thinking about a new stove

dougunder · Dec 9, 2010

So, thinking about getting a new (to me) stove.

I got a question or two.

I've currently got a shenandoah r79. If i upgrade to a newer stove will i get better efficiency, longer burn time?

I'm looking on craigslist cause i'm cheap, and lot's of people have more money than sense

Assuming question one is a yes, which of the following would be preferred and why?

Vermont Castings 2477 Dutchwest http://westernmass.craigslist.org/for/2094629545.html

or

Lopi Republic 1250 http://westernmass.craigslist.org/hsh/2096892792.html

I've got an 800 sq ft, well insulated house (cabin is probably a more fitting term)

Thanks

raiderfan · Dec 9, 2010

Where's the PE choice, at??? :coolsmirk:

dougunder · Dec 9, 2010

not on craigslist, i'm not paying inflated retail

Fsappo · Dec 9, 2010

inflated, lol

Geppetto83 · Dec 9, 2010

Are these your only two options? you can have a brand new stove around those prices in other websites! Just my two cents...

dougunder · Dec 9, 2010

well, craigslist is local so no shipping, plus thats just the opener price, prob get it 15-20% cheaper
where might i find similar quality new at this price?

begreen · Dec 9, 2010

Wait until at least February, or spring. This is not the best time to be looking for bargains. They may be a few out there, but the good ones go quickly.

Or get an Englander VL17 for about $380 after the tax credit. That's pretty underflated retail and delivery is free to the nearest loading dock.

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

SteveKG · Dec 9, 2010

I don't know, if I replaced my Shenandoah, I'd probably really miss the thing. It has been heating our home since '75 and is perfect shape. Not airtight, of course, but, man, it is great. It also spoiled me for anything other than a top-loader.

dougunder · Dec 9, 2010

SteveKG said:
I don't know, if I replaced my Shenandoah, I'd probably really miss the thing. It has been heating our home since '75 and is perfect shape. Not airtight, of course, but, man, it is great. It also spoiled me for anything other than a top-loader.

It is a great stove, if a new one can up efficiency, I'll still use the Shenandoah in the barn

dougunder · Dec 9, 2010

BeGreen said:
Wait until at least February, or spring. This is not the best time to be looking for bargains. They may be a few out there, but the good ones go quickly.

Or get an Englander VL17 for about $380 after the tax credit. That's pretty underflated retail.

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

Only 16" logs, no blower, and looks pretty thin walled. Wouldn't want to buy without checking the gauge (i'm a metal worker).

I'd rather get good quality used than bottom end new

begreen · Dec 9, 2010

This stove was designed by a Hearth member and it's made well. Read 48rob's report.

In the CL choices, I would pick the Lopi. With some cleaning, paint and polish, it should be an excellent small stove.

SmokingAndPoking · Dec 9, 2010

dougunder said:
BeGreen said:

Wait until at least February, or spring. This is not the best time to be looking for bargains. They may be a few out there, but the good ones go quickly.

Or get an Englander VL17 for about $380 after the tax credit. That's pretty underflated retail.

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

Click to expand...

Only 16" logs, no blower, and looks pretty thin walled. Wouldn't want to buy without checking the gauge (i'm a metal worker).

I'd rather get good quality used than bottom end new

Ouch, you're hurting my feelings! The stove is all 3/16" HR steel, with the exception of the inner top which is 1/4" HR steel. Low price doesn't necessarily mean low quality!

firefighterjake · Dec 10, 2010

Well one of those choices doesn't seem to be available any more . . . I voted for the Lopi myself . . . but honestly if I was to upgrade and money was an issue I would go with something like an Englander or Napoleon myself vs. buying used and paying the prices that some folks seem to think their rusted out, over-fired stoves are worth during this time of year.

To answer your original questions . . . better efficiency? Yes. By utilizing a secondary burn you are getting a clean burn and more important to us folks who aren't out to save the world -- the combustible products in the smoke are burned which results in a second burn which translates into more heat that would have been lost by going up the chimney.

Longer burn? Honestly . . . it depends. If you take a Pre-EPA stove and choke the fire down you can get a very long burning fire . . . but it is belching lots of smoke out the chimney and not producing a whole lot of meaningful heat. On the other hand if you run a pre-EPA stove wide open or shut the air down just part way even you may end up with a fire that burns up the wood pretty quickly. If you run an EPA stove wide open you will also burn up the wood pretty quickly . . . but if you get the stove up to temp and then shut down the air on an EPA stove what will happen is you will get a fire that will burn intensely (vs. smoldering like an EPA stove would do choked down) and give you good heat for several hours. In my limited experiences having used both types of stoves (one of which was a Shenandoah by the way) -- on an overnight burn you will get the same result in the firebox in the morning -- a bunch of coals . . . the difference is with an EPA stove you will get a decent amount of heat during the overnight burn AND you will not gunk up your chimney and glass in the process.

dougunder · Dec 10, 2010

firefighterjake said:
Well one of those choices doesn't seem to be available any more . . . I voted for the Lopi myself . . . but honestly if I was to upgrade and money was an issue I would go with something like an Englander or Napoleon myself vs. buying used and paying the prices that some folks seem to think their rusted out, over-fired stoves are worth during this time of year.

To answer your original questions . . . better efficiency? Yes. By utilizing a secondary burn you are getting a clean burn and more important to us folks who aren't out to save the world -- the combustible products in the smoke are burned which results in a second burn which translates into more heat that would have been lost by going up the chimney.

Longer burn? Honestly . . . it depends. If you take a Pre-EPA stove and choke the fire down you can get a very long burning fire . . . but it is belching lots of smoke out the chimney and not producing a whole lot of meaningful heat. On the other hand if you run a pre-EPA stove wide open or shut the air down just part way even you may end up with a fire that burns up the wood pretty quickly. If you run an EPA stove wide open you will also burn up the wood pretty quickly . . . but if you get the stove up to temp and then shut down the air on an EPA stove what will happen is you will get a fire that will burn intensely (vs. smoldering like an EPA stove would do choked down) and give you good heat for several hours. In my limited experiences having used both types of stoves (one of which was a Shenandoah by the way) -- on an overnight burn you will get the same result in the firebox in the morning -- a bunch of coals . . . the difference is with an EPA stove you will get a decent amount of heat during the overnight burn AND you will not gunk up your chimney and glass in the process.

Unless i throw some coal it the shenandoah, I'm lucky to get 5hrs out of it. Your right i can choke it way down but its in the teens here, and i got a baby, so i need to keep the house warm. I'd really like to improve this.

You know, i really like the Napoleon, in fact i went as far as calling a local retailer. They quoted me 1500 bucks, for >$200 of steel, and maybe 6hs labor. That's what i mean by inflated! You know their fabricators sure as hell aren't seeing the money. Had it been around $800 i probably would have jumped. The small englander unfortunately take max 16" logs, and i got 4 cords at 18ish, and can buy oak at $150 a cord(i got a guy...), at 16" i gotta pay a premium/be more selective.

Thanks for a very informative post. I'm gonna get the lopi, it's only a year old, that's close enough to new for me.

As an aside, I've seen poking around this site $10,000 as the price to go wood. Where the hell did this come from? I totaled up my costs, and even with the new stove I'm at >$2000. Couldn't wrap my head around that one.

firefighterjake · Dec 10, 2010

dougunder said:
firefighterjake said:

Well one of those choices doesn't seem to be available any more . . . I voted for the Lopi myself . . . but honestly if I was to upgrade and money was an issue I would go with something like an Englander or Napoleon myself vs. buying used and paying the prices that some folks seem to think their rusted out, over-fired stoves are worth during this time of year.

To answer your original questions . . . better efficiency? Yes. By utilizing a secondary burn you are getting a clean burn and more important to us folks who aren't out to save the world -- the combustible products in the smoke are burned which results in a second burn which translates into more heat that would have been lost by going up the chimney.

Longer burn? Honestly . . . it depends. If you take a Pre-EPA stove and choke the fire down you can get a very long burning fire . . . but it is belching lots of smoke out the chimney and not producing a whole lot of meaningful heat. On the other hand if you run a pre-EPA stove wide open or shut the air down just part way even you may end up with a fire that burns up the wood pretty quickly. If you run an EPA stove wide open you will also burn up the wood pretty quickly . . . but if you get the stove up to temp and then shut down the air on an EPA stove what will happen is you will get a fire that will burn intensely (vs. smoldering like an EPA stove would do choked down) and give you good heat for several hours. In my limited experiences having used both types of stoves (one of which was a Shenandoah by the way) -- on an overnight burn you will get the same result in the firebox in the morning -- a bunch of coals . . . the difference is with an EPA stove you will get a decent amount of heat during the overnight burn AND you will not gunk up your chimney and glass in the process.

Click to expand...

Unless i throw some coal it the shenandoah, I'm lucky to get 5hrs out of it. Your right i can choke it way down but its in the teens here, and i got a baby, so i need to keep the house warm. I'd really like to improve this.

You know, i really like the Napoleon, in fact i went as far as calling a local retailer. They quoted me 1500 bucks, for >$200 of steel, and maybe 6hs labor. That's what i mean by inflated! You know their fabricators sure as hell aren't seeing the money. Had it been around $800 i probably would have jumped. Ah, but you're not just paying for the metal and labor to weld it together -- you're paying for the engineering, licensing, advertising, testing, etc. . . . my own take is that they are expensive . . . then again buying a new oil boiler is pretty pricey too. The small englander unfortunately take max 16" logs, and i got 4 cords at 18ish, and can buy oak at $150 a cord(i got a guy...), at 16" i gotta pay a premium/be more selective. On the flip side . . . if the deal is good enough it may make lopping off 2 inches worth it . . . to have something brand new . . . just saying . . . in the end you are the one with the money and you are the one making the decision . . . and truthfully many folks have bought used stoves and have had good luck with them.

Thanks for a very informative post. I'm gonna get the lopi, it's only a year old, that's close enough to new for me.

As an aside, I've seen poking around this site $10,000 as the price to go wood. Where the hell did this come from? I totaled up my costs, and even with the new stove I'm at >$2000. Couldn't wrap my head around that one. Seems very high to me . . . unless these folks are figuring on buying a new chainsaw, hydraulic splitter and maybe an ATV to haul the wood around. . . beats me where the 10K figure is coming from. .

firefighterjake · Dec 10, 2010

Hmmm . . . didn't realize the Lopi was only a year old . . . didn't read the ad originally . . . just looked at the pics and thought the stove looked a bit tired . . . maybe it's just dirty. If this stove is not abused and is only a year old . . . and it has not been abused by over-firing AND it is sized correctly for your home it could be a very good deal for you . . . definitely looks like at the very least the owners didn't know how to operate the stove (or had unseasoned wood.)

Marsh Rat · Dec 10, 2010

I would go with the Lopi. They have a 7 year war. on them so if the door is warped, or anything else it should be covered. I have yet to see a Lopi warp in all my years in the business of selling them. I have seen a few with cracks on the inside but that's an easy fix with a trip to the welder. Alittle metallic black and that stove will look like new.

CTburning · Dec 10, 2010

If what the Lopi ad claims is true, then this is one case of a great bargain on CL. Heck the guy will even deliver the stove. My advice buy it today! A year ago I sold my 30 year old smoke dragon for $325 or $350 and felt guilty about it but the guy handed me my asking price.

dougunder · Dec 11, 2010

Thanks Guys, I'm gonna go look at the lopi today.

while i've got some attention I've got another question.

My old house's chimney connector is undersized, roughly 5.5".

What i did for the shenandoah, was fabricate a stove pipe out of 5" tube with 3/16 wall and roll and weld a bit of 1/4 around the tube where it meets the stove. This works great, and a like that i can wack it with a mallet when i burn a creasote log and any build up just falls into the stove/chimney clean out.

Unfortunately it's very unlikely that this piece will fit on the new stove. So i thought before i start modifying it, i'll throw this out to the crowd and see if anyone has a better solution.

I could chisel around the connector hole to make it 6" and use prefab stove pipe, however it is 3" of solid concrete, and the chance of me keeping it round doesn't seem very good.

begreen · Dec 11, 2010

Good luck with the Lopi, it looks like a good deal. You might be able to keep it at 5.5". How tall it the chimney?

dougunder · Dec 14, 2010

You know, the person with the Lopi never arranged anything

Emailed me back saying they still have it, several email from me later and no response. I'm gonna get a Drolet Savanna, $615 shipped (after 30% taken into account). Seems to be what i need 85% efficient too.

The chimney is 20ft high masonry, re-pointed it this spring. I've never had any draft issues if thats where your going

The stove pipe is roughly 3ftx3ft with a 90deg all tigged together. My last question is probably moot, as i think the Drolet is close enough in height to work with only a minor mod. I'll need to take dimensions when i get home but i think I'm in luck.

For future reference, is there an adapter sold to hook standard stove pipe to an old/undersized connector like mine? What would a non-welder do in this situation?

dougunder · Dec 15, 2010

Well now I'm conflicted. The person with the Lopi finally got back to me, and i haven't yet got the Drolet.
$450 for a year old lopi, with the extras (glass, blower) is defiantly a good deal, but i noticed it doesn't have an ash pan. How much of a pain is this going to be? My stove runs 24x7 this time of year. And i know with my old smoke dragon lack of a pan would make it more or less unusable.

Would it be such a big deal in a new stove? Or should i just buy the drolet? After the tax credit, there within couple of hundred bucks, and the Drolet comes with an ash pan, blower & glass. Is the Lopi significantly better quality? as the price new is close to double the drolet.

I see nothing but good reviews for either stove.

branchburner · Dec 15, 2010

There are plenty of threads here about removing ashes w/ no ashpan - most have no problem once you get a system down.

I think the Lopi has a slightly larger firebox. I'd go for it.

BrowningBAR · Dec 15, 2010

dougunder said:
Well now I'm conflicted. The person with the Lopi finally got back to me, and i haven't yet got the Drolet.
$450 for a year old lopi, with the extras (glass, blower) is defiantly a good deal, but i noticed it doesn't have an ash pan. How much of a pain is this going to be? My stove runs 24x7 this time of year. And i know with my old smoke dragon lack of a pan would make it more or less unusable.

Would it be such a big deal in a new stove? Or should i just buy the drolet? After the tax credit, there within couple of hundred bucks, and the Drolet comes with an ash pan, blower & glass. Is the Lopi significantly better quality? as the price new is close to double the drolet.

I see nothing but good reviews for either stove.

An ashpan is not a big deal. I have three stoves. One has no ash pan and two do. I prefer the stove without the ash pan.

thinking about a new stove

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