The is a program here call LIEAP to help with heating for families you may have it on your state too.
Total newbie, completely fubar system.
- Thread starter ColdInMichigan
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Clarkbug
Minister of Fire
Rude awakening this morning when my pex line coming into my house blew off and flooded the basement! Man these boilers are fun! Dont think it was an overtemp issue since i had the furnace fan running all night and when it woke me up the temp in the house was only 67° (thermostat set at 74°). Now I wait for the hardware store to open and try to get this fixed and the system refilled before the pipes freeze or my family does.
Stee, with wet wood he might be better off increasing fan speed to a little above what would be normal for dry wood, increase primary as you did but decrease secondary to promote a higher secondary combustion temp. In his case too much secondary will decrease flame temp.
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Mike Fromme
Burning Hunk
Mike Fromme
Burning Hunk
I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at... Npt to pex compression fitting? Kind of looks melted?? You might get away with a barb fitting and hose clamp for an emergency repair.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
Worst case. DANG IT. I have had a million thoughts on your rig this week, ColdInMI. None of them particularly good. I would bet good money you had an overheat last night.
When I left your place on Thursday I couldn't stop thinking about the plumbing arrangement and that blown expansion tank. I'm betting that expansion tank was blown on day one, has always been like that. Your system is (was) plumbed directly into your house water supply. Your house is running a normal 50psi +/-. Your boiler SHOULD run in the 20psi range. A proper pressure relief valve would have blown at 30psi last night. I am assuming the guy that installed your rig installed a much, much higher pressure relief valve because of the fact that he had that fill valve always open. I bet it's 80-100psi and I'm betting this is why it did not blow last night. You can look at the PRV and see if it has the pressure rating on it. But that won't do you much good at this point.
The good news? Thank god we turned off that valve filling the boiler system. Had your pex popped with your house water still connected you would have had a lot more water down there this morning. The other good news? It doesn't look like the pex burst but rather the fitting broke. Much, much easier to fix that fitting than replace pex.
I gotta tell ya...I think you're money is better spent on propane right now. If you fix the pex but still can't control the fan there is no reason this won't happen again. I'm at a loss on how the prior owner survived with this rig. Unless he intentionally tuned it to run so cold, so chitty that he never really had to worry about it. But running like that you saw that it will not heat when it's really cold outside. Perhaps he always hit the propane when it got really cold?
I'm going to check my stock to see if I have a spare PEX-AL-PEX fitting in my stash. If so, we might be able to make quick repair on your line. But I still think you're fighting an uphill battle for this winter.
When I left your place on Thursday I couldn't stop thinking about the plumbing arrangement and that blown expansion tank. I'm betting that expansion tank was blown on day one, has always been like that. Your system is (was) plumbed directly into your house water supply. Your house is running a normal 50psi +/-. Your boiler SHOULD run in the 20psi range. A proper pressure relief valve would have blown at 30psi last night. I am assuming the guy that installed your rig installed a much, much higher pressure relief valve because of the fact that he had that fill valve always open. I bet it's 80-100psi and I'm betting this is why it did not blow last night. You can look at the PRV and see if it has the pressure rating on it. But that won't do you much good at this point.
The good news? Thank god we turned off that valve filling the boiler system. Had your pex popped with your house water still connected you would have had a lot more water down there this morning. The other good news? It doesn't look like the pex burst but rather the fitting broke. Much, much easier to fix that fitting than replace pex.
I gotta tell ya...I think you're money is better spent on propane right now. If you fix the pex but still can't control the fan there is no reason this won't happen again. I'm at a loss on how the prior owner survived with this rig. Unless he intentionally tuned it to run so cold, so chitty that he never really had to worry about it. But running like that you saw that it will not heat when it's really cold outside. Perhaps he always hit the propane when it got really cold?
I'm going to check my stock to see if I have a spare PEX-AL-PEX fitting in my stash. If so, we might be able to make quick repair on your line. But I still think you're fighting an uphill battle for this winter.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
When I got there he was unable to keep the fire going at all when he'd close the doors and pull the bypass. The primaries were open about 3/4" and the secondaries were basically closed. So I set his primaries just under 1/2" and opened up his secondaries to roughly 6 turns. We were getting a pretty decent flame at that point and this should be a decent setup for wet wood. I'm running 9mm and 4 turns on my rig with dry wood.
If he popped pex last night due to pressure (which I'm guessing he did) I think the problem now is too much heat and a pressure relief valve not designed for this type of application. When I left I assumed worst case would be some water coming out of his PRV should he overtemp. Well...I think we've proven that theory wrong. I wish I had checked the rating on his PRV before I left. It never even ocured to me.
Mike Fromme
Burning Hunk
Hopefully it had a low water cut off to shut off power to the fans when the line blew. Otherwise if it had a fire going with no water you could have bigger problems.
I wouldn't run it until the controller is hooked back up to the fan at least.
I wouldn't run it until the controller is hooked back up to the fan at least.
Clarkbug
Minister of Fire
Gotta agree wtih Mike here. I know that you dont have the $ C.I.M, but you should figure out how to get the propane fill, run that system, and get that controller fixed. Otherwise you will be spending more money to fix issues like this until you can get the system plumbed and operating properly.
Stee, sounds like your settings are good for what's going on, as you guys are eluding to a total reinstall when the weather gets better or the enclosure is finished will provide positive results.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
Negatory. There is no control on his boiler. For the record ColdInMichigan seems like a very nice dude AND I 100% believe he had no part in installing his system. He's way too smart to have done this. That said, his installation is a full-on example of how NOT to install a wood fired appliance. For the purposes of someone benefiting from this info in the future I'll outline below some of the things this particular DIY'er did horribly wrong:
Major items:
1.) The boiler plumbing is tied directly to his house plumbing with no backflow preventer / autofill device. It is hard plumbed with only a gate valve between the two sides.
2.) The boiler has no mixing valve/loop. Supply goes straight to the house, returns straight back to boiler. ColdInMi will be fixing this soon with an extra pump he has (similar to Eric Johnson's recommendation).
3.) The primary circ pump is plugged into the wall (on 100% of the time).
4.) The fan is plugged into the wall (on 100% of the time).
5.) The pex is good pex (1" pex-al-pex) but I'm guessing it's buried to an average depth of 6-12" as it approaches the house. That said, it's only loosing 5 degrees per side, +/-.
6.) It sounds like the pex was buried with some cored styrafoam blocks around it. For water intrusion purposes this might as well be direct-burial, uninsulated.
7.) There is a small expansion tank plumbed in the house but it is leaking and clearly blown (see my prior post).
8.) We now know the pressure relief valve is either non-functioning or rated far too high for boiler use (or both). It's also got no vent leg (if it blows, it's strategically directed toward where the operator would stand).
9.) The boiler is located basically outside. It is covered but it get's plenty of wind and probably a bit of precip too.
10.) I think the flue might be 4"...possibly 6", I did not measure it. It comes out and exits the barn at a 30 degree angle with about 8' of total pipe.
Minor items:
1.) The boiler is plumbed with a mix of black, galvanized, copper and pex pipe.
2.) Gate valves were used throughout instead of full port ball valves.
3.) The upper door seals are completely shot. A river of creosote runs down the left side.
4.) There is only one lower refractory remaining and it's in rough shape.
5.) I didn't get to see the upper refractory from the top but the secondary holes are present and in good shape. Upper refractories might need some attention though.
The good news:
1.) The EKO boiler is kick ass and rugged. It can come back from this abusive history.
2.) ColdInMichigan has a coil in his furnace plenum that I wish I had. It's a very nice coil, plenty big enough for a big heat load and/or low to moderate supply temps.
3.) The pex is proper O2 barrier pex in spite of its depth.
I've said it before but perhaps it's worth saying again - I am not an HVAC professional. Never have been, never will be. Just a DIY'er who learned everything he knows about boilers from this very site (and my own installation). There are pro's on this site that know more than I will ever know. But they also charge for house calls! ha.
I really hope we can get ColdInMichigan in a survivable situation for this winter. His kids appear to love the movie Frozen just like mine do but I don't think they want to build Olaf in the middle of the living room this week.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Wow. Whoever installed that should be, well, I don't know. Just wow.
Just that first thing on your major item list alone is worthy of the hugest of wows. I would bet large dollars the relief is a DHW one and Stee has the blowout situation figured exactly right. Hope your boiler is OK now.
Man I hope you can get through this winter.
Just that first thing on your major item list alone is worthy of the hugest of wows. I would bet large dollars the relief is a DHW one and Stee has the blowout situation figured exactly right. Hope your boiler is OK now.
Man I hope you can get through this winter.
huffdawg
Minister of Fire
I guess it was kind of good that the system didn't have an auto-fill device installed on it, would have been a swimming pool in his basement.
As painful as it may be it sounds like this system should be shut down and winterized for this season. There are way too many things wrong here to attempt to limp through. Something bad could happen that will cost major money or personal injury, or both. This spring I would disassemble everything and put it back together correctly. Good luck!
Mike Fromme
Burning Hunk
I'd rather have a flooded basement then a boiler burning out of control with no water in it.I guess it was kind of good that the system didn't have an auto-fill device installed on it, would have been a swimming pool in his basement.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Not sure I would, if the boiler is outside in an open space. Hard one to call though.
As bad as things are, I don't think it would cost whole lot $ wise to get things improved greatly. And the $ spent would be needed going forward anyway - like a controller, and pressure regulator/backflow setup. Just a matter of getting things sorted out & the time it would take. Tough situation.
Oh man I feel for you. It sounds like PO Bubba really messed your system up.
You have found good people here to support you. STEE being there speaks volumes of his character!! The rest of us wish we were closer and new about boilers. Keep at it, just think how much you will appreciate it when it's fixed!
I have a challenge for other forum members. Give up cup of coffee house coffee and send $5 to Cold in Michigan
. It will help a family that needs a solution fast to a heating problem.
Cold please check your inbox for a note from me about where to send my $5.00
All I ask is you pay the help forward to another person sometime.
My $$ will be in the mail Monday as I got a reply.
. It will help a family that needs a solution fast to a heating problem.
Cold please check your inbox for a note from me about where to send my $5.00
All I ask is you pay the help forward to another person sometime.
My $$ will be in the mail Monday as I got a reply.
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ixlr8
Member
I suggest a quick conversation as address on open forums is not a good idea in today's world IMHO
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