Wood Burning Insert of Gas Insert

alepale · Oct 19, 2014

Read through the forum a bit, but here are the basic questions.

Have 2 open fireplaces. Living room and basement. Never used the basement one.
When I burn in the living room, if I don't open a window in the basement I will get smoke coming in the basement. Backdraft, I get it - negative pressure in the house. The both flues go up the same chimney so they are close to each other. (Opening the window defeats the purpose of getting heat from fireplace though). The next day, coming into the house, it smells like ashes.
Now looking to either get a wood insert or a gas insert.

Questions:
1. If I get a wood insert, will I still have to open windows to give the insert oxygen to burn?
2. Will I smell smoke/ashes in the house?
3. Do I have to use a fan on the insert to get heat? I heard they are loud and get louder with time.

What's better, wood or gas? This question is probably a matter of opinion, but I want to hear some.

What do you recommend I get?

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

The issue is common due to both chimney flues terminating at the same height. The simple solution it to elevate the LR flue 12-18" above the basement flue.
http://www.extendaflue.com/products/extend/extend-a-cap.html

Flush inserts need the fan on all the time. An insert that projects out onto the hearth needs the fan less so.

Grisu · Oct 19, 2014

Welcome to the forum!

alepale said:
What's better, wood or gas?

You are asking in a forum with primarily woodburners so the answer should be clear.

The question is what you prefer. Gas is more convenient, a lot less work, less messy, no smoke and ash, and easier to use. Wood is cheaper (when cutting your own wood), has a nicer fire, makes you fuel-supplier independent, and works even during a power outage. It's up to you which advantages you value more.

alepale said:
Opening the window defeats the purpose of getting heat from fireplace though

Fireplaces do not really supply heat. They suck warm air from the house and send it up the chimney. A modern woodstove is a lot more efficient and pull much less air. You may not have problems with backdraft and/or lack of draft. If it is still a problem you may want to consider an outside air kit.

alepale said:
2. Will I smell smoke/ashes in the house?

Occasionally a small whiff of smoke may escape but don't think that you come into a "smokehouse" every day. Again, modern stoves have come a long way and are now clean and efficient heating appliances.

alepale said:
3. Do I have to use a fan on the insert to get heat? I heard they are loud and get louder with time.

Depends how fast you want to get the heat and what other place it can go to. If your fireplace is at an exterior wall, the heat from the insert will also heat up the back wall and therefore your yard. The blower will help in directing it towards the house. In an interior fireplace, the heat will warm up the bricks which will release it over time into the house. It just may take longer than you want to wait. Most blowers, however, are not that loud especially on low. And an occasional cleaning and some lubrication helps with keeping it that way.

alepale · Oct 19, 2014

begreen said:
The issue is common due to both chimney flues terminating at the same height. The simple solution it to elevate the LR flue 12-18" above the basement flue.
http://www.extendaflue.com/products/extend/extend-a-cap.html

Flush inserts need the fan on all the time. An insert that projects out onto the hearth needs the fan less so.

Ok. Considering that I want an insert (gas or wood) for efficiency, would I still need to extend the height of one of the flues? I guess this doesn't really matter, because the installer would know if this needs to be done and would do it.
Surprised that a 12" height increase would eliminate the smoke coming back. But either way, a regular open fireplace is just a waste of heat and oxygen going up the chimney.

Do you know if there are fans that are super quiet?
I saw one at the store, and the fan was quiet but it was causing the air movement to be really loud. The salesman said that its not the fan, its the air that's loud. True, but the design should consider air movement noise as well and should make the air movement quiet.

alepale · Oct 19, 2014

Grisu said:
Welcome to the forum!

You are asking in a forum with primarily woodburners so the answer should be clear. The question is what you prefer. Gas is more convenient, a lot less work, less messy, no smoke and ash, and easier to use. Wood is cheaper (when cutting your own wood), has a nicer fire, makes you fuel-supplier independent, and works even during a power outage. It's up to you which advantages you value more.

Fireplaces do not really supply heat. They suck warm air from the house and send it up the chimney. A modern woodstove is a lot more efficient and pull much less air. You may not have problems with backdraft and/or lack of draft. If it is still a problem you may want to consider an outside air kit.

Occasionally a small whiff of smoke may escape but don't think that you come into a "smokehouse" every day. Again, modern stoves have come a long way and are now clean and efficient heating appliances.

Depends how fast you want to get the heat and what other place it can go to. If your fireplace is at an exterior wall, the heat from the insert will also heat up the back wall and therefore your yard. The blower will help in directing it towards the house. In an interior fireplace, the heat will warm up the bricks which will release it over time into the house. It just may take longer than you want to wait. Most blowers, however, are not that loud especially on low. And an occasional cleaning and some lubrication helps with keeping it that way.

By stoves I'm assuming you mean both stoves and wood burning inserts?

I don't mind if it takes longer to heat. Its more for the ambient feel and sound (while watching a movie or something). The bedrooms are upstairs so I don't think that the heat from fireplace would really go to the bedroom to heat them up.

Where does it get the oxygen to burn? From the room?

begreen · Oct 19, 2014

alepale said:
Ok. Considering that I want an insert (gas or wood) for efficiency, would I still need to extend the height of one of the flues? I guess this doesn't really matter, because the installer would know if this needs to be done and would do it.
Surprised that a 12" height increase would eliminate the smoke coming back. But either way, a regular open fireplace is just a waste of heat and oxygen going up the chimney.

Do you know if there are fans that are super quiet?
I saw one at the store, and the fan was quiet but it was causing the air movement to be really loud. The salesman said that its not the fan, its the air that's loud. True, but the design should consider air movement noise as well and should make the air movement quiet.

These are separate issues. Don't expect the installer to fix the smoke back-drafting issue without requesting a fix.

I have found the Pacific Energy fans to be quite quiet on medium to low speed. Not sure about others.

Grisu · Oct 19, 2014

alepale said:
By stoves I'm assuming you mean both stoves and wood burning inserts?

Yes, my bad. Should not be so sloppy with someone who is new. Modern EPA-approved stoves and inserts are very similar. The stove will be installed free standing and the insert goes into a masonry fireplace but both burn and heat almost the same.

I don't mind if it takes longer to heat. Its more for the ambient feel and sound (while watching a movie or something). The bedrooms are upstairs so I don't think that the heat from fireplace would really go to the bedroom to heat them up.

Modern inserts are space heaters. When the door is closed you will have the visual ambiance of the fire but no sound or smell. If you leave the door open you have again an inefficient fireplace.

A big enough insert can heat 2000+ sqft depending on insulation, climate and proper operation.

Where does it get the oxygen to burn? From the room?

Yes, but it actually will not need that much. http://www.woodheat.org/the-outdoor-air-myth-exposed.html

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Wood Burning Insert of Gas Insert

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