Just a little background on myself. I am 28 and recently married and a new homeowner. I knew I was gonna burn with wood so I put a dare iv insert that I got for cheap in the upstairs fireplace while we were renovating. Now that wer are living in the house we want more heat. I have a clay tile chimney opening downstairs and would like to put a freestanding stove for more heat and longer burns. The englander 30 seems more than enough for our 1800sf house. The thing that worries me is my budget and my chimney. I can afford a stove but not a liner. Should I risk being unhappy with the stove because I have an unlined chimney or should I buy an old cheaper stove to see if the chimney will work. Its about 25ft. Has round clay horizontal that ties to rectangular vertical flue. Also, hurricane irene came through this past summer and left more oak on the ground than could be burned by everyone on hearth. Any advice of what to do? Thanks
Questions from a relatively new burner
- Thread starter Randyhall
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Beer Belly
Minister of Fire
Yeah...grab that wood. I'm relatively new to woodburning myself, welcome to the Hearth and be ready for some learnin'....I've been burning for 4 years, and still learning, this place is an awesome source for info.....oh yeah, let me be the first to say "Dry seasoned wood source makes the difference"Randyhall said:
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
What is the size of the rectangular clay tile? Clay will work but it should be about the same size as the flue recommended for the stove. I think Englander NC30 takes a 6 inch round flue. That is about 28 square inches of cross section. Is the rectangular tile about the same cross sectional area? If it is then you should be OK. How long is the horizontal run? A couple of feet may be OK, but the less horizontal the better. I think I have about three feet and mine is OK.
I have a clay flue and it works fine. Mine is 6.5 inches in diameter round clay and my stove is made for a six inch flue so I am very close to spec. Maybe a steel flue the entire way would work better but my stove seems to burn pretty well most of the time. My flue seems to heat up slowly which is the main complaint I have, but it just means the fire doesn't take off as fast on a cold start as it will on a reload. No big deal.
I'd go get a lot of wood cut and split ASAP. Even if you have all oak it could be pretty decent by fall if you stack it in a good spot and split it small. If lots of oaks came down then lots of other trees must have come down too, so I'd set the other stuff aside for next year and try to save the oak for two years from now.
I'd take a good look at the flue and if it seems in decent shape, properly designed and installed, and about the right size I'd get the Englander and give it a try. If you don't think the flue is safe then I wouldn't put any stove in there.
I have a clay flue and it works fine. Mine is 6.5 inches in diameter round clay and my stove is made for a six inch flue so I am very close to spec. Maybe a steel flue the entire way would work better but my stove seems to burn pretty well most of the time. My flue seems to heat up slowly which is the main complaint I have, but it just means the fire doesn't take off as fast on a cold start as it will on a reload. No big deal.
I'd go get a lot of wood cut and split ASAP. Even if you have all oak it could be pretty decent by fall if you stack it in a good spot and split it small. If lots of oaks came down then lots of other trees must have come down too, so I'd set the other stuff aside for next year and try to save the oak for two years from now.
I'd take a good look at the flue and if it seems in decent shape, properly designed and installed, and about the right size I'd get the Englander and give it a try. If you don't think the flue is safe then I wouldn't put any stove in there.
It's not clear hear what you mean by unlined chimney. Do you mean raw brick with no clay tile liner or do you mean it has a clay tile liner, but lacks a correctly sized for the the 30NC stainless liner?
It's already February, if I was you, I would wait for the summer to install and get the liner. Here in Ma, it has to be installed per code.
Sorry for the vague description, still learning the lingo. It has a clay liner because I cleaned it out and it was in the range of 6X9 ID because I used bricks on a rope. Not sure if this is correct, just basing it off of memory. That is a lot more area than is recommended. I need to get back up there and measure it. My insert draws very well though it just will not hold enough wood or put out enough heat. It has two flues that are even larger. Sounds like I should not expect good results without coughing up the money for a liner as well?
Should I look for something other than oak to cut? What we have down is about 5 oaks to anything else. Theres a few pines and gums and poplars mixed in. Is year old poplar better than say year and a half old oak? I already have about 4 years worth of oak cut and stacked but I figured now was as good of a time as any to be picky.
Should I look for something other than oak to cut? What we have down is about 5 oaks to anything else. Theres a few pines and gums and poplars mixed in. Is year old poplar better than say year and a half old oak? I already have about 4 years worth of oak cut and stacked but I figured now was as good of a time as any to be picky.
Would it be a good idea to go ahead and buy a cheap $150 old mill smoke dragon as ya'll call them? It would be a way of testing out my chimney without risking $1000. Or in this case spending $1000 to find that I need to spend another $1000.
bluedogz
Minister of Fire
Randyhall said:
About a year ago I was in exactly the same position, except with black locust instead of oak. I have an old smoke dragon and was getting 3-4 hour burn times...
Best results came from stacking the wood WAY in advance- I had a BL come down by chance in spring '10, so I C/S/S it right away and am burning it now.
Second... get the steel liner, wait on the stove. That way you'll be up to modern spec. with whatever stove you eventually get. Besides, you may well find a good stove deal on Craigslist or somewhere, but you'll never find a good liner deal there.
Third... spend the $12 or so on a moisture meter. Got mine on Amazon but lots of hardware stores have them too. That way you'll KNOW when any given stack is ready.
Fourth... don't bet on that oak being ready for next winter, Backwoods Savage will be along shortly to reiterate this. Also, see #3.
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
If you are planning to burn next year then go ahead and get some other wood besides oak. If pine, gum, and poplar are the choices then I'd select pine, poplar, and gum in that order. Pine is better than poplar in my opinion, although I'll take poplar if it comes my way. Gum tends to be harder to split than pine or poplar so it would be my last choice.
If your flue is 6x9 inches that is 54 square inches. a six inch round flue has about 28 square inches of opening. You have too much but maybe it would work. At least it is lined and not a 12x12 inch giant opening. I think a few people on here probably have large flues like yours and maybe they'll comment.
If your flue is 6x9 inches that is 54 square inches. a six inch round flue has about 28 square inches of opening. You have too much but maybe it would work. At least it is lined and not a 12x12 inch giant opening. I think a few people on here probably have large flues like yours and maybe they'll comment.
SteveKG
Minister of Fire
You are in very good shape for wood if you have all that available and already 4 yr. supply cut up. I stay minimum two years ahead on my wood, but I only have pine and spruce available and they can season in a few months if split. Not so with oak.
The best solution is to get both a good stove and the steel liner. However, I have to admit I would be someone who would get a stove and try out your existing chimney if $$$ is a concern, and it would be for me. Your idea about getting an inexpensive, older stove and seeing how the chimney works is good, if you can deal with the hassle of then removing it to install a better stove [if you even decide you need or want a better stove....]
At this point, I would not be in too much of a hurry to drop huge bucks on anything. Keep looking for stoves, used or on sale. You could try out your chimney and, if problems arise which appear to be draft related, then worry about saving up for a liner and install. [Or do it yourself.]
The worst that could happen, then, would be that you have to hassle with installing a liner and hooking it up to the stove and deciding on chimney cap set-up. If money is not a real problem, then whatever you decide will be ok.
The best solution is to get both a good stove and the steel liner. However, I have to admit I would be someone who would get a stove and try out your existing chimney if $$$ is a concern, and it would be for me. Your idea about getting an inexpensive, older stove and seeing how the chimney works is good, if you can deal with the hassle of then removing it to install a better stove [if you even decide you need or want a better stove....]
At this point, I would not be in too much of a hurry to drop huge bucks on anything. Keep looking for stoves, used or on sale. You could try out your chimney and, if problems arise which appear to be draft related, then worry about saving up for a liner and install. [Or do it yourself.]
The worst that could happen, then, would be that you have to hassle with installing a liner and hooking it up to the stove and deciding on chimney cap set-up. If money is not a real problem, then whatever you decide will be ok.
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