water in my Jotul 550

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adisb

New Member
Hearth Supporter
Oct 20, 2009
18
Michigan
This morning I got ready to start a fire for the long weekend and as the kindling was nice and hot, making a bright flame, I noticed that there are water drops on the sides, on the baffles, along the top of the bricks.

Now, it rained last night and temperature is 40 degrees outside. I don't think that it has something to do with condensation or can that happen at this temperature right at the beginning of a fire?

Is it possible that rain got through the top and down the SS liner (25') and into the firebox? I will attach a picture of the top cover and maybe someone can tell me if they notice something wrong.

I had issues with the installers because they did not glue the top plate to the clay liner and am very concerned that this water issue might be relate to a poor installation.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thanks,
 

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cmonSTART said:
I suppose it's possible rain could have gotten in there if the wind was just right and so on. Has this happened before?
Click to expand...

Well, I just got the insert about a month and a half ago and have not seen this before...didn't really rain until now.

The cap looks like it is not strainght and I was speculating maybe that water may get in between the cap base and liner and then down the liner
 
Doesn`t sound feasible, but could that peak be kicking up turbulance? Windy rain or not?
Would like to have seen more of a crown to the top plate, and perhaps a little wider so that the sides could have been bent and capped the structure. Needs to be sealed dont you think?
 
A good application of high heat silicone under the flashing where it meets the clay liner is in order, if only to keep the top stationary, but also to keep any risk of water penetration at a minimum. Also, you may want to look into sealing the cement cap around the liner as well (as ML said) - any of the cracks can allow water into the chimney sructure, and too much (some is always going to enter - it is a porous structure) will bring freeze/thaw cracking.

Condensation is always a possibility, and if the liner isn't sealed at the top, and ideally a block off plate at the bottom, then airflow around the liner can occur at a high rate, and the cooling of the liner can cause condensation to occur. Ther is always air flowing up the liner, and given that it is leaving the house, it is moist. If the liner cools, that moisture can condense.
 
The installation would benefit from a good top cap that has a liner flange and was centered on the flue tile with the side edges bent down to form at least a 1" lip on the sides.

In some heavy wind driven rainstorms, a bit of rain may get in via the cap. In this case it looks like a cheap cap is making the situation worse. The cap and liner are out of plumb. If the wind came from the left of the cap I could see rain coming down the liner. There is no collar around the liner to keep it plumb and resist rain leakage down the outside of the liner. And there is no flange sealing off the edge of the cap.

Order a top cap like this. It doesn't have to be this exact product, but should have a top collar flange
http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent-6dfs-tp-6-inch-duraflex-top-plate/p1023231

After the old cap is removed, center the new cap on the pipe and take a Sharpie maker pen and draw the outline of the perimeter of the clay flue pipe on the underside of the new top cap. Remove the cap and trim it so that there is about 1.5" edge past the outline of the clay flue tile. Then make a diagonal cut from each corner to the outline. Fold the metal edge down to the pen marked outline to form a 90° angle. This will be a flange around the clay tile pipe. Install with a generous amount of silicone or RTV around the liner where it meets the collar. Wipe off the excess and let it set up for a day.

Here's a shot of a Magnaflex cap that illustrates what the cap should look like before installing.
 

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BeGreen said:
The installation would benefit from a good top cap that has a liner flange and was centered on the flue tile with the side edges bent down to form at least a 1" lip on the sides.

In some heavy wind driven rainstorms, a bit of rain may get in via the cap. In this case it looks like a cheap cap is making the situation worse. The cap and liner are out of plumb. If the wind came from the left of the cap I could see rain coming down the liner. There is no collar around the liner to keep it plumb and resist rain leakage down the outside of the liner. And there is no flange sealing off the edge of the cap.

Order a top cap like this. It doesn't have to be this exact product, but should have a top collar flange
http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent-6dfs-tp-6-inch-duraflex-top-plate/p1023231

After the old cap is removed, center the new cap on the pipe and take a Sharpie maker pen and draw the outline of the perimeter of the clay flue pipe on the underside of the new top cap. Remove the cap and trim it so that there is about 1.5" edge past the outline of the clay flue tile. Then make a diagonal cut from each corner to the outline. Fold the metal edge down to the pen marked outline to form a 90° angle. This will be a flange around the clay tile pipe. Install with a generous amount of silicone or RTV around the liner where it meets the collar. Wipe off the excess and let it set up for a day.

Here's a shot of a Magnaflex cap that illustrates what the cap should look like before installing.
Click to expand...

thank you, I appreciate the help you provided
 
That's a beauty of an insert. Good you caught the water coming in early. This is no fun with ice and snow on the roof.
 
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