Osburn 7000

hyfire · Mar 14, 2015

They hardwood's will plug up even faster..maybe

Ambient · Mar 15, 2015

hyfire said:
They hardwood's will plug up even faster..maybe

Although I noticed they need more ummph to burn well; says that remembering I didn't get the combustion settings just right. Note: I'm still fussing with them this am. I suspect that the hardwood pellets may need to be blended, as suggested; or they will be used on the very cold days if the stove is cranking. My premise that I would love to prove or disprove is that the hardwood pellet would sustain a longer burn time per pound than the softwood pellets on degree days near or below zero. I may need to wait until next year to figure this out as I came home to see my cover crops and lawn exposed in areas after a week of warmer temps. Surely those folks north of the border will keep their frigid temp's to themselves the rest of this heating season.

Opinions and experience relating to soft vs hard pellets welcome

Ambient · Mar 16, 2015

Well, I got the new set of adjustments, metered down to what I believe is the minimum it will run with. I've notice two things:

1. Ash everywhere
2. Burning more Pounds Per Hour (PPH) than the softwood pellets. More than one bag in 24 hours, not by any great amount per day...but over a heating season it would add up. I'll run it for this week and see how it shakes out.

Lake Girl · Mar 16, 2015

hyfire said:
They hardwood's will plug up even faster..maybe

That's the experience I've had with my stove. Less clinkers/carbon with the softwoods with ash being lighter.

Ambient · Mar 16, 2015

Lake Girl said:
That's the experience I've had with my stove. Less clinkers/carbon with the softwoods with ash being lighter.

do you burn more PPH with hardwoods also?

Lake Girl · Mar 16, 2015

Ambient said:
do you burn more PPH with hardwoods also?

I haven't burned hardwoods in a long while ...

hyfire · Mar 16, 2015

How do you know its burning more, did you time the stove run time from start to stop?????????

Ambient · Mar 17, 2015

hyfire said:
How do you know its burning more, did you time the stove run time from start to stop?????????

Yes, same time each day I "inventory" the bin and have marked each level to help judge the usage. I will also scrutinize the usage for the whole week just to make a proper comparison. I believe the combustion settings are the difference. In order to keep the basic minimum flame going my auger rate is higher than the combustion fan setting. When I back the auger rate down the flame begins to wain and the fire gets cold, which brought on a no fuel error. Was your experience is different?

Lake Girl said:
do you burn more PPH with hardwoods also? I haven't burned hardwoods in a long while ...

PPH = pellets per hour

Ambient · Mar 19, 2015

Hmmm, a random repetitive noise has been coming from the stove, enough to wake me up at 3 something. Sitting there observing, I realized a few things. It didn't sound like metal grinding,I was worried about a small stone getting in there and it was from the last bag I had put into the hopper. I watched the back side of the auger and noticed that it would occasionally undulate, as it is not fixed solid but apparently floats. As the end of the auger realigned itself at the end of this movement, you could see the movement end with the noted bang. This morning the hopper was emptying with the last cupful of pellets and I noticed the auger pinch a pellet between the screw and the feed tube. This forced the auger to move and as the pellet finally broke, there was the banging noise. I had also noticed that randomly throughout the mix had been some very glazed, as in shinny sided pellets. These being the Empire hardwood pellets, I had also grabbed a few from the mix and noticed that a few of them were so hard I couldn't break them apart in my fingers*** sometimes referred to as my bear paws.

1. Why are some pellets glazed, when most aren't? What binds the hardwood pellets together?
2. Is this just par for the course?
3. Will these glazed hardwood pellets wear down the auger faster?

Ambient · Mar 19, 2015

I hope this is alright: cut and copying some good information I found on another thread.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...s-softwood-pellets.133921/page-2#post-1799109

purplereign said:
Generally just lurk here, but some subjects I just can't leave alone. FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process. Lake Girl has the best info thus far on the difference between heat output of softwood vs. hardwood. The resins in softwood can contribute to a higher Btu value for softwoods (amount depends on the actual softwood species). Some of these resins are destroyed in the furnish drying process, and some more in the extrusion process, but some remain in the pellets. These resins offgas terpenes and various other volatile organic compounds which is what gives pine its characteristic smell.
Otherwise, the major differences in hardwood vs. softwood are mostly in the vascular structures that transport water and sap. Most other differences (weight, color, density etc.) may be true in most cases, but there are usually exceptions for individual species on both sides. So, SOME species of softwood pellets may produce more heat than SOME species of hardwood pellet, but it is far from a certainty. The VERY BEST softwood pellet will likely produce more Btu/lb than the best hardwood pellet, but the difference will likely be 5% or less.
How much heat you get from your stove is an equation with far more variables than just the Btu value of your pellets. Moisture content is certainly a factor, but the pelleting process itself removes a fairly consistent amount of water, and generally results in pellets coming to you in a pretty narrow and consistent range of moisture content. (Thus you see the generalization on bags of pellets "Less than 5% moisture"). By the way - know what you are looking at with the claimed Btu value that is printed on bags or available on manufacturers websites. Btu value/lb may be figured in two ways - dry value or actual value. Because some heat is necessary to drive off the remaining (< 5%) moisture in a pellet, the Btu value of the pellet as it comes to you is somewhat less than the Btu value figured based on the pellet being absolutely dry. Since your pellets will never be absolutely dry (0% moisture) the dry value Btu rating is essentially worthless. Because Btu value is a selling point, however, some manufacturers like to trumpet the dry basis number as a selling point - a questionable practice at best. I have seen any number of posts here where folks have been tripped up (deceived, actually) by this practice.
Density is important, to a point, as is pellet geometry. I can densify pellets to the point they are nearly bulletproof - they will be extremely hard, super shiny, and darker colored due to the greater heat produced in the extrusion process Better pellet? Not to many folks - they can be harder to ignite and will burn slower. A given weight of wood will require a given amount of air to combust it properly. Therefore, more air is required for a denser pellet to burn properly and completely. The end result for many is incompletely burned pellets (invariably referred to as "ash") being pushed out of the burn pot and accumulating elsewhere. Without an air adjustment, the flame will look lazy, glass will darken quickly, heat output will be low and the stove will require frequent cleaning. Those in the know can adjust their stove and enjoy the benefits of the denser pellet....others will condemn the pellets as "trash"and "full of bark". Which way would you produce them - as good as they can be, or ?
Pellet geometry, especially length, also affects perceived heat output. Your feed auger, working at a set speed, will deliver significantly differing amounts of longer vs. shorter pellets to your burn pot. How different will depend on your particular stove's auger design - diameter and flighting design being especially important. The greater weight of pellets delivered per revolution will obviously produce more heat (again, if and only if, the proper amount of combustion air is provided).
Learning all you can about how your stove operates will be of considerable more value to you quibbling about Btu value of hardwood vs. softwood pellets!

OK so some of the pellets are densified. Dark and shinny. I guess I need to listen to beat the drum slowly all night. ;hm

Lake Girl · Mar 19, 2015

From wikipedia:
Pellets are produced by compressing the wood material which has first passed through a hammer mill to provide a uniform dough-like mass.[13] This mass is fed to a press where it is squeezed through a die having holes of the size required (normally 6 mm diameter, sometimes 8 mm or larger). The high pressure of the press causes the temperature of the wood to increase greatly, and the ligninplasticizes slightly forming a natural "glue" that holds the pellet together as it cools.[7]

Most auger systems allow a little play in the motor. The auger itself is usually aligned with a bearing plate and bearing. Your manual shows two augers - so it pushes pellets into burn pot while the stove I have drops pellets into the burn pot (single auger).

Augers - Figures F & J
http://www.osburn-mfg.com/upload/documents/manuels/45723A_05-03-2015.pdf

Ambient · Mar 19, 2015

So dense pellets can be a normal thing, and the auger should be able to handle the density if I understand the dynamics of everything. I guess I can calm down and get some sleep tonight. Thanks :cool:

CleanFire · Mar 19, 2015

Found the same thing here when I tried Hardwood pellets, they're sometimes crunchy in the auger.. Had me concerned (well, a bit freaked out) when the pellets broke also.

Thanks for posting that info from purplereign, learned something new today.

Ambient · Mar 20, 2015

CleanFire said:
Found the same thing here when I tried Hardwood pellets, they're sometimes crunchy in the auger.. Had me concerned (well, a bit freaked out) when the pellets broke also.

Thanks for posting that info from purplereign, learned something new today.

I thought that was helpful as well, LakeGirl helped me fill in a few other blanks.

After cleaning again yesterday, I loaded the LG softwood pellets and no more banging. IOW, it's not the stove but the pellets.

CleanFire · Mar 20, 2015

Ambient said:
I thought that was helpful as well, LakeGirl helped me fill in a few other blanks.

Lake Girl is our hero here - her posts on how to disassemble and clean the Ecotech stoves on the forum allowed me to quickly clean and rehabilitate the Francesca stove after purchase & repair. Really helped to warm and brighten our holidays. Literally.

She is the BEST. MODERATOR. EVER. (Many Thanks Lake Girl).

--
I just picked up another 1/2 ton of LG Granules today, re-tuned the stove last night (feed and air) - will still be 'experimenting' with other pellets, but burning Granules for the rest of the season /beginning of next.

Lake Girl · Mar 20, 2015

CleanFire said:
her posts on how to disassemble and clean the Ecotech stoves

Glad I could help but just doing what everyone does here ... share what we know, what we tried, what worked or didn't work. Thanks for the shout-out though

Ambient · Mar 25, 2015

Lake Girl said:
From wikipedia:
Pellets are produced by compressing the wood material which has first passed through a hammer mill to provide a uniform dough-like mass.[13] This mass is fed to a press where it is squeezed through a die having holes of the size required (normally 6 mm diameter, sometimes 8 mm or larger). The high pressure of the press causes the temperature of the wood to increase greatly, and the ligninplasticizes slightly forming a natural "glue" that holds the pellet together as it cools.[7]

Most auger systems allow a little play in the motor. The auger itself is usually aligned with a bearing plate and bearing. Your manual shows two augers - so it pushes pellets into burn pot while the stove I have drops pellets into the burn pot (single auger).

Augers - Figures F & J
http://www.osburn-mfg.com/upload/documents/manuels/45723A_05-03-2015.pdf

Something I noticed that I find interesting based on the current test drive of a Maeder hardwood pellet. The pellets are very uniform in color, much like the LG Granules. They burned on the very same combustion settings as the softwood pellets :confused:

, I've had no flame outs and still maintained the temp levels in the house. The density of the pellets seems very consistent, I'm able to snap them with some reasonable effort. There's no banging noise from the 1st feed tube auger.

The Empire hardwood pellets had a wide assortment of colors, some with very dark brown and shinny sides. I wonder if this darkness is from heat and moisture within the pressing of the pellet? Those pellets were very dense and not easily snapped between my fingers, they caused the auger to bang. So what makes those Empires get so dark brown and shinny, any clues or thoughts* special note to the purplereign post?

* a side note: the Maeders only draw back seems that they leave a very white ash/fly ash, more than any other pellet I've tried so far. It might mean a bit more cleaning but at $75 dollars a ton difference X a potential use of 6 tons next season = ;hm

Bioburner · Mar 25, 2015

Your hardwood pellets may have more slashings included or a bit more heat-pressure used to get the lignin to bind the pellet together.

Ambient · Mar 25, 2015

Slashings as in tree bark and other by products of the forrest floor?

Ambient · Mar 25, 2015

I was going to ask some long term users in this town what they find as consistent in the Empire's. Is this streaking just a recent thing, as the factory can't make enough to satisfy demand. Folks are limited to getting 10 bags for over a month now, they continue to run out even though they are made somewhat locally.

Bioburner · Mar 25, 2015

Ambient said:
Slashings as in tree bark and other by products of the forrest floor?

The machines that take the saw logs trim off the limbs and often times that is what finds its way into other products.

Ambient · Mar 30, 2015

Well this was a first, and it was one of my initial concerns. We have one of our blustery days, with the winds, which we call the trade winds from all of the local lakes hammering the southwest side of the house. The stove alarmed with a warning message about the vent pipe being blocked. I made an adjustment to the combustion settings and kicked it up a few notches for more heat to attempt to ensure the wind doesn't overcome this again. I assume if it alarms again I need to shut it down and fire up the wood stove. It's been so nice not having to feed that every few hours.

I may also need a better termination cap, all I have is a screened one now. The dealer insisted it would be fine, ;hm

Bioburner · Mar 30, 2015

I had the same issue till the Lilacs grew back in the properties wind break. I stuck a couple pallets in a teepee in front of the vent to break the wind. Not uncommon to get 40 plus winds around here. 3 since last Tuesday.

Ambient · Mar 30, 2015

Bioburner said:
I had the same issue till the Lilacs grew back in the properties wind break. I stuck a couple pallets in a teepee in front of the vent to break the wind. Not uncommon to get 40 plus winds around here. 3 since last Tuesday.

I'll need to build something similar as it's about 10 feet above the ground. Our lilac's are adjacent to the outlet, but down wind.

Ambient · Mar 31, 2015

Dura Vent has a high wind termination cap....or should I say a High Price cap. Is that a viable option? The high wind vertical cap is $57 the horizontal cap is over $100

I may make up something to bolt to the end of the existing cap.

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