New Masonry Chimney with SS Liner ???

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leeave96

leeave96

Minister of Fire
Apr 22, 2010
1,113
Western VA
I am still considering my chimney options with my Woodstock Keystone.

Now I am thinking about a new masonry chimny (for astetics) on the exterior of my house with an insulated stainless steel liner to limit creosote build-up.

Any opinions on this approach - the good, bad and ugly?

Thanks!
Bill
 
If you can post pics of 1. where stove will be located 2. outside wall where chimney will located...more detailed answers will follow. #1 bad is this will be most expensive. #1 good is it may look the best (depending on your perspective). #1 ugly is....see #1 bad.
 
If you are just going for looks, I would think about just a brick chase around double or triple wall class A. You could install the stove and chimney, then add the brick chase later..
 
dougand3 said:
If you can post pics of 1. where stove will be located 2. outside wall where chimney will located...more detailed answers will follow. #1 bad is this will be most expensive. #1 good is it may look the best (depending on your perspective). #1 ugly is....see #1 bad.
Click to expand...

I don't have the ability to upload pics - yet. The new chimney would be on the end of a new room we are thinking about adding to our house.

Thanks!
Bill
 
Dakotas Dad said:
If you are just going for looks, I would think about just a brick chase around double or triple wall class A. You could install the stove and chimney, then add the brick chase later..
Click to expand...

I thought about a brick chase around a SS chimney after I posted. This maybe a good compromise. The only problem I can think of is - if I ever have to replace the SS chimney, that might be tough with a brick chase - but I'm still thinking.

Thanks!
Bill
 
leeave96 said:
Dakotas Dad said:
If you are just going for looks, I would think about just a brick chase around double or triple wall class A. You could install the stove and chimney, then add the brick chase later..
Click to expand...

I thought about a brick chase around a SS chimney after I posted. This maybe a good compromise. The only problem I can think of is - if I ever have to replace the SS chimney, that might be tough with a brick chase - but I'm still thinking.

Thanks!
Bill
Click to expand...

Not hard at all. Look at my install link. We swapped out a SS chimney for a classA..
 
It wont be hard if you had to replace it after the fact. Keep in mind, a good class A chimney system "should" last 10-20 years easily if you only burn wood in it..maybe longer. If the top of the chase is capped with a material that can be removed in the future, you may be able to find a black steel door large enough (maybe 24x24") to allow someone to get inside of the brick chase from the bottom, also. I think they sell doors like that at places that do built in bbqs. You could also plan ahead and have a ladder of 2x4s going up along the side of the house inside of that chase. Leave the chase large enough so some poor fool can scurry around in there if need be.
 
I am thinking that if I use a SS liner, then no clearance is necessary between the chase and the house like a new masonry chimney would need. I would only need two inches between the liner and the chase.

Also, perhaps rather than erect a SS chimney and then build a chase around it - it might be easier to build a chase - not unlike an unlined chimney and lower the liner into it. I gather the liners are held in place from the top of the chimney? If that is the case, then when the time comes to replace the liner, simply un-hook the thimble connection and pull the liner out the top - just as it was installed. I would have a tee at the bottom of the liner and a cleanout door at the bottom of the chase too.

Still scratching my brain!

Thanks,
Bill
 
leeave96 said:
I am thinking that if I use a SS liner, then no clearance is necessary between the chase and the house like a new masonry chimney would need. I would only need two inches between the liner and the chase.

Also, perhaps rather than erect a SS chimney and then build a chase around it - it might be easier to build a chase - not unlike an unlined chimney and lower the liner into it. I gather the liners are held in place from the top of the chimney? If that is the case, then when the time comes to replace the liner, simply un-hook the thimble connection and pull the liner out the top - just as it was installed. I would have a tee at the bottom of the liner and a cleanout door at the bottom of the chase too.

Still scratching my brain!

Thanks,
Bill
Click to expand...


A SS liner is only acceptable inside a masonry chimney. You can not place a SS liner inside a chase especially for a wood application. Its either SS Chimney or Masonry with SS liner.
 
Krisrob said:
leeave96 said:
I am thinking that if I use a SS liner, then no clearance is necessary between the chase and the house like a new masonry chimney would need. I would only need two inches between the liner and the chase.

Also, perhaps rather than erect a SS chimney and then build a chase around it - it might be easier to build a chase - not unlike an unlined chimney and lower the liner into it. I gather the liners are held in place from the top of the chimney? If that is the case, then when the time comes to replace the liner, simply un-hook the thimble connection and pull the liner out the top - just as it was installed. I would have a tee at the bottom of the liner and a cleanout door at the bottom of the chase too.

Still scratching my brain!

Thanks,
Bill
Click to expand...


A SS liner is only acceptable inside a masonry chimney. You can not place a SS liner inside a chase especially for a wood application. Its either SS Chimney or Masonry with SS liner.
Click to expand...

This is correct, a class A chimney and a liner are two different things and their use is different. To use a liner you would have to build an actual, functioning, masonry chimney, then retrofit the liner. Expensive and involved as compared to assembling a classA and then adding, at your leisure, a chase of any acceptable material.
 
[/quote]A SS liner is only acceptable inside a masonry chimney. You cannot place a SS liner inside a chase especially for a wood application. Its either SS Chimney or Masonry with SS liner.[/quote]

I thought about that too - just thinking out loud. Don't want to do anything stupid.

Again, not that I would do the brick chase with SS liner, but when you think about it - it's not such a stretch, let me explain my thoughts.

If you have a SS chimney you have basically a SS liner with structure built into and around it. If you have, let's say a 100 year old chimney that is unlined, you basically have a chimney that is really only suitable as a chase or "structure" to hold in place a SS liner. So it would seem to me that if you built a chase of unlined brick that has "chimney like" strength/structure suitable to hold a liner - not unlike my example of a 100 year old chimney, then the only red flag to me would be that the liner be UL103 HT and able to withstand 2100 deg F temperatures. Either way you have a secured stainless steel liner and all smoke and God forbid a chimney fire, are contained within in the inside diameter of the SS vs anything else.

Again just talking out loud.

Thanks again everyone!!!!!!!!
Bill
 
[/quote]you would have to build an actual, functioning, masonry chimney, then retrofit the liner. Expensive and involved as compared to assembling a classA and then adding, at your leisure, a chase of any acceptable material.[/quote]

I hear you! That may be the route I go in the end.

Thanks!
Bill
 
If you want to go a cheaper route - you could go with an interior Class A chimney straight up from stove, through attic, then roof decking. Then build a stone or brick look chase. May draft much better, too.
 
Waste of money.

Do a class A chimney then build a wood chase around it and you can put face brick or cultured stone on it. Will look the same in the end but be a better system and cheaper.
 
leeave96 said:
If you have a SS chimney you have basically a SS liner with structure built into and around it. If you have, let's say a 100 year old chimney that is unlined, you basically have a chimney that is really only suitable as a chase or "structure" to hold in place a SS liner. So it would seem to me that if you built a chase of unlined brick that has "chimney like" strength/structure suitable to hold a liner - not unlike my example of a 100 year old chimney, then the only red flag to me would be that the liner be UL103 HT and able to withstand 2100 deg F temperatures. Either way you have a secured stainless steel liner and all smoke and God forbid a chimney fire, are contained within in the inside diameter of the SS vs anything else.

Again just talking out loud.

Thanks again everyone!!!!!!!!
Bill
Click to expand...

If you read the manual/instructions for that liner, you will find that it would not allow you to install that liner in a chimney in that condition. The manufacturer REQUIRES the chimney to otherwise be functional and safe and inspected, BEFORE the liner is installed. I just helped my neighbor install a Jotul with a liner in her chimney, and that is what the instructions stated as far as condition of the chimney.

A brick chimney is not just a brick shell, and the bricks themselves are not what makes it a chimney, it's the clay flue which must be intact and sealed, along with the fill between the brick facade and the clay liner that makes it a proper chimney.
 
Another question or two:

What happens to a wood frame chase with vinyl siding around a SS chimney and God forbid you get a chimney fire? Will the vinyl around the chase get hot enough to melt or disfigure?

Also, with a wood frame chase, are they strong enough to support the weight of me and the ladder leaning against it when cleaning the chimney?

I am talking about an external chimney.

Thanks!
Bill
 
leeave96 said:
Another question or two:

What happens to a wood frame chase with vinyl siding around a SS chimney and God forbid you get a chimney fire? Will the vinyl around the chase get hot enough to melt or disfigure?

Also, with a wood frame chase, are they strong enough to support the weight of me and the ladder leaning against it when cleaning the chimney?

I am talking about an external chimney.

Thanks!
Bill
Click to expand...

Triple wall SS chimney such as this, http://www.duravent.com/?page=1.php ( I used dura-plus) are rated to be as close as 2" of combustibles. Your vinyl siding is attached to a framed "box" built from 2x4's, attached to the house, and sheathed with plywood. The same as your house. If you can lean a ladder against your house......

the purpose of the fire rating requirement is that, if you have a chimney fire, the chimney is designed to survive it, keeping it inside the multi-layer SS chimney.

and edited to add, I stand on the roof to clean my chimney.
 
leeave96 said:
Another question or two:

What happens to a wood frame chase with vinyl siding around a SS chimney and God forbid you get a chimney fire? Will the vinyl around the chase get hot enough to melt or disfigure?

Also, with a wood frame chase, are they strong enough to support the weight of me and the ladder leaning against it when cleaning the chimney?

I am talking about an external chimney.

Thanks!
Bill
Click to expand...

best to avoid chimney fires in the first place- keep it clean=very little risk

it will only be as strong as you make it, but yes typically the chaise will support you, and your ladder
 
Dakotas I think was trying to say this, but did not point it out specifically.

If you had a chimney fire and the pipe is installed per mfg instructions and with the 2" required air clearances around it, everything outside of that 2" clearance zone should not be damaged. It is tested to contain and withstand a 2100 deg chim fire and not start your house on fire. The chim system might be junk and a bad chim fire but the house will be saved (unless the flames shooting out of the top start your roof on fire...).

I am pretty sure to melt siding from the inside of the chase you would have to get the plywood hoot enough where it would char. In my career I have found 100% of the time when I find melted siding on a chase it is from other sources. #1 is heat reflecting off adjacent windows, #2 is grilling too close to the house.
 
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