To replace an old stove, or solider on (Primary heat source is pellets)

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acammer

Burning Hunk
Nov 12, 2014
221
Cayuga County NY
Good afternoon all. This is my first post here on Hearth.com after countless hours of researching and reading - I'm ready to join the conversations, and get some input. Let me tell you a little bit about my setup, and then what I'm contemplating. I bought a new home this fall, a 1 story double wide with a full basement under it. Basement is finished for 2/3rds of the sq footage down there. Upstairs is about 1,500sq, and maybe another 600sq feet in the basement. House is pretty tight, has been resided and insulated, all windows and doors replaced with high quality units, etc.

For heat I currently I have a high efficiency propane furnace with forced air throughout the house. I also have an old (circa maybe 1994) Winrich Dynasty pellet stove - predecessor to the Winrich Perfecta (which is also a really old model). I can't find specs anywhere on BTU, efficiency, sq ft coverage, etc. It's a fairly large stove, holds maybe 50lbs of pellets if you load it just right. It's got a long rectangular burn pot, standard style auger feed, 6 position feed/convection blower control panel, draw through combustion blower and a decently strong convection blower. It's located in the finished portion of the basement. Exhaust rises about 4 vertical feet and then exits horizontally through the outside wall. Draws combustion air from the living space. There is a large open stairway about 10' from the stove leading to the center of the house. There is a ceiling fan directly over that stairway to help pull up the heat and push it around the house.

I cleaned the stove out very good before starting up this year, removing the fire bricks and cleaning out all the exhaust passages, etc. I'm burning 4 tons of Heatr's pellets from Home Depot this season, it's a hard/softwood blend. The stove is a manual light only, but pretty easy to get going with a little starting gel under a small handful of pellets. It burns nicely, producing only a little ash and lots of heat. The damper is a manual adjustment, but it's pretty easy to get right. It'll produce a monstrous amount of heat on the high setting, enough to heat up my house from 65* to 78*F in 2hrs with 40* ambient outside temp. Then I can throttle it back to the slowest feed setting and keep it running for days at a time keeping things nice and cozy, it seems to do great. I'm cleaning ash out every 3-4 days of running, and stirring the burn pot every 4-6hrs just to keep it burning clean. I use a few fans to push air around the house, and have no trouble keeping every room comfortable so far. I'm sure as ambient temps drop I'll have to push the stove harder, but I don't think it'll struggle too much to keep us warm, this is a case where the basement install is really working nicely.

So, everything sounds good right? It sounds good to me too. However, I am a little worried about the stoves long term serviceability - these are hard to get parts for. Right now I've notice a small maybe 1/4" in in diameter hole that has formed in between the seam of the center and side fire bricks. The fire bricks are a ceramic fibrous material and are showing quite a bit of erosion in several places. These cannot be replaced, the manufacture is long gone and the parts are very limited for these. Those wear items look to be the first things to go completely out of stock. I think a little furnace cement could fix up my short term issue (anybody ever do a fix on those), but that raises a couple of long term questions:

Am I comfortable putting my primary heating trust in a 20yr old stove that has a limited supply of parts at best? It's also a stove that doesn't have a self starter, so it's trouble if I want to have my wife or one of the kids start it up when I'm away. Is this thing efficient - I bet not so much as some of the new stoves. I'd love to have thermostatic control so I can cutback at night, crank up in the morning, etc. I big hopper would be really nice once we start burning more than a bag a day.

I was thinking about making an upgrade to a refurb 55-TRPAH from amfm. Hard to beat the price and from what I read that's a fairly efficient and reliable stove that has all the features I'm looking for. I hate to replace a good working stove, but it seems like I'm probably on borrowed time until I have a minor or major issue with this old stove, and then I'm on propane till I get it fixed (if I can get parts) and it's big bucks to burn the gas. What would you guys do? Is there a decent gain in efficiency you think I'd see with a new stove? Am I getting too worried about maybes and what ifs? I'd love to hear your thoughts on my setup, and what you think some good options are.
 
A lot of pellet stove parts can be interchanged in some cases. The fire bricks you can make yourself from something called kaowool. Kaowool is basically the fibrous ceramic that you speak of only in a wet moldable form. You mold it to the shape you want, install it and fire up the stove. The heat dries it into a permanent shape. Kaowool can be purchased from you're local heating contractor or online. Just something to consider. Oh and welcome to the forum:)
 
Al your electrics are replaceable/findable.Board can be repaired.Cera board sheets can be bought through mcmaster car and other places,but ouver the years these stoves and older st croix's have had steel plates made to replace the cera board with no ill problems,Small job for a welding shop to make them if you cannot find.I don't like replacing a stove in winter,but england stoves have good reputation and excellent customer service.
 
My opinion, if you can afford it and the stove is starting to concern you I would be looking to replace it. I'd rather replace it a year early than a year late, especially given that if it is down for any extended period of time its gonna cost you more in propane while you wait for parts or a new stove. Plus, since the stove still works you can shop around and do your homework.

I would think newer stoves would be more efficient but that is just a guess. You'd need to look at specific stoves and find the specs on your current model
 
I've repaired our firebrick with furnace cement twice already. Works ok
 
I agree with everything exspecbx mentioned ... except I'd probably do the opposite. :)
You have a known entity, and it sounds like it's running almost perfectly. Many owners of new stoves haven't figured out how to get their stove to work as well as it sounds yours is! There's no guarantee a new one would work as well (although, if it's researched well, there shouldn't be a problem).

I would look at getting some spares while you can, easily .. especially the really key parts (controller board, burn pot if it looks remotely like burning out), parts to replace/rebuild the augers, and your fire-brick-ish lining.

At least you have a good backup, so you shouldn't be in dire straights should it go out in the middle of February.

The key to a new one might be to have someone figure out your BTU requirement, given your layout, insulation, etc. (there are probably some on-line calculators that will get you close). Armed with that and your layout, you could certainly take your time finding a good solution at an affordable price.
 
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In case you haven't found this yet ... http://pellethead.com/categories.php?category=Stove-Parts/Winrich-Stove-Parts

Seem to have ceraboard & steel firebricks, control board, etc.

I have seen this - they only have the center sections of ceraboard and under that particular piece they say on their site that the side pieces are out of stock with no replacements being produced. Earth Sense does seem to have a pretty decent supply of good parts.

It does seem a little crazy to go replacing something that isn't broke - that definitely goes against my nature. I guess I'm just concerned about ease of operation for others - the damper is super finicky to adjust, it's a manual ignition, no thermostat, etc. I also don't want to give up 20% efficiency. The 55-TRPAH is a 76% efficient stove, I can't imagine this old dinosaur is anywhere near that. 20% less fuel burned would pay for the new stove in just a couple of years.

But then again, I do have it dialed in, and it works real well. I like dialing in the feed an air, it's like slow motion carburetor tuning. I guess I'll have to give it some more thought. I know if I did replace this stove I would keep it around, maybe even set it up in my garage/workshop.

Any more thoughts, I'm happy to hear them. I'd love to hear about anybody else's personal experience with this particular stove - I've not run into hardly anything about it on this forum.
 
You might be suprised to know the eff of some older designs is as good as most units made today,if properly run,especially if you have the newer design pot,so don't expect big savings.But the new unit would be easier to run,possibly to clean,and should work well off a tstat.If you are thinking seriously about new,start new thread,something like "opinions on ********** stove,and give it a few days.
 
Funny you mentioned garage, as that was my thought. Get a more user friendly one for the house and you still have the pleasure of dialing it in - just in the garage;lol Usually require 18" off garage floor for installation to avoid fumes FYI.
 
At the end of the day you need to decide what is best for you and your family. Again, since the stove still runs fine, I would take your time and do some research on stoves you think will fit your needs. You may find that what you have meets your needs and just stick with it.
 
The firebrick issue would be my biggest concern, due to safety. If that can be addressed (and it needs to be, soon) then it becomes a matter of no OAK (likely your biggest loss of efficiency) and convenience, I think. I have both a newer Quad MVAE and an old, manual Whitfield Quest. Yes, the manual lighting is a big pain, and that causes me to watch Craigslist for someone local with a Harman or Quad that bought a house with a stove and doesn't want to lug pellet bags. But the Whit works well, and until I can find a real deal I'll keep it. Besides, winter is often a terrible time to buy a stove in terms of deals.
 
The firebrick issue would be my biggest concern, due to safety. If that can be addressed (and it needs to be, soon) then it becomes a matter of no OAK (likely your biggest loss of efficiency) and convenience.

Tell me more about the safety issue with the small hole in the fire brick - is it the potential for getting burning material further down the exhaust stream than it belongs? I'm definitely planning on repairing that in the near future (IE. this weekend) but I want to understand better the risks involved there running in the interim. I'm definitely adding an OAK to this setup if I keep it, that's a no brainer for keeping the inside air warm - and I don't want to be drafting the H20 heather in the adjoining room.

I'm still pretty on the fence here - I'd really like to keep the old girl going, but I feel like it's gonna become trouble at some point for the wife, if she's gotta light it or change the feed and air I can just see all sorts of issues cropping up. I appreciate all this good input - I've had the pleasure (and displeasure) of participating in a lot of different internet forums, and this one seems like a real good place. Thanks for that, some of that credit must be on the moderators, but it seems like people that wanna spend a little extra effort to heat with wood are my kinda people!
 
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Tell me more about the safety issue with the small hole in the fire brick - is it the potential for getting burning material further down the exhaust stream than it belongs? I'm definitely planning on repairing that in the near future (IE. this weekend) but I want to understand better the risks involved there running in the interim. I'm definitely adding an OAK to this setup if I keep it, that's a no brainer for keeping the inside air warm - and I don't want to be drafting the H20 heather in the adjoining room.

I'm still pretty on the fence here - I'd really like to keep the old girl going, but I feel like it's gonna become trouble at some point for the wife, if she's gotta light it or change the feed and air I can just see all sorts of issues cropping up. I appreciate all this good input - I've had the pleasure (and displeasure) of participating in a lot of different internet forums, and this one seems like a real good place. Thanks for that, some of that credit must be on the moderators, but it seems like people that wanna spend a little extra effort to heat with wood are my kinda people!
The fire brick is an insulator. Behind it will be where your pellets are stored inside the stove. Remove the insulator, and those pellets get hot. TOO hot! And you potemtially end up with a hopper fire, which is ugly. Some have spoken of repairing it. I can't comment on that as I've never done it. But it's not an area in which to take chances.
 
Tell me more about the safety issue with the small hole in the fire brick - is it the potential for getting burning material further down the exhaust stream than it belongs? I'm definitely planning on repairing that in the near future (IE. this weekend) but I want to understand better the risks involved there running in the interim. I'm definitely adding an OAK to this setup if I keep it, that's a no brainer for keeping the inside air warm - and I don't want to be drafting the H20 heather in the adjoining room.

I'm still pretty on the fence here - I'd really like to keep the old girl going, but I feel like it's gonna become trouble at some point for the wife, if she's gotta light it or change the feed and air I can just see all sorts of issues cropping up. I appreciate all this good input - I've had the pleasure (and displeasure) of participating in a lot of different internet forums, and this one seems like a real good place. Thanks for that, some of that credit must be on the moderators, but it seems like people that wanna spend a little extra effort to heat with wood are my kinda people!
Going to have to disagree with some of the people here about the "firebrick".This is not a wood stove.A lot of older pellet stoves used this setup(asbestos panels in front of the steel body of stove) and appears was because they thought it would protect the outer layer of the stove,appearing that they thought in a bad situation the stove may reach temps above a coal stove.Believe it or not back then there were americans that thought about safety.This is old style refractory thinking.Quite some time ago someone that obviously only could get poor pellets,who had to clean their stove often,who broke the panels,got tired of this and made steel insert panels.They worked so good he sold them(yes,aftermarket as we say in the automotive buissness).Then companies started mass producing the panels for stove shopsone of the reaso(they were never pantented).They work,stove may or may not burn a little different.If you run stove without panels,good chance the stove will warp/twist,(older american stove),or will no longer meet stove side clearances from combustionables(itialian stoves).Have any of you bothered to research who uses this technology?It is used today by mfgs that want touse less steel in the outer shells yet maintain a closer mounting distance.It is 1940's technology,and no longer cost effective.But I have been rambling,put a dab of silicone on the hole,it will be fine untill next time you take it out.Have put a section of sheet metal in a st croix for a temp repair(some years ago) and person switched over to metal inserts,stove is still running.Now if you told me you bought a horizon and were going to install it,I would have to drive there and smack you! ;lol
 
" Draws combustion air from the living space."

This is probably a bad idea for a manufactured home. In fact, most manuals state it's required to OAK for a mfg'ed home. It won't burn properly due to lack of oxygen, and it will make your house feel cooler as it tries to draw in from any and all drafty places/joints.


On topic, IMO, set aside a grand somewhere in savings for your replacement stove, IF and WHEN you need it. Until then, burn what you got. Run propane for a week or two while the replacement unit is shiped/installed.
 
" Draws combustion air from the living space."

This is probably a bad idea for a manufactured home. In fact, most manuals state it's required to OAK for a mfg'ed home. It won't burn properly due to lack of oxygen, and it will make your house feel cooler as it tries to draw in from any and all drafty places/joints.

A bit off topic but, most "manufactured homes" usually refers to trailer homes ... and don't have basements. Where do "pre-fab" homes fall in the regulation mix?

Edit: Either way, better with an OAK;)
 
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'round here, a doublewide IS a trailer....
 
Yea, it's definitely not your typical trailer - full basement, more square (44'x26') with a big 400sqft addition out back and a 1,000sqft attached garage. That aside, I'd be the first one to argue for an OAK, just makes sense - why pull cold air into the house? I'm definitely still deliberating, the old Dynasty has been running nicely as the temps have been a little cooler outside, doing about 1.5bags a day at this point. I just think the convenience of a thermostat is ultimately going to draw me in. I'd love to be able to throttle the stove without spending the time to tune the air every time. I'd love to make the damper and just have presets but unfortunately it works kinda funny and tuning the lower feed settings requires a few minutes of adjustment to get it right. I imagine if I can make this old stove run well I shouldn't have much trouble dialing in a new unit - it looks like the TRPAH has good options for fine tuning.

As for the fire brick I think i can come up with a fix for that, it's not in awful shape so that would probably make the winter. While running at 100% duty cycle (aprx 10.5lbs/hr) on the fuel auger I've had the temp gauge on the air vents off the heat exchanger up to 600*F and the hopper while very warm certainly wasn't frightfully hot. And I don't think I'll have too many instances where the stove would be pushed that hot for anything more than an hour in the morning warming up before cutting back to 40-60% duty cycle on the fuel. I do like the idea of being able to warm up the garage whenever I need to do some equipment work out there.
 
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