Heat pump users?

We replaced our central AC with a heat pump last year. We used it for heat when needed in October and all November and December and then switched over to pellets in January. It works well above 32 degrees or so. It is a different type of heat. My house wasn't as warm as it was when we used oil or the pellet stove. I found I would keep the temp on 72 just to feel comfortable. My bill for December increased approx 150 over my normal electric bill without heat or air. Our house is now completely electric unless we use the pellet stove.

I have two heat pumps. One for upstairs in an older, 12 SEER unit that I hardly ever use now that we have an 'empty nest'. For the main part of the house, I have a 15 SEER d.c. drive heat pump that I use. The first year that I had my pellet stoves, I experimented with using them whenever it got down to around 50 degrees to see how the stoves operated. I used more in pellet cost than I had used in electric in prior years. I have a whole house electrical monitoring system called THE ENERGY DETECTIVE that gives me a pretty accurate reading on real-time electric usage so I could see and compare costs. I burned 3 1/2 tons of pellets that year! This is in Georgia, mind you. It does get cold down here and that year was particularly cold with days in a row below freezing and approaching zero. Since then we have been milder and I just use the stoves if the temp gets to 30 or below. I find that it is about break even at 40 degrees but below that it's a question of if you want to hear the heat pump running continuously pumping out luke warm air or the pellet stove creating uneven temps throughout the house. We opt for uneven temps but warmth!
Now with electrical costs going up, pellet stoves are making more and more sense. What makes even MORE sense are coal stoves since BTU'S are much higher per pound and the appliances have taken giant steps in efficiency and looks. I see that you are in Ohio so you surely know that 90% of your electricity was generated using coal, which is being killed by 'The One We Do Not Name'. Your costs are going to 'necessarily skyrocket'.
For shoulder season, I would recommend the highest SEER heat pump you can afford and perhaps even geothermal if you can find someone who will not **** you on the installation costs. Then I would seriously look at coal stoker stoves from
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/
http://www.readingstove.com/heating-stoves/coal-stoves/swatara-stove.php
http://www.keystoker.com/products.php#as

Do not believe all the crap about coal that you read. It's no dirtier than pellets if you learn how to use it. The heat is much stronger and uniform. Ashes also can be handled cleanly if you do it properly. If you're a 'save the world' type rather than a 'save your family budget' type, then you've made your choice.

Speaking of duct work losses, this is the only cost comparison tool that I've found that gives you choices of duct work insulation values for heat pumps of various kinds.

http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm

We have a geothermal unit a little different still a heat pump. Cheaper to operate then burning pellets. Cost a lot more to install then a stove though

Take a look at the mini-splits Fujitsu and Mitsubishi they are rated to -5 F. You'd have to read at what efficiency they operate at those temps cant remember.

Only the Mitsubishi models called "Hyper-Heat" have full rated heat output down to +5F. If your electric rate is less than about 10 cents per KWHr, the largest HyperHeat minisplit, 36000 BTU (about $5700) might make some financial sense, with a break-even point of 5 to 8 years. That assumes that you can install it yourself, otherwise the break-even point gets too long (10 years plus)...then it makes no sense to get a heatpump. The break-even point of course depends on your current fuel cost ($ per BTU) as a comparision.

Umm what's a "heat pump" In simple easy to understand, paint by number language??

kenstogie said:

Umm what's a "heat pump" In simple easy to understand, paint by number language??

Click to expand...

your refrigerator..

tjnamtiw said:

I have two heat pumps. One for upstairs in an older, 12 SEER unit that I hardly ever use now that we have an 'empty nest'. For the main part of the house, I have a 15 SEER d.c. drive heat pump that I use. The first year that I had my pellet stoves, I experimented with using them whenever it got down to around 50 degrees to see how the stoves operated. I used more in pellet cost than I had used in electric in prior years. I have a whole house electrical monitoring system called THE ENERGY DETECTIVE that gives me a pretty accurate reading on real-time electric usage so I could see and compare costs. I burned 3 1/2 tons of pellets that year! This is in Georgia, mind you. It does get cold down here and that year was particularly cold with days in a row below freezing and approaching zero. Since then we have been milder and I just use the stoves if the temp gets to 30 or below. I find that it is about break even at 40 degrees but below that it's a question of if you want to hear the heat pump running continuously pumping out luke warm air or the pellet stove creating uneven temps throughout the house. We opt for uneven temps but warmth!
Now with electrical costs going up, pellet stoves are making more and more sense. What makes even MORE sense are coal stoves since BTU'S are much higher per pound and the appliances have taken giant steps in efficiency and looks. I see that you are in Ohio so you surely know that 90% of your electricity was generated using coal, which is being killed by 'The One We Do Not Name'. Your costs are going to 'necessarily skyrocket'.
For shoulder season, I would recommend the highest SEER heat pump you can afford and perhaps even geothermal if you can find someone who will not **** you on the installation costs. Then I would seriously look at coal stoker stoves from
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/
http://www.readingstove.com/heating-stoves/coal-stoves/swatara-stove.php
http://www.keystoker.com/products.php#as

Do not believe all the crap about coal that you read. It's no dirtier than pellets if you learn how to use it. The heat is much stronger and uniform. Ashes also can be handled cleanly if you do it properly. If you're a 'save the world' type rather than a 'save your family budget' type, then you've made your choice.

Click to expand...

This is what I have found as well. If its below 40 my pellet stove is much more efficient than the heat pump. If its above 40 my pellet stove will run you out of the house. When its below freezing the heat pump does not really warm your house. It just keeps you from freezing to death. and then the backup heat kicks in and the elec meter starts spinning really fast. Best to use my pellet stove when under 40.

And you are correct about the coal. Great heat. Ask anyone in WV what they think about " The One We Do Not Name"?????

In 2011 put in central air and a heat pump. I don't regret it and it works great. My house is all electric too. I went away for a week in February and heated the house with the heat pump. I use the heat pump for as long as I can then put on the pellet stove. My heat pump is pretty economical too. Pellets aren't the great buy they used to be and all the dust the stove generates.

Funny you should ask; I just had my heat pump installed this weekend to replace the a/c unit. My insert will be my main source of heat, but even that needs help now and then, so the heat pump will be my backup. After installing the heating elements (for when it goes below freezing), my installer cranked it up to 85 for a test. Now, I know it was warmer this weekend (70 degrees), but boy did the heat in the house come up fast! If it were the oil fired baseboard system, it would have taken over an hour to get up to temp. I don't know what it will cost me this winter, but I am sure it will be less than what I forked over for oil last year. I used wood heat as primary, and with the domestic how water adding on to it, It still cost my over $1500 last season. With oil standing at $4.00 a gallon, I think I made the right decision.

I have two heat pumps, oil baseboard and my pellet boiler now tied into the oil baseboard. Use the heat pumps till temps are about 40 or below. Oil is used only when it is below 40 and I am away for more than a couple of days. Last year was the first full year with the pellet boiler. I burned 6 tons of pellets and about 45 gallons of oil (I was away for a week in February). Prior to the pellet boiler I'd burn approx. 1000 gallons of fuel oil. My heat pumps were replaced a couple of years ago with SEER 14 units. They work pretty good. I have SEER 18 at a place I own at the beach. They work great and cost less to operate. If you are replacing the AC go for the heat pumps and do SEER 18. My heating contractor said they now have units as high as SEER 26 but I would let someone else experiment with that technology.

firebroad said:

Funny you should ask; I just had my heat pump installed this weekend to replace the a/c unit. My insert will be my main source of heat, but even that needs help now and then, so the heat pump will be my backup. After installing the heating elements (for when it goes below freezing), my installer cranked it up to 85 for a test. Now, I know it was warmer this weekend (70 degrees), but boy did the heat in the house come up fast! If it were the oil fired baseboard system, it would have taken over an hour to get up to temp. I don't know what it will cost me this winter, but I am sure it will be less than what I forked over for oil last year. I used wood heat as primary, and with the domestic how water adding on to it, It still cost my over $1500 last season. With oil standing at $4.00 a gallon, I think I made the right decision.

Click to expand...

Granted our winters are different but don't think that is the type of heat you will get when it is under 40. Turning on the heat pump when it is 70 outside will not give you anything close to real winter heat.

What everyone is saying is true. When it hits 40 ish outside the heat pump is much less efficient and then the electric heat strips inside the heat pump kicks in (destroying any savings you would have had). It's not like the heat pump is 100% on every degree until it hits 40. It's a gradual decline so if you get cold easy, then maybe the heat pump will only keep you "warm" until it hits 50 outside.

I've had a few heat pumps from different manufactures and all the same results. They are cheap, cheap, cold, cold when used as AC but as heat, not so much. I live in Tennessee when 32 is "deathly" cold to us and I will never have just a heat pump for warmth. We see temps in the teens a few times a year and the heat pump is utterly worthless with it in the teens and I can hear it begging to be turned off because it struggles to keep the house warm to 66 when it is teens outside.

Also, it is a different feeling of heat. It's not as stout a warmth as pellets/wood, not even close.

mithesaint said:

Anyone using a heat pump along with the stove? I'm due to replace the AC unit, and was considering spending a few extra bucks and getting a heat pump instead.

It would be nice to have during the shoulder season, and I'd prefer to have the stove off when the whole family is home and awake. The noise of the fans is mildly annoying, and we have friends with small kids that have never been around a stove before. My nephew burned his hand last year, and I felt terrible about it. My kids are pretty good, but all it takes is a poorly timed trip and fall incident.

I know they're not terribly efficient below 30 degrees, but supposed to be pretty good above that.

So...anyone using one? Is it worth it?

Click to expand...

I also have a heat pump and like many of the posters have already stated, it works well down to around 35 degrees or so. It's extremely quiet and you struggle to know when its on or off. That being said, the average 3 ton heat pump (15 seer) and air handling system costs approximately $8 -10k. Furthermore, the average life expectancy out of these units is only about 10 years.

I also just installed a Fujitsu Halcyon rated at 17 SEER. Ever since, the weather has been perfect so I have no usage data. From these posts, it sounds like it was a good idea.

The mini-splits and their "inverter" technology are really taking a hold in the market right now. I also have the Fujitsu Halcyon system. I have an 18000 btu and a 9,000 btu being pushed by a single outside compressor/inverter that works extremely well both heating and cooling.

DV said:

And you are correct about the coal. Great heat. Ask anyone in WV what they think about " The One We Do Not Name"?????

Click to expand...

And yet they elect a Dem as governor....??? My grandfather was a 9 yr old breakerboy at Monongah in 1907. He was sick that day and his mom kept him home. 3 uncles were lost in the worst disaster in US history.

The mini-splits have really become popular but I believe that there is no 'emergency heat' mode on them for when the temp gets too low. Correct?

Cincinnati Kid said:

I also have a heat pump and like many of the posters have already stated, it works well down to around 35 degrees or so. It's extremely quiet and you struggle to know when its on or off. That being said, the average 3 ton heat pump (15 seer) and air handling system costs approximately $8 -10k. Furthermore, the average life expectancy out of these units is only about 10 years.

Click to expand...

I too question the 10 year life span estimate. My unit actually has a 10 year parts AND labor warranty. Would they warrant it for its entire life? I doubt that.

tjnamtiw said:

The mini-splits have really become popular but I believe that there is no 'emergency heat' mode on them for when the temp gets too low. Correct?

Click to expand...

no there is not but they are only 12-18k btu not enough to heat most houses anyways when the temp gets real low