I am looking to get a stove or insert for next season, and one option is to get an insert in out masonry fireplace, but I dont really want to have the noise of a fan or have a unit that doesnt work when the power goes out. Does anyone make a good wood burning insert that works well without a blower?
Are there any inserts that are effective without using a fan?
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LeonMSPT
Minister of Fire
The thing about "inserts" is they live in the fireplace, mostly... some do stick out some, but by and large you'll get much more heat out of them with a blower going. A stove will throw more heat with a blower too, but the difference is less pronounced because they usually don't live inside the fireplace...
atomichawg said:
Most well designed inserts provide convection heat without the blower running. They just provide more of it with the blower running. For twenty years I wondered whether our old insert could heat the house without the blower but was concerned I would wreck the fans if they weren't running pulling cooling air over them. Well, in year twenty one I got to find out because we lost power for seven days with us buried in heavy we snow and it did just fine. We were toasty warm while the rest of the neighborhood was freezing. Had a few over to warm them up. One property of heat is that it moves to fill the cold places. Cold air sucks up heat.
I currently have a large freestanding stove buried in that same exterior fireplace and frequently burn it all night without the blower going but it definitely will heat the place up better with the fan on moving the air out of the fireplace.
At the moment it isn't very cold here. 39 outside, which our friends to the north would call tropical, but the stove is idling without the fan and it is 74 upstairs in a 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial. We are old and don't like it cold in this joint. But if it gets any warmer up there I am going to have to crack a window.
And on low most blowers just are not that loud anyway. Heck they are a lot quieter than a pellet stove.
I currently have a large freestanding stove buried in that same exterior fireplace and frequently burn it all night without the blower going but it definitely will heat the place up better with the fan on moving the air out of the fireplace.
At the moment it isn't very cold here. 39 outside, which our friends to the north would call tropical, but the stove is idling without the fan and it is 74 upstairs in a 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial. We are old and don't like it cold in this joint. But if it gets any warmer up there I am going to have to crack a window.
And on low most blowers just are not that loud anyway. Heck they are a lot quieter than a pellet stove.
weatherguy
Minister of Fire
Good pick weatherguy. To get decent heat out of an insert without a fan it's going to need to stick as far out of the fireplace as possible. Another alternative is to install a freestanding woodstove on the hearth in front of the fireplace.
I believe that particular insert above has a firebox of around 1.6,cu.ft.
Quadra-Fire has 3100i that extends onto hearth 12 in. with a 2.0 box
4100i that extends 11 n. with 2.47 box
and 5100i 10,1/2 with 3.0 box.
Effeciency of 78%, 76%, 75.5% respectively.
Quadra-Fire has 3100i that extends onto hearth 12 in. with a 2.0 box
4100i that extends 11 n. with 2.47 box
and 5100i 10,1/2 with 3.0 box.
Effeciency of 78%, 76%, 75.5% respectively.
Our first insert stuck out of our fireplace by about 5"-6". On milder days it would heat things up. It just took longer.
New insert is flush and it does not heat things up as well without the blowers on even though it is much larger than out old one. Blowers are a necessity for it.
Initially the blower noise was bothersome but within a short period of time it became another background noise and one that we equate with being warm - kind of like a Pavlov's dog response....fan noise and our bodies heat up....no fan noise and our bodies feel cold....
If you are concerned about the noise get an insert without blowers but that can have them added if you decide you do want more heat. I would also recommend one that is not flush.
New insert is flush and it does not heat things up as well without the blowers on even though it is much larger than out old one. Blowers are a necessity for it.
Initially the blower noise was bothersome but within a short period of time it became another background noise and one that we equate with being warm - kind of like a Pavlov's dog response....fan noise and our bodies heat up....no fan noise and our bodies feel cold....
If you are concerned about the noise get an insert without blowers but that can have them added if you decide you do want more heat. I would also recommend one that is not flush.
burntime
New Member
I have only had 2 inserts, old pre epa and new epa. Both needed the fan to be effective. I kinda wonder if they would overfire if I packed then and did not use the fan???
There are a few folks around here (including myself) who run inserts without surrounds/face-plates. I'm convinced that I get similar amounts of heat with and without using the blower. Inserts are basically convection (2 shell) wood stoves with unattractive back-sides. So, insert-surround=hearth stove
If you really like the surround look, you can often attach it forward so there is a venting gap behind it. If you get a quiet blower for normal use, and are worried about power outages...plan on pulling the surround off when the power goes out.
If you really like the surround look, you can often attach it forward so there is a venting gap behind it. If you get a quiet blower for normal use, and are worried about power outages...plan on pulling the surround off when the power goes out.
My experience has been exactly like burntime with both a pre epa and a epa insert. They are flushmount and the fireplace opening they have gone in is large. They absolutely needed a fan to generate much if any productive heat at all. Running them without the blower is laughable as you are standing there freezing. When I got my latest insert they mistakenly forgot the blower. It wasn't even on the ticket I had ordered one even though I had paid for it. They said well we are sorry but some people don't order a blower. I told the installers get me a da@m blower I absolutely have to have one. Tony
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
This is one place where the industry may have gone backwards....
Avalon used to make an extended version of their medium unit (945 and other names) which heated extremely well without the blower. But I think they discontinued it - and just make the flush model now. Strange. In our store we really pushed that unit because it made the customers very happy.
Yeah, the Regency is probably somewhat cool since it sticks out a bunch......
Avalon used to make an extended version of their medium unit (945 and other names) which heated extremely well without the blower. But I think they discontinued it - and just make the flush model now. Strange. In our store we really pushed that unit because it made the customers very happy.
Yeah, the Regency is probably somewhat cool since it sticks out a bunch......
I understand you'd really like an insert that doesn't need a fan and I agree that would be nice, but have you considered an insert with a "quiet" blower? One of the things that really surprised us about the Jotul insert we bought last year was the blower fan is really quiet to others I've heard. Good luck.
I have the Avalon 945 without the blower, it heats extremely well. I plan on adding the blower this fall to try and coax a little more heat out for those 20* and colder days.
I think they still offer it, at least they had one at my local shop when I was there looking at blowers.
I think they still offer it, at least they had one at my local shop when I was there looking at blowers.
gpcollen1
Minister of Fire
There are plenty of days that I do not run the fan on my Olympic. Granted, it is a big stove but it does throw some heat with out the blower. I think inserts get a bad rap in this department. That said, with the blower on low you barely hear it and when you need some real heat, the blower on medium to high kicks some serious heat.
I do have a hearth stove too - the Castine - and that one works just fine too. All depends on how much heat you need really.
I do have a hearth stove too - the Castine - and that one works just fine too. All depends on how much heat you need really.
Most points seemt to be covered except...
Is you chimney and masonry FP exterior? If so, I feel there is even more need for the blower.
With the stove living in the FP, as has been stated, the "unblown" heat could be significantly outdoors. With an interior chim and FP, there is a much better chance of reclaiming that heat.
I'm comparing my exterior system with my Dad's interior, (Pre-EPA of course)
Is you chimney and masonry FP exterior? If so, I feel there is even more need for the blower.
With the stove living in the FP, as has been stated, the "unblown" heat could be significantly outdoors. With an interior chim and FP, there is a much better chance of reclaiming that heat.
I'm comparing my exterior system with my Dad's interior, (Pre-EPA of course)
Bone1099
Member
Hi! I'm jumping threads here to find out about noise levels on fireplace insert blowers. How is the Avalon Ranier (i think also called 945?) blower sound? Loud or not? Anyone have an insert that they love with a super quiet blower?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Don't know about the Avalon, but I am surprised at how loud the blower is on my PE. Seems when you turn the blower down, you get a humm. The lower you turn the dial the louder the hum gets. Anyone know if I could do damage to the insert by not using the blower???
Heating with a Napoleon 1401, I always wondered how it would heat without the fans. The ice storm a year ago gave me that opportunity when we had no power for several days. I kept the stove piping hot, and it did a surprisingly good job of keeping the house warm, though I definitely get more heat with the blowers running.
If you're concerned about the noise, just run the fans on the lowest speed. They are pretty quiet on low.
If you're concerned about the noise, just run the fans on the lowest speed. They are pretty quiet on low.
I had a similar thread going with similar desire.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/44113/
I don't mind using a blower but the thought of everything going up the chimney if it's off (like if the power is out) bummed me out.
It seems there's no shortage of insert stoves that extend into the room a bit like that. Some by 10" or so. There are new ones by Regency, Napoleon, Lopi, Avalon, Quadrafire, Hearthstone, Pacific Energy, Osburn, etc. I settled on a used Englander 24-JC that is definitely a bit more of a hearth stove. The current model Englander inserts are closer to flush.
Oh, and I guess it goes without saying but this type of insert usually means a hearth extension of some kind. Mine will be easy - stove board to start with.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/44113/
I don't mind using a blower but the thought of everything going up the chimney if it's off (like if the power is out) bummed me out.
It seems there's no shortage of insert stoves that extend into the room a bit like that. Some by 10" or so. There are new ones by Regency, Napoleon, Lopi, Avalon, Quadrafire, Hearthstone, Pacific Energy, Osburn, etc. I settled on a used Englander 24-JC that is definitely a bit more of a hearth stove. The current model Englander inserts are closer to flush.
Oh, and I guess it goes without saying but this type of insert usually means a hearth extension of some kind. Mine will be easy - stove board to start with.
We use our Fisher insert with this home made setup. As you can see, it's a big fan and if we run it slow it doesn't make any noise at all. I was conserned that the big fan would take too much heat from the stove and cause creosote problems but we found this is not a problem. You can also see where I welded a pipe on for the stainless liner. It also has insolation and top and bottom bloc off plates. We turned a dangerous slammer insert into a safe efficiant free standing stove. The stove looks much better with the surround off. It does a real good job of heating now with no drafting problems. A stove is much better than a insert.
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