the snap disc..if I could only make this wheel just a little bit rounder!

HotCoals said:

Now instead of messing with the stat location I'm thinking about a higher temp for the snap disc..if I could only make this wheel just a little bit rounder!

Click to expand...

I'm thinking your biggest problem with the tstat is it robbed you of your favorite winter pastime...tending fire

HotCoals said:

Congrats daleeper!
Don't pay to much attention to my ramblings..most don't..lol.

I'll say this the blowers do effect the t-stat more then I originally thought.
Another thing I just noticed tonight..
I shot the temp of the t-stat housing with the cover off and I was surprised at how low the temp is there.
Now instead of messing with the stat location I'm thinking about a higher temp for the snap disc..if I could only make this wheel just a little bit rounder!

Click to expand...

My stove didn't have a snap disc, so I wired one up. When looking for one my hardware store had an adjustable one, it was nice to be able to adjust it to where I wanted it to kick in at.

daleeper said:

I agree that the stoves are great, and the thermostat is not magic, but I would have to disagree about it not being the key to long burns. Certainly the cat has the most to do with the long slow burns, but I believe that the thermostat plays a strong second part.

Click to expand...

I agree, the cat, t-stat and finely engineered/tweaked stove is what makes it work so well. The big Buck stove(91) is similar size to a BKK and I don't think it comes close to touching a BKK from what I've read on this site.

Yep..the t-stat must make for a longer burn..lol.

I'll have to look for that adjustable disc.