Econoburn is recommending using a mixing valve to protect the boiler in addition to the bypass circulator. Why not just eliminate the bypass circulator and set up like a Tarm? Has anyone set their boiler inthis manner?
Piker said:cannot imagine a reason to have both.
cheers
Based on the description of the Econoburn controls, the bypass circulator operates until the aquastat reaches a setpoint of 150. If the bypass circulator is removed the controls need to be change to only use the primary circulator. I am sure this can be done - did Mark tell you how this can be done? As you are probably aware these mixing valves can be expensive - especially for the pipe sizes of 1-1/2" so I want to make sure I don't buy a valve unecessarily.goosegunner said:I just talked to Mark at Econoburn today. I had the same question. He said if you are setting up with storage to use a mixing valve and you did not need the pump they included. He said pump can be used elsewhere in your system but is included for people not using storage.
I didn't get that drawing from econoburn that you posted. Seems odd to return water to boiler only and not storage. Wouldn't that cool boiler down to storage temp if fire is not going?
gg
I just ran the calculation for a Danfoss mixinvg valve with a CV of 20. The head loss at 13 lpm is over 5ft. This is quite high considering the head loss in the piping is 2ft for this flow. Your recommendation makes sense. I was looking at a variable speed pump for the house zones but the economics did not make sense to justify. However if I can eliminate a $100-200 valve it likely will. I will consider your ides. Thank you.in hot water said:Consider using pumps with variable speed control. This is maybe the most efficient and most accurate way to mix and provide return protection. Three way mixing valves or devices are parasitic devices. They use some, maybe a lot, depending on the Cv rating, of the circ energy to overcome the resistance thru then.
By using circs, better yet ECM type circs you move the energy with the least amount of electrical energy consumption and leverage the accuracy of a thermistor instead of a wax cartridge for temperature modulation.
Yes, this may be a bit more $$ on the front end but the energy savings over the next 20 years coupled with the control-ability make this an attractive option.
I have my EKO connected to 500 gallons piped and controlled this way. I used the least expensive solar controller with a VS and thermostatic function to drive this and it included some basic data logging as well as digital readout, hour meter, etc as part of the control.
hr
I like this approach. Did you have to modify the EKO controls to make this work or do the controls only shut the pump on and off? The Econoburn controls the bypass circulator and primary circulator sequentially using relay - I think I could rewire the relay to control just the primary ciruclator to work all the time. If so this option your configuration could work for me.in hot water said:Consider using pumps with variable speed control. This is maybe the most efficient and most accurate way to mix and provide return protection. Three way mixing valves or devices are parasitic devices. They use some, maybe a lot, depending on the Cv rating, of the circ energy to overcome the resistance thru then.
By using circs, better yet ECM type circs you move the energy with the least amount of electrical energy consumption and leverage the accuracy of a thermistor instead of a wax cartridge for temperature modulation.
Yes, this may be a bit more $$ on the front end but the energy savings over the next 20 years coupled with the control-ability make this an attractive option.
I have my EKO connected to 500 gallons piped and controlled this way. I used the least expensive solar controller with a VS and thermostatic function to drive this and it included some basic data logging as well as digital readout, hour meter, etc as part of the control.
hr
wood thing said:I did not get that drawing, in fact I did not get much of anything. Seems like its trail & error at our expense. They are nice people to talk with but frankly I have had more input from this forum. I installed my ecconoburn in March this year and fired all summer. I have done several rebuilds and changes. Thank goodness I do my own work. I think I finaly got it. I will follow this thread to see how you make out.
heat4steve said:Based on the description of the Econoburn controls, the bypass circulator operates until the aquastat reaches a setpoint of 150. If the bypass circulator is removed the controls need to be change to only use the primary circulator. I am sure this can be done - did Mark tell you how this can be done? As you are probably aware these mixing valves can be expensive - especially for the pipe sizes of 1-1/2" so I want to make sure I don't buy a valve unecessarily.goosegunner said:I just talked to Mark at Econoburn today. I had the same question. He said if you are setting up with storage to use a mixing valve and you did not need the pump they included. He said pump can be used elsewhere in your system but is included for people not using storage.
I didn't get that drawing from econoburn that you posted. Seems odd to return water to boiler only and not storage. Wouldn't that cool boiler down to storage temp if fire is not going?
gg
Concerning the diagram, this one of two schematics Dale at econoburn provided - the other without storage. For this mechanization, you are correcct, the boiler will cooldown with the thermal storage temperature. In addition, it is not setup for reverse flow in the case where youre tanks are thermaly stratified.
wood thing said:The by-pass circ is located per ecconoburn manual. There is no mention of a mixing valve. I don't understand the reason for both. I don't have graphics so will try to explain my set up. The primary circ (a) is used to charge storage when the boiler is over 150 and there is no demand at the house. A third circ (b) is installed for the primary loop controled by a demand relay. I also installed a second relay to disable circ (a) and open a zone valve that ties the boiler supply directly to the primary loop. All return waters go thru the boiler. I have been using a simple timer to shut off the boiler after a complete burn (boiler cold - all heat out of storage). Now that its getting colder and the boiler requires more firing, I'm not sure if i will use the timer. Hope this helps. By the way, I like Dale and all have been fast to reply.
heat4steve said:wood thing said:The by-pass circ is located per ecconoburn manual. There is no mention of a mixing valve. I don't understand the reason for both. I don't have graphics so will try to explain my set up. The primary circ (a) is used to charge storage when the boiler is over 150 and there is no demand at the house. A third circ (b) is installed for the primary loop controled by a demand relay. I also installed a second relay to disable circ (a) and open a zone valve that ties the boiler supply directly to the primary loop. All return waters go thru the boiler. I have been using a simple timer to shut off the boiler after a complete burn (boiler cold - all heat out of storage). Now that its getting colder and the boiler requires more firing, I'm not sure if i will use the timer. Hope this helps. By the way, I like Dale and all have been fast to reply.
The manual now states that a mixing valve should be used to prevent thermal shock. My initial plan was to setup somewhat like you have Using a Grudnfos 15-58 for both the byapss (procvided with boiler) and for the primariy ciruclator supplying the thermal storage and in addition use a taco 007 for the zone valves supply the house. The obvious issue without the mixing valve is the potential to get cold slugs of water into the boiler when the primary circulator kicks on - and this will likely happen after long off times. This is the reason Dale recommends a mixing valve and why he uses a caleffi on his home setup. At this point with a mixing valve it is uncessary to have a bypass circulator but it won't hurt. What type and size pipe did you use for your system? I like copper size at 1-1/4" but my wallet doesn't.
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