Not sure about cat. convertor

Read the reviews of Woodstocks (there is a dedicated reviews section if you dig around a little), read the posts of the owners. Cleaning off the cat a couple of times a year is not much maintenance. The stove works very well, very economical, very long burn times. Talk to people who know - owners.

Look into Hearthstone stoves... Stone, but no cat.

I think you'll find nothing but positive reviews from the Fireview owners here on the forums. From what I've read, as long as you are burning dry, seasoned wood, you'll find operating a catalytic stove no more difficult than a non-cat. I'm sure there's a small learning curve regarding when to engage the cat, but I can't imagine this be so difficult as to drive people away from the catalytic stoves in droves.

I think it's the added complexity and the fact that the cat needs to be replaced ($$$) every so often that scares people away. It's not a big deal IMO, but I can understand why cats aren't on every stove.

I have a Lopi Endeavor (steel stove non-cat) and just got a Woodstock Fireview about a month ago.
I find the Fireview is easier to control than the Endeavor, but have not yet tested
the Fireview when the weather really starts to get cold.


Todd, I believe has experience with both a Hearthstone (non-cat) soapstone stove and Woodstock (cat) soapstone stove.

b121 said:

I have a Lopi Endeavor (steel stove non-cat) and just got a Woodstock Fireview about a month ago.
I find the Fireview is easier to control than the Endeavor, but have not yet tested
the Fireview when the weather really starts to get cold.


Todd, I believe has experience with both a Hearthstone (non-cat) soapstone stove and Woodstock (cat) soapstone stove.

Click to expand...

I hope you'll follow up with your Endeavor vs. Fireview experiences this winter. I own an Endeavor, and I'm curious to see how the Fireview compares. ;-)

Eisele said:

I am really intersted in one of these woodstock soap stone for my relatives house. They are currently heating with a kent stove that has been burning well for over 20 years but it is not as efficient as these new stoves are today. I have heard great things about these soap stones but I am not to crazy about having a catilytic converter. My question is are there soap stone stoves that do not have a catilytic converter in them. I just dont like the idea of the extra maintence with a Cat. can anyone change my mind?

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Eisele, exactly what maintenance are you concerned about? If you can be more specific, then I believe we can relieve your fears. But please allow me to try anyway.

2 or 3 times each winter we will clean the cat. It takes less than 5 minutes and is so easy a child could do it an do it very efficiently. The first time you clean the cat you will have to remove two shipping bolts. Those do not have to be replaced so that is a one time shot. Here is our procedure:

1. After letting the stove cool (We don't wait for it to be cold. The stove is still quite warm when we do ours. We just use the stove gloves and have never had any problems.) we then lift the top lid (there is a handle on it).

2. After opening that top lid, you just reach in (can do it one-handed) and lift the cat out. The cat is located at the front so the reach is short.

3. I take the cat outside and with a old paint brush, just lightly brush the fly ash off. This brushing takes maybe 5 seconds at most.

4. I then take the paint brush and inside, where the cat was, I brush the fly ash into a small pile and using a hand vacuum, quickly suck that fly ash out.

5. Set the cat back in its place.

6. Close the lid.

7. Relight the fire.

As stated, the whole process takes less than 5 minutes and I know one time I did it in less than 2 minutes very easily.

Now I have to ask; is this a lot of maintenance?

In addition to the above, you will no doubt find that you clean the chimney a whole lot less (if you are burning good dry wood). We used to clean our chimney 3-5 times per year and sometimes more. We put in a new SS chimney at the same time we installed the Fireview in 2007. We have not had to clean our chimney yet! What maintenance?

Good luck.

Pagey said:

I think you'll find nothing but positive reviews from the Fireview owners here on the forums. From what I've read, as long as you are burning dry, seasoned wood, you'll find operating a catalytic stove no more difficult than a non-cat. I'm sure there's a small learning curve regarding when to engage the cat, but I can't imagine this be so difficult as to drive people away from the catalytic stoves in droves.

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Pagey, you are right about the "small learning curve." How small is that learning curve? You have to be able to read a clock. 10-15 minutes after the reload starts burning you engage the cat. End of learning curve.

However, if one can't read a clock, there is one other "small learning curve." You look at the wood through the front glass. When the wood is good and charred, you can engage the cat. End of optional learning curve.

Oh yes. The actual engaging of the cat: you simply move a lever. This is also about the same time you want to begin closing the draft so is extremely simple.


Ah, one more thing here: After installing our Fireview, we cut our wood needs about in half and possibly more!

Wet1 said:

I think it's the added complexity and the fact that the cat needs to be replaced ($$$) every so often that scares people away. It's not a big deal IMO, but I can understand why cats aren't on every stove.

Click to expand...

Here we go with the complexity again! Please read my other posts to answer just how complex this is!

Yes, the cat needs to be replaced every so often. Let's say that the cat needs to be replaced after six years. At $100 or $120, that can work out to a cost of $17-$20 per year. No installation charge either; a child can do it.

To me, the added benefits of clean burns (less chimney cleaning) and less fuel use more than outweighs that small cost. I know we burn about 50% less wood and stay much, much warmer than we did with our old stove.

Backwoods Savage said:

Wet1 said:

I think it's the added complexity and the fact that the cat needs to be replaced ($$$) every so often that scares people away. It's not a big deal IMO, but I can understand why cats aren't on every stove.

Click to expand...

Here we go with the complexity again! Please read my other posts to answer just how complex this is!

Yes, the cat needs to be replaced every so often. Let's say that the cat needs to be replaced after six years. At $100 or $120, that can work out to a cost of $17-$20 per year. No installation charge either; a child can do it.

To me, the added benefits of clean burns (less chimney cleaning) and less fuel use more than outweighs that small cost. I know we burn about 50% less wood and stay much, much warmer than we did with our old stove.

Click to expand...

Dennis, thanks for sharing your experience with your stove. But regardless of what you say, the cat DOES add some complexity to the stove. This, the engaging/disengaging timing requirements, and the upkeep/cost can turn SOME people away. BTW, not all cat are $100-$120, some cost as much as $300(+) and are not as easy to clean/replace.

With that said, my next stove will have a cat because I think the longer and cleaner burns offset the relatively minor cons of having the cat.

That was three replies in a row Dennis! Yes, Dennis is the resident woodstock fanatic and he is very right that they are great stoves.

To answer your question, you can buy a Hearthstone product that is soapstone and has no cat. Only a single little lever to move one way for more air and the other for less air. The place where you will likley find Hearthstone superior is that they offer a stove rated to heat more than a small home, they actually have larger models for medium and large homes. Oh and no cat maintenance or replacement is required at all, though I do agree with Dennis that this is no big deal on the woodstock. The last benefit of the hearthstone line is that you can install them closer to combustibles than the woodstocks.

Cat stoves aren't for everyone. There have been long and heated debtaes in the past about whether or not a cat stove is superior. I have been swayed towards cat stoves over the last couple of years even though I have never run one.

I have burned both cat and noncat.

So far the cat is easy to deal with, although I have only had the stove for 3 weeks. I do not expect difficulty. I second what was said above.

I have burned a hearthstone homestead (noncat). Very dynamic fire. Lots going on from the aurora time effects, to jets of flame spilling across the front of the glass. The fireview has interesting effects too, but I think the hearthstone puts on a better show.

No cat stove for me! Especially when built into a cast iron stove.
Here are my faults with a cat stove, your mileage may vary. They cost more than a good dry cord of wood and begin to deteriorate from day one. They are subject to breakage, overfiring, and junk wood. They glog up and prematurely lose their effectiveness. The cat gasket falls apart and has to be replaced with every clean/check. The bypass door gasket is subject to rapid wear. By design they restrict the flue and cause back puffing if you are not careful and since being careful requires babysitting each and every load and reload it requires more of your time.
I have no complaints with the theory, or how well they work but only with the side consequences. quite possibly the newer ones are improved but I`m not in any hurry to go back to one.
I sold mine off and never looked back after I purchased the PE Spectrum.

Gio, it sounds like you had some big problems but I don't agree with all of your theories. Too bad you didn't say what stove you had.

They certainly do not cost more than a good cord of wood and saying a cat begins to deteriorate from day one is like saying wood begins to rot as soon as it is cut or that the body begins to die as soon as it is born.

Subject to breakage can be said of many, many things. That is pretty vague. The whole stove is subject to over-firing! Over-firing can ruin an entire stove. And what about junk wood? Who wants to burn it at all?

They clog up prematurely? Perhaps you did burn junk wood?! Now what about that gasket? We've had our cat out several times and have yet to replace the gasket. It still looks new. Same goes for the bypass gasket and the bypass does not cause back puffing at all.

Now you might have had to baby sit every load of wood you put in the stove but I highly doubt it was the fault of the stove! It sounds to me like you had a chimney problem along with not very good wood. Also there must have been some flaws in that stove but to condemn that stove you had and to condemn the cat sounds all wrong. Better to condemn the wood and chimney or installation of the stove.

Backwoods Savage said:

Gio, it sounds like you had some big problems but I don't agree with all of your theories. Too bad you didn't say what stove you had.

They certainly do not cost more than a good cord of wood and saying a cat begins to deteriorate from day one is like saying wood begins to rot as soon as it is cut or that the body begins to die as soon as it is born.

Subject to breakage can be said of many, many things. That is pretty vague. The whole stove is subject to over-firing! Over-firing can ruin an entire stove. And what about junk wood? Who wants to burn it at all?

They clog up prematurely? Perhaps you did burn junk wood?! Now what about that gasket? We've had our cat out several times and have yet to replace the gasket. It still looks new. Same goes for the bypass gasket and the bypass does not cause back puffing at all.

Now you might have had to baby sit every load of wood you put in the stove but I highly doubt it was the fault of the stove! It sounds to me like you had a chimney problem along with not very good wood. Also there must have been some flaws in that stove but to condemn that stove you had and to condemn the cat sounds all wrong. Better to condemn the wood and chimney or installation of the stove.

Click to expand...

I can only relate my experiences as they happened.. Actually I had a Dutchwest "Sequoia" (cast iron) and replacement cats were nearly $200 back then. Checking prices now they are at $188.00 plus shipping.
My chimney is a Metalbestos SSII HT2100 straight up thru the roof , and always has a good draft. Stove and chimmney installed to code and mfrs specs and municipal inspection.
I`d have to think/hope newer cat stoves are somewhat improved as most other stoves certainly are are but I had already formed my opinion for CI and cats and in no hurry to return to either.
Oh yeah, the dealer did in fact replace a bad by pass damper casting during the first year and after 3 years he had to dissassemble the stove to re cement cracked joints that might have happened in transit.

For the most part it burned fine if fussed over and babysat but IMO it wasn`t anywhere as user friendly , durable , or fuel tolerent as my PE Spectrum.
Yeah , I am a bit condemning and maybe even slightly exaggerating my disdain for CI or Cat stoves but it`s my opinion based on my experience only. Now it`s possible my experience might be a worse case scenerio but those who overly praise their cat stoves might well be stating a best case scenerio.
Folks need to hear from those with opposing views too. They can sift whatever info the need from multiple experiences and posts/threads.

Backwoods Savage said:

Wet1 said:

I think it's the added complexity and the fact that the cat needs to be replaced ($$$) every so often that scares people away. It's not a big deal IMO, but I can understand why cats aren't on every stove.

Click to expand...

Here we go with the complexity again! Please read my other posts to answer just how complex this is!

Yes, the cat needs to be replaced every so often. Let's say that the cat needs to be replaced after six years. At $100 or $120, that can work out to a cost of $17-$20 per year. No installation charge either; a child can do it.

To me, the added benefits of clean burns (less chimney cleaning) and less fuel use more than outweighs that small cost. I know we burn about 50% less wood and stay much, much warmer than we did with our old stove.

Click to expand...

50% less wood and staying warmer all from a cat?
I could believe 33% less and a similar amount of warmth but 50% and more heat is far beyond it all.
And 50% less than what? Certainly not current non cat stoves.

Gio, you certainly must have had a bad stove. I feel for you on that as it has to be pretty darned disappointing.

It is really funny when I think back to when we were ready to buy a new stove. We'd heard some badmouthing of cat. stoves and we sort of made up our minds that we would not have anything to do with them. However, after looking at several stoves we decided that we really wanted to look at the Woodstock stoves again. We had looked at them many moons ago but didn't want to spend the dollars then as we didn't have too many extra ones.

The first thing we noticed was that the Woodstock stoves had cats! Wow. That surprised us that such a top company as Woodstock would have them when we had heard so much negatives. We checked them further. Long story short, we bought one....and have not been sorry. You do not have to baby sit this stove. Fill it, set the controls and enjoy the heat.


On your second post you questioned our fuel needs. After our first year I decided to not claim a 50% reduction in fuel because that was only one year. However, after the hard winter we had this year, even though we are not done heating, I am now claiming a 50% reduction and yes, we are staying much warmer.

Our old stove was a big old Ashley. No, it was not an up to date stove nor did it have a cat. It threw some decent heat for sure and was easy operating, easy loading, easy emptying ashes, etc., etc. However, we constantly fought creosote with this stove because it had an automatic draft. If we were to be gone for some time and at nights when we filled the stove, the draft would constantly open and close. When it closed, the smoke would sit in the chimney and turn to tar. We cleaned that chimney as many as six times in one year. We burned up to and even in excess of 7 cords per year. We averaged at least six per year. Last year we burned just shy of 3 cords. This year looks like it will be just a tad over 3 cords.

POOK, I'm digging the new name... at least it's getting closer to your roots. :cheese:

Backwoods Savage said:

Gio, you certainly must have had a bad stove. I feel for you on that as it has to be pretty darned disappointing.

It is really funny when I think back to when we were ready to buy a new stove. We'd heard some badmouthing of cat. stoves and we sort of made up our minds that we would not have anything to do with them. However, after looking at several stoves we decided that we really wanted to look at the Woodstock stoves again. We had looked at them many moons ago but didn't want to spend the dollars then as we didn't have too many extra ones.

The first thing we noticed was that the Woodstock stoves had cats! Wow. That surprised us that such a top company as Woodstock would have them when we had heard so much negatives. We checked them further. Long story short, we bought one....and have not been sorry. You do not have to baby sit this stove. Fill it, set the controls and enjoy the heat.


On your second post you questioned our fuel needs. After our first year I decided to not claim a 50% reduction in fuel because that was only one year. However, after the hard winter we had this year, even though we are not done heating, I am now claiming a 50% reduction and yes, we are staying much warmer.

Our old stove was a big old Ashley. No, it was not an up to date stove nor did it have a cat. It threw some decent heat for sure and was easy operating, easy loading, easy emptying ashes, etc., etc. However, we constantly fought creosote with this stove because it had an automatic draft. If we were to be gone for some time and at nights when we filled the stove, the draft would constantly open and close. When it closed, the smoke would sit in the chimney and turn to tar. We cleaned that chimney as many as six times in one year. We burned up to and even in excess of 7 cords per year. We averaged at least six per year. Last year we burned just shy of 3 cords. This year looks like it will be just a tad over 3 cords.

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Sounds more likely now that you mentioned it was an old Ashley.
I went from 4 cords to 2.5 myself. Actually I never saw much , if any difference in fuel consumption between my cat or non cat stoves. I always tried to adhere to a 8 hr reload cycle(3 times a day) regardless of how much coals were left. Both the Sequoia and the Spectrum always had enough coals in the firebox for a restart.
Cheers.

Gio said:

Backwoods Savage said:

Wet1 said:

I think it's the added complexity and the fact that the cat needs to be replaced ($$$) every so often that scares people away. It's not a big deal IMO, but I can understand why cats aren't on every stove.

Click to expand...

Here we go with the complexity again! Please read my other posts to answer just how complex this is!

Yes, the cat needs to be replaced every so often. Let's say that the cat needs to be replaced after six years. At $100 or $120, that can work out to a cost of $17-$20 per year. No installation charge either; a child can do it.

To me, the added benefits of clean burns (less chimney cleaning) and less fuel use more than outweighs that small cost. I know we burn about 50% less wood and stay much, much warmer than we did with our old stove.

Click to expand...

50% less wood and staying warmer all from a cat?
I could believe 33% less and a similar amount of warmth but 50% and more heat is far beyond it all.
And 50% less than what? Certainly not current non cat stoves.

Click to expand...

Just to give you another perspective, I burn the same stove as Dennis and can tell you I have burned on average 1 full cord less per year than I did with my previous Hearthstone Homestead which is a new EPA non cat stove. 3 cords instead of 4 cords. I also noticed longer burns and more heat per load. If you can get 4-6 years out of a cat it pays for itself a few times over.

Preused ufO brOKer said:

cant imagine why a cat stove aint built with properly engineered MAGIC HEAT to control it from overfiring
same for epa stove

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Pooker I couldnt imagine the use of extracting more heat on the BK if the exhaust temps are only at 200F anyways. You need some heat for draft. Thats why double wall is required as a minimum due to temps are too low already. Instead of a condensing High efficiency boiler, you should invent the 1st condensing woodstove with a PVC chimney. :lol: Cheers
N of 60

The reduced wood use is real. My routine with the old non-cat stove (just to keep it burning) was to fill up a big rack inside, and have a full plastic tote next to it. That would last 2 days tops. With the Woodstock the rack alone goes for 3 days. This is about a 40% reduction when compared to the modern EPA stove it replaced. I've been burning continuously for the last 4 months and have gone through less than 2 cords.

What this means is that you load the stove much less frequently, too - and of course split, tote and stack that much less a year. That seems like a pretty big deal to me.

Look, my take on the cat v non-cat thing goes like this. The cat is better technology that reduces the temperature needed for clean burning. It requires a tiny bit of additional care in use. In return it gives much better economy and convenience. Some people have had bad experiences with cats; these stories are pretty often about Vermont Castings or DutchWest products. Maybe the design was bad, or the quality, or the assembly, or.....? Reviews and postings from Woodstock and Blaze King owners show that cats can work very well. Its worth doing a search and reading some of these posts.

On the subject of wet wood. My first year burning wood I got the stove (Lopi Answer) installed in August and purchased "seasoned" wood in September. The next spring the flue was thick with creosote. That year I got wood much earlier in the season and eventually built enough covered storage to hold wood through 2 years. Its just hard for a newbie to believe that wood takes the better part of a year or over a year to dry. It does.

If I had a catalytic stove that first season I probably would have ruined the cat. Since I had already learned about dry wood, that did not happen. In this sense the cat requires you to plan ahead, which you should realistically do anyway. Those that consistently order wood in the fall (for that season) are a lot more likely to have problems with the cat.