Getting started on a budget; buying a used stove

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

Hi, this is my first post, but hopefully I'll get set up and stick around.

My husband and I have been considering putting in a wood stove for over a year now. We need to do it as cheaply as we possibly can, which won't be easy since we will have to run flue. (My husband can install it, but we will have to buy the pipe.) AND a chainsaw, AND a hearth pad, etc. etc.

House is circa 1910, added onto a gazillion times, leaky as hell. We had central heating--LP from a basement furnace-- when we moved in, but it was very inefficient and the house was NEVER warm. When the furnace broke down, we installed blue-flame heaters in 2 central locations and saved a bundle on LP, but we'd really rather heat with wood.

I am rambling. Sorry. I actually have a couple of questions I'll get around to sooner or later. First of all, I'd REALLY REALLY like to get out of this for under 2 grand... maybe I have been smoking too much crack? We intend to make the hearth pad ourselves, my husband will install stove and flue, but we still have to buy chainsaw, stove, and fllue. I have my heart set on a stove I can cook on. House is approx. 1800 sq ft, one storey, not well laid out at all (it is a 3 room bungalow that was added onto so many times that there are 5 different foundations and it now resembles a ranch house; from this description of our lovely home you can probably guess why we are on a budget here)... perhaps 1200 of that we can heat with the stove, the remainder we lease to a tenant and he will continue to heat with LP.

So... am I nuts? Is this impossible? Right now I am looking at a used cast iron enamellled Waterford Trinity in good shape for around $800... I like everything about this stove that I see but obviously have not used it. Of course that's a huge chunk of our 2 grand, so those $100 ancient cookstoves are oh so tempting "to get us started" but my hunch is we'd really be watching $$ literally go up in smoke here as something like that we'd want to replace immediately, probably. A third alternative, of course, is goig the $300 cheapo sheet metal route from Lowe's, but these things just look so darn cheap and ugly to me... don't know if I can do it.

Any thoughts/advice sorely needed and appreciated. One thing I haven't figured out yet is how to tell if a stove has been over-fired without seeing it in person. Is this possible to tell from a photo? This bit scares me.

I'm all typed out... I am excited to have found this forum and hope I will soon be a wood stove operator and spending more time here>

squngel

btw, I live in Indiana & would be willing to travel to adjacent states to pick one up if anyone knows of anything decent for sale in this vicinity. I keep seeing great stuff on ebay on the east coast... it's just too far for us to p/u

coldinnj · Dec 1, 2006

What is the length of your chimney? A large cost can be the liner for the chimney. Used stove not a problem. Even a fairly current model. What area of the country are you in?

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

the only existing chimney is at the end of an el. It has been lined, because it was used to vent the basement furnace, but it is in such a horrible location that it would only heat one room-- the bedroom-- so we are not even considering it.... we want to centrally locate and run flue thru attic to roof peak... probably 12 feet after it passes through (dropped) ceiling. This will be the biggest expense, I think. We live in indiana.

There is actually an el-cheapo located fairly near here listed on ebay right now, but I am wary of it because the seller says it is a "Warnock Hersey" and I thought they were a certification org., not a manufacturer. Also, the shot of the interior looks rust-colored and she says it is fire-brick lined.... it looks okay from the outside but I don't know if this weird coloration on the interior is normal or a product of over-firing.

BrotherBart · Dec 1, 2006

squngel said:
the only existing chimney is at the end of an el. It has been lined, because it was used to vent the basement furnace, but it is in such a horrible location that it would only heat one room-- the bedroom-- so we are not even considering it.... we want to centrally locate and run flue thru attic to roof peak... probably 12 feet after it passes through (dropped) ceiling. This will be the biggest expense, I think. We live in indiana.

There is actually an el-cheapo located fairly near here listed on ebay right now, but I am wary of it because the seller says it is a "Warnock Hersey" and I thought they were a certification org., not a manufacturer. Also, the shot of the interior looks rust-colored and she says it is fire-brick lined.... it looks okay from the outside but I don't know if this weird coloration on the interior is normal or a product of over-firing.

The eBay stove you are looking at is made by U.S. Stove Company, model 1821. They have an updated version available now:

http://www.usstove.com/cgi-bin/csvsearchProdindivid.pl?ID=141

Tractor Supply and some hardware stores sell them.

coldinnj · Dec 1, 2006

Price out what you need for the Flue system first. When you see what you have left it may help you decide on options.
As to the coloring that can be caused by many things. Personaly I would not purchase a used stove "sight unseen". I would ALWAYS carefully examine it first. Remeber we are talking about putting fire and products of combustion inside your home. The condition of the unit is critical. There are sources to save a lot on the flue pipe. As too the stove if you can go and examine it first, ok. Otherwise I would look elsewhere.

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

BrotherBart said:
squngel said:

the only existing chimney is at the end of an el. It has been lined, because it was used to vent the basement furnace, but it is in such a horrible location that it would only heat one room-- the bedroom-- so we are not even considering it.... we want to centrally locate and run flue thru attic to roof peak... probably 12 feet after it passes through (dropped) ceiling. This will be the biggest expense, I think. We live in indiana.

There is actually an el-cheapo located fairly near here listed on ebay right now, but I am wary of it because the seller says it is a "Warnock Hersey" and I thought they were a certification org., not a manufacturer. Also, the shot of the interior looks rust-colored and she says it is fire-brick lined.... it looks okay from the outside but I don't know if this weird coloration on the interior is normal or a product of over-firing.

Click to expand...

The eBay stove you are looking at is made by U.S. Stove Company, model 1821. They have an updated version available now:

http://www.usstove.com/cgi-bin/csvsearchProdindivid.pl?ID=141

Tractor Supply and some hardware stores sell them.

The one I am looking at appears to have a cast iron door, not glass. it almost looks like a little Fisher or Timberline, but she says it is only 5 years old. LOL, I just realized her reply to me said the label read "U.S. Stone Company".... it never occured to me that it was a typo. What is your opinion of that interior shot? This would be a heck of a bargain if it is a decent stove.

BrotherBart · Dec 1, 2006

Can't tell condition from a pic. The rust could be superficial or it could be such that the stove is a mess. Given the thin steel construction of the stove I wouldn't buy if without getting a look at it. That is the "Forester" model that was a non-EPA stove they made before the current EPA stove.

Specs:

Fuel Type Wood
Dimensions 25"H x 24"W x 21"D
Shipping Weight 171lbs.
Log Length 18"
Flue Collar Size 6"
Output 10,800 - 33,200 BTU's /hr
Heating Capacity 955 sq. ft.
Model 1821/1821Q Forester

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

BrotherBart said:
Can't tell condition from a pic. The rust could be superficial or it could be such that the stove is a mess. Given the thin steel construction of the stove I wouldn't buy if without getting a look at it. That is the "Forester" model that was a non-EPA stove they made before the current EPA stove.

Specs:

Fuel Type Wood
Dimensions 25"H x 24"W x 21"D
Shipping Weight 171lbs.
Log Length 18"
Flue Collar Size 6"
Output 10,800 - 33,200 BTU's /hr
Heating Capacity 955 sq. ft.
Model 1821/1821Q Forester

Ick. If I am going to by something that ugly I want it to at least be EPA-certified. I cannot thank you enough for the info.

Actually I just did a little looking at double-wall prices and I think we may be able to get out of that for under the $1000 or so I'd previously estimated, which is great news

The nice thing is that I have all winter to collect the parts... in spring we start chopping, and do the install in summer. It is nice to not feel rushed. Funny thing, it started snowing here for the first time this winter as I was typing the first post... had to run out and throw the plastic back over my cold frame because it blew offf three times.

begreen · Dec 1, 2006

Best not to be pennywise and pound foolish here. Otherwise you'll be spending money all over again in a few years for repairs and the like.

I'd recommend putting in an excellent flue system. This investment will pay off many times over. Without knowing specifics I would allow $600 for DYI. Be sure to follow instructions to the the tee and don't scrimp here. Stick to code all the way.

As to the stove, the Waterford may look nice, but could be hard to get parts for. At one point this company had a decent reputation, but that deteriorated. I would stick with a brand that is easy to get parts for rebuilding and practical. For cast iron that probably means Vermont Castings or Jotul. But be careful and by all means have someone who really knows stoves help you with the purchase. Otherwise it could cost the price of the stove to rebuild. One thing to remember is that you can't heat with looks. The stove may look deadly beautiful, but is stone cold until it's warming. The real beauty comes when it's 10 degrees outside, blowing a gale, and you are inside snug and warm.

I'd strongly consider going for a new stove. Look at the Consolidated Dutchwest stoves and Englander to start with. These can be bought new for around $1000 and by doing that you may have a dealer assisting you with installation design and service. Plus, you won't be spending potentially another $2-500 to repair the unit. Also you might see if there is a Napoleon dealer in the area. The model 1400 may work for you. Word for saving on a new stove - keep it black, keep it simple, fancy trim costs. If it's not perfect, in the summer you can drape some fabric over it if you like and put some pictures and a flower vase on it.

If I had to defer a purchase for the first year in order to stay on budget, it would be the saw. FWIW, I picked up my chainsaw (Stihl 290) used on eBay. It took awhile to find one in excellent condition for a good price, but in the end I got a very lightly used saw with 2 bars (16" and 20") and 5 chains for about $170 shipped. Word here is be patient and know what you are buying. And be sure to budget for the safety gear needed to run this saw. Steel-tipped boots, ear and eye protectors, helmet if felling trees, and chaps.

http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productline.cfm?category=16&sc=33&pl=72
http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/Webshare/wood/wood stoves/1100PL_1400PL.html
http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/wood_stoves.html

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

BeGreen said:
Best not to be pennywise and pound foolish here. Otherwise you'll be spending money all over again in a few years for repairs and the like.

I'd recommend putting in an excellent flue system. This investment will pay off many times over. Without knowing specifics I would allow $600 for DYI. Be sure to follow instructions to the the tee and don't scrimp here. Stick to code all the way.

As to the stove, the Waterford may look nice, but could be hard to get parts for. At one point this company had a decent reputation, but that deteriorated. I would stick with a brand that is easy to get parts for rebuilding and practical. For cast iron that probably means Vermont Castings or Jotul. But be careful and by all means have someone who really knows stoves help you with the purchase. Otherwise it could cost the price of the stove to rebuild. One thing to remember is that you can't heat with looks. The stove may look deadly beautiful, but is stone cold until it's warming. The real beauty comes when it's 10 degrees outside, blowing a gale, and you are inside snug and warm.

I'd strongly consider going for a new stove. Look at the Consolidated Dutchwest stoves and Englander to start with. These can be bought new for around $1000 and by doing that you may have a dealer assisting you with installation design and service. Plus, you won't be spending potentially another $2-500 to repair the unit. Also you might see if there is a Napoleon dealer in the area. The model 1400 may work for you. Word for saving on a new stove - keep it black, keep it simple, fancy trim costs. If it's not perfect, in the summer you can drape some fabric over it if you like and put some pictures and a flower vase on it.

If I had to defer a purchase for the first year in order to stay on budget, it would be the saw. FWIW, I picked up my chainsaw (Stihl 290) used on eBay. It took awhile to find one in excellent condition for a good price, but in the end I got a very lightly used saw with 2 bars (16" and 20") and 5 chains for about $170 shipped. Word here is be patient and know what you are buying. And be sure to budget for the safety gear needed to run this saw. Steel-tipped boots, ear and eye protectors, helmet if felling trees, and chaps.

http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productline.cfm?category=16&sc=33&pl=72
http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/Webshare/wood/wood stoves/1100PL_1400PL.html
http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/wood_stoves.html

Wow, thank you for all the great advice. We will absolutely be doing the flue to code and by the book, straight up with all the appropriate flashing and gee-gaws. I have no interest in catching the house on fire, or installing somehing that will be difficult to maintain or won't properly vent.

As for the Waterford, I actually would prefer one in standard black cast. This is actually a bit frilly for my taste and I'd rather not have to deal with chipped enamel in the future.

I will investigate the Dutchwest, Englander, and Napolean-- but isn't Dutchwest a part of Vermont Castings now? I have read so many bad things about Vermont castings stoves. Our local dealertold me this had much to do with their commitment to cats in the past, but that they are moving away from those and their reputation was now improving. Is this true? I have also heard their customer service stinks, though when I think of buying a used stove for almost the same amount of money with no customer service, perhaps I could live with that. If I could spend any amount of money, I'd probably buy a Jotul, but the only one in my price range is the 602 and it's just a little too small I think. Btw, I don't think I mentioned it but we do not want a cat.

Thank you again. You've given me more research to do

(I've been doing research all along, but this is the first time I've had the chance to actually communicate with other users/consumers. Some things you just can't find out looking at websites or talking to dealers.)

z-man · Dec 1, 2006

I like saving money too!

My wife and I bought a used Lopi Freedom wood insert for $1200, and it came with a blower and surround panels. Retail (new) was around 2500, it was only used 1 season and in like new condition. Spent an extra $12 for a can of touch up paint and now it looks new. We then got install quotes, ranging from 1300 to 2500 for labor and materials. Instead, we bought the liner on Ebay (paid 469 for 35' of 6" 316Ti, only needed 30' so we could have saved $30)

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-X-30-Stainles...hZ001QQcategoryZ20598QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Our local stove dealer recommended and isntaller who charged $425 for the install.

Grand total = 1200+12+469+425 = $2106. We are thrilled with that.

Other expenses:
We use a SuperSplitter from lowes, I like it much better that my 8lb maul and use it exclusively now for my hardwoods. about 25 bucks.

I have a 16" Homelight Ranger chainsaw from Home Depot, $129-10% off (we buy coupons on Ebay) = $117. I have cut 5-6 cords with this saw, it is a bit small at times but works fine and starts like nothing.

Wood = free. We have trees on property and my neighbors have let me clear a few also.

The blower is key for me in terms of rapid heat output. I am still amazed at how warm we can heat the house vs how little wood we actually need. Best item I've purchased in years, I use it alot, feel good using it, and like the piece of mind if we ever lose power.

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

z-man said:
I like saving money too!

My wife and I bought a used Lopi Freedom wood insert for $1200, and it came with a blower and surround panels. Retail (new) was around 2500, it was only used 1 season and in like new condition. Spent an extra $12 for a can of touch up paint and now it looks new. We then got install quotes, ranging from 1300 to 2500 for labor and materials. Instead, we bought the liner on Ebay (paid 469 for 35' of 6" 316Ti, only needed 30' so we could have saved $30)

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-X-30-Stainles...hZ001QQcategoryZ20598QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Our local stove dealer recommended and isntaller who charged $425 for the install.

Grand total = 1200+12+469+425 = $2106. We are thrilled with that.

Other expenses:
We use a SuperSplitter from lowes, I like it much better that my 8lb maul and use it exclusively now for my hardwoods. about 25 bucks.

I have a 16" Homelight Ranger chainsaw from Home Depot, $129-10% off (we buy coupons on Ebay) = $117. I have cut 5-6 cords with this saw, it is a bit small at times but works fine and starts like nothing.

Wood = free. We have trees on property and my neighbors have let me clear a few also.

The blower is key for me in terms of rapid heat output. I am still amazed at how warm we can heat the house vs how little wood we actually need. Best item I've purchased in years, I use it alot, feel good using it, and like the piece of mind if we ever lose power.

Very nice. Our situation is quite different (not using existing fireplace or chimney), but nice to see you got out of it cheaply nonetheless. SuperSplitter... okay I'm taking a look at that next time at Lowe's. Free wood- Yes! My parents have 500 acres nearby

My brother-in-law says that if we cut "downed" trees up this spring, they should be ready by next winter. I hope he is right. There are plenty of downed trees on that farm.

BrotherBart · Dec 1, 2006

If you think the Century stoves are ugly then you will probably think that all plate steel stoves such as the Englanders, Napoleons and the plate steel Dutchwest stoves are ugly also.

Until you try to keep one of those cast stoves with all of the nooks and crannies clean that is. Especially the matte black ones.

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

BrotherBart said:
If you think the Century stoves are ugly then you will probably think that all plate steel stoves such as the Englanders, Napoleons and the plate steel Dutchwest stoves are ugly also.

Until you try to keep one of those cast stoves with all of the nooks and crannies clean that is. Especially the matte black ones.

Yes, I think the Englanders and Napoleons are pretty ugly, but I like the Lopis, I'm not sure why. I like the Dutchwest models I've seen, but they look more like cast. I am really hell-bent on cooking on this thing, so unless someone can convince me the plate steel ones will cook as well as a cast, I am going to prefer a cast iron.

begreen · Dec 1, 2006

I can't give you any reason why a plate steel stove wouldn't cook on as well as a cast stove. As a matter of fact there is usually more level surface for multiple pots and pans on a steel stove and easier to clean up if there is a spill.

We've got several folks hanging out here that are happy with the Dutchwest stoves. Hope they speak up. We're watching VC, they had some bad times a while back, but they seemed to have turned a corner and are back to making good products. I think the CDW stoves look very nice and I'm a castiron owner.

BrotherBart · Dec 1, 2006

I have both. All of the cooking during the seven day power outage last year was done on the steel stove. Larger cooking surface. Everything from eggs, bacon and coffee to a pot of stew and a chuck roast. Hot biscuits in a power outage just seemed to taste better. Stored the fridge and freezer stuff in a cooler in a snow bank.

Go with what ya like to look at.

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

Thanks BeGreen. Since you own a cast (I want your stove!) your positive take on the plate steel impresses me. By CDW do you mean cast DutchWest? As for cooking I suppose I am worried about retention and distribution, though the more I think about it, I will not be baking on top this thing, so maybe for stovetop cooking consistency it isn't so important.

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

BrotherBart said:
I have both. All of the cooking during the seven day power outage last year was done on the steel stove. Larger cooking surface. Everything from eggs, bacon and coffee to a pot of stew and a chuck roast. Hot biscuits in a power outage just seemed to taste better. Stored the fridge and freezer stuff in a cooler in a snow bank.

Go with what ya like to look at.

Okay, you just convinced me. Thanks! This reminds me two years ago I tried to convince husband to unplug refrigerator in winter, it seemed such a waste, as our indoor kitchen temp was around 50 and the outdoor temp was freezing. Sadly, he didn't go for it. Maybe I'll try again this year

carpniels · Dec 1, 2006

Hi squngel,

That is a nice undertaking ahead of you. Sorry you do not live closer. I have a used Jotul Castine in perfect condition that heats 1,600 sq. ft. which would have been ideal for you. I have bought 3 used stoves last year and all worked out fine. Make sure you check them or at least get a good brand. Check the pennysaver too. And if you can, wait until spring. You can get a better deal when the warm weather is coming.

Indeed, do the chimney according to code and specs. Don't burn down your castle.

I bought a new Craftsman chainsaw for $130 when I first started cutting wood. It worked really well. Keep the chain sharp and you will have no problems. Poulan, or other cheaper brands, same thing. You can always update in a few years.

I cooked on my stove and it really does not matter which one you get. All my stove got up to 600 or more degrees. The flat top plate steel stoves are much easier to clean though. A flat piece of soapstone on the stove gives a nice surface for cooking directly on the stove. You do not need a pan anymore. Just slap the steaks on and you are good to go.

Good luck

carpniels

begreen · Dec 1, 2006

squngel said:
BrotherBart said:

I have both. All of the cooking during the seven day power outage last year was done on the steel stove. Larger cooking surface. Everything from eggs, bacon and coffee to a pot of stew and a chuck roast. Hot biscuits in a power outage just seemed to taste better. Stored the fridge and freezer stuff in a cooler in a snow bank.

Go with what ya like to look at.

Click to expand...

Okay, you just convinced me. Thanks! This reminds me two years ago I tried to convince husband to unplug refrigerator in winter, it seemed such a waste, as our indoor kitchen temp was around 50 and the outdoor temp was freezing. Sadly, he didn't go for it. Maybe I'll try again this year

Yes CDW = Cons. Dutchwest

Do you have any cabinets on an outside wall? In older homes they used to have a pair of screened holes in the back of the cabinet that went through the wall. A good setup would have a simple sliding piece of wood that you could use to regulate the cold. We had one of these and loved it. Kept a very nice cool 35-45 degrees in the winter once you got the hang of it. Now we have a deck box on the porch that we use to store stuff in like apples, potatoes, etc..

squngel · Dec 1, 2006

BeGreen said:
[Yes CDW = Cons. Dutchwest

Do you have any cabinets on an outside wall? In older homes they used to have a pair of screened holes in the back of the cabinet that went through the wall. A good setup would have a simple sliding piece of wood that you could use to regulate the cold. We had one of these and loved it. Kept a very nice cool 35-45 degrees in the winter once you got the hang of it. Now we have a deck box on the porch that we use to store stuff in like apples, potatoes, etc..

Unfortunately the guys who owned the house before us not only turned the front porch into a bathroom, they built a room on behind the (old) kitchen sink and cabinets (effectively eliminating our only southern exposure while they were at it). I bet our cabinets had those at one time... they have a potato bin. If nowhere else I bet there's one behind that. What a neat and simple thing.

Andre B. · Dec 1, 2006

I have been burning a new Drolet HT-2000 for about 4 weeks now, and really like it.
http://www.drolet.ca/product.aspx?CategoId=1&Id=208
Rest of the line.
http://www.drolet.ca/products.aspx?CategoId=1

Yesterday I left the house at 6AM, house was 73°F outside was about 8° high temp during the day was about 20° with a little wind but not bad. When I was getting ready to leave there was about 2" of coals in the stove and it was good and hot put in two 5" diameter logs and a 3" log on top, 18" long elm. Had some nice stable flames going with the air turned down.
Was a clear day and my place has enough windows that as long as the wind is not bad it will stay warm even at 0°. At 6PM the house was 70° and dropping, stove was warm, you could hold your hand on it, with a few coals left in the ashes. A boy scout could have gotten a fire going with the coals that were left but it was faster to shovel them out with the ash and build a new fire.

I have to admit this is a lot better stove then the homebuilt box stove it replaced. It does take longer to get going from cold but also looks like that may not be needed as often. Also needs an entirely different fire building technique, still getting used to that.
____________
Andre' B.

begreen · Dec 1, 2006

squngel, one thing I didn't mention that you need to consider carefully are clearances. I might have gone for a VC Encore cat, but there was no way I could make it work due to clearances. Visit the websites that I gave you a link to once you narrow in your choice. The Castine has good close clearances with double-wall pipe. FWIW, I would try to figure out how to get Carpneils Castine. It's a good deal from someone you can trust. Indiana to Rome NY should be an easy drive in good weather.

elkimmeg · Dec 2, 2006

I have read so many bad things about Vermont castings stoves. Our local dealertold me this had much to do with their commitment to cats in the past, but that they are moving away from those and their reputation was now improving. Is this true? I have also heard their customer service stinks

One reason you hear more about VC stoves is they are found in more households that any other manufacturer they sell 50,000 stoves a year logic tells you not everbody can pe pleased or a few manufacturing probless arise. say for example there is a 2% rate of dissatisfaction or problem stoves that's 1000 posible complaints. Say harman makes 4000 stoves
that 80 stoves using the same precentage which do you think most will hear about the 1000 stoves or 80 Just look at the current post here harman has had its shares of dgrultled customers
I attribute most of them to newbi users not grasping what it takes to run the stoves. In the past dealers sold VC cat stoves that direct connected in fireplace flues. Aa cat stove as well as modern secondary burn stoves employ secondary burn chambers that damper off the primary route. This extends the burning cycle and re-burns smoke and its particulates in a secondary combustion providing more heat and cleaner burning. A downside is secondary burning requires a good draft and burning well seasoned wood. they do not work directly connected in large fireplace flues exposed to outside walls. Enter the dissatisfied customer and complaints to the dealers. The dealers did not take the time to explain this but were interested in the sale when complaints mounted, it was easier for them to stop selling Cat stoves then qualify the installation or educate the customer.
I have contact in VC the head of plant opperations in Bethel VT. Acccording to him, VC is working or installing a super effecient cat coupled with its everburn Technology and thermoaticaly controled burn chamber the will be the cleanest and most effecient stove ever produced. Your dealer is wrong ,Cats are not going away. VC now has the cleanest stoves ever tested by the EPA.
We have a manufacture rep from Englander that has an original cat stove going strong 13 years without a cat replacement. Today off replacement cats have lenghtened the burn range 25% more that the original OEM cats at 50% of their replacement cost with a 7 year warranty. Cat combustion is evident in just about every car drived today. The technology is not going to dissappear because one dealertold you that.

At least 10 members have rebuilt their old VC stoves this fall season If they were as bad as this dealer implyed then why would one go threw this effort? If purchasing a used stove buy one where parts are still available The trinity you mentioned has no parts support by Lenox In USA. Lenox announced disconuation of parts support for older discontinued stoves. Please check out the wiki section of this forum I detailed a primer for newbi stove purchasers ans a follow up of what to look for in purchasong a used stove.
Your situation withan interior chimney you have the ideal draft setup for a cat stove. Should you see a Decent brand name Cats stove and a resonable price and condition, there is no reason Is should not opperate at peak conditions.

Since someone mentioned Dutchwest we have a post running pages long detailing all the ins and outs of everburn technology we als have an epic debate concerning Cat vs non cat stoves
where you can read threw and draw you own conclusions.
DustcWest there are 3 different stoves some dutchwest are cat stoves othere are Everburn non cat stoves then there are the cast iron models and cheaper plate steel ones. Finally VC makes an economy line of plate steel stoves called Century., They are phasing out the centry lie and will call them the plate steel dutchwest stoves they are that sillilar. All their plate steeel stoves are imported into USA All cast iron stoves are made in Bethel VT . If considering Economy do not overlook the Englander stoves. BB can better fill you in on his Made in VA,

It seems every week we hear the same BS that VC quality has slipped and someone dissing cat stoves. If quality had slipped, then please explain how R&D keeps comming up with the cleanest stoves ever tested by the EPA. The only stoves that pulled ahead of VC cat stoves for clean burning are again VC stoves with Everburn technology. If Cats were that bad, then why do R&D incorperatating the cat into the Everburn technology? We have quite a few happy members burning Dutch west stoves and certury stoves. There are a lot of quality stoves out there to consider. One might even conside a PE stove. that should keep this thread going till next week. Oh! there is also only one chain saw to purchase that is a huskey.
The Husky Stihl debate is tilll going on in the gear room add makita to that mix.

Welcome aboard

coldinnj · Dec 2, 2006

To clarify: Not all the complaints on Harman are about the quality of the stoves but rather about some of the dealers. If I felt the quality was bad I would not have bought one. Also if a stove is being purchased used. Then the dealership may not be such an issue. Except for the blower most of these stoves have no mechanical / moving parts. Therefore if the metal smithing is done at a high standard and normal care is given there is no reason to "rebuild" a stove every few years. My coal furnace has not been rebuilt in over 30 years. All I have replaced so far is the blower motor (rebuilt the old one meanwhile), filters and the stack pipe (as I was too lazy to clean it out after the season and so the coal ash / acid ate it). So to simplify. A good quality used stove should be fine if inspected for abuse.
Engineering and understanding of thermal dynamics has not grown by leaps and bounds in the last 30 years. Albeit we have made improvements but measured ones for sure.
Remember the law of diminishing returns on your purchase.

Getting started on a budget; buying a used stove

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