Was all decided, until I came here...

Hi MMom, and welcome! I don't have any answers for you, but be patient, someone will be along. Forum is a little slow right now, but you'll get there. JB

Hi MainMom:

I understand your concerns with the VC Encore. I am guessing the "Issues" with this stove you are referring to regard the Everburn Technology. I almost bought a VC Everburn stove, but after reading forums on this site decided not to. I had owned a charming old VC Resolute from the early 80's and was very happy with it, so figured I would go with another VC stove. I researched this site and learned many users reported trouble getting the Everburn to light off, others reported it over fires inexplicably. I have read that unless the coal bed is very well established and at the correct temperature, it's difficult to get the Everburn to work properly. It seemed way too finicky for my taste so I went with the Fireview after reading very positive posts. I also seem to remember there was a time period that warranty claims were not honored during the transition between VC and Majestic.

Perhaps the Catalytic version of the VC Encore works well and is worth considering? My opinion is to stick with a stove and manufacturer that have excellent long term and current reviews.

Hope this helps, you found a great site for getting real user opinions.

https://www.hearth.com/ratings/search.php
check these ratings of different stoves.

I was leaning towards Vermont Casting but too many bad ratings scared me away, ended up buying a Drolet Eastwood 1900 even though it had no ratings.

Welcome to Hearth.com, MaineMom!

I can't speak to the newer VC stoves. I had an older VC cat Defiant Encore that we had a love/hate relationship with for 23 years. It was a very cranky stove to run. Your best bet for info on the newer VC stoves is to look at the ratings here and also search the forum for threads. There are two flavors of the Encore, catalytic and non-cat, so be sure you're looking at the comments for the type of stove you're considering. The non-cat technology is called Everburn by VC, though some of the folks here who have had problems with it use the term Neverburn. You might try using those two words in your searches.

With your low fireplace opening, the stove selection will be limited. Be sure to find out whether a stove manufacturer offers shorter legs, which are available for some cast iron stoves especially. Since many stoves will be just a couple of inches too tall for your application, short leg kits may make some of those stoves a possibility.

I'm thrilled with the Jotul Oslo we bought 2 years ago. It might be a little big for your application, given the size of the space you're trying to heat, but maybe the smaller Jotul models might work out. I know short legs are available for some of them, but I'm not sure how many inches that takes off (probably around 2 inches).

If you are really committed to having features like warming shelves, that will also limit your choice quite a bit. Only you can decide how important those features are for your application.

I'm sure others will be along to offer their suggestions as well.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide, and how it works out.

Welcome, there is a ton of knowledge here. What kind of fireplace do you have there? It looks to be a heatilator-type. The firebox also looks to be metal on the inside. Have you opened up the damper and looked up to see if you have a clear shot up the chimney?

There will be a bunch of questions from everyone here, but it is to help what will figure out what is best set-up for your situation. Keep us posted.

I have never owned an Encore but I have had a VC Dutchwest for 11 years and my parents have had two of them for over 20 years. We have never had any problems at all with any of our VC stoves. It seems like they get such a horriblly bad rap around here with people complaining that they back puff and won't burn correctly and it always seems to puzzle me as our experience has been nothing but good. All that being said if you are dead set on an Encore I would make sure that it isn't an Everburn model as there have been alot of problems with those stoves (I personally wouldn't consider one). Your best bet is the Catalytic Encore or better yet the 2 in 1 as it seems there have been quite a few good reviews on the 2 in1(see the link below)
Good luck with your decision.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/66655/

Add some measurements of the firebox (h" x w" x d") and hearth area in front of the fireplace opening to get some better advice.

From the pictures, it appears that you will have to add some hearth protection extension out onto/into the wood floors, and to my eyes, the firebox looks quite small and prefabbed.

Cooking on an insert will not possible, you would need a stove sitting out from the firebox to cook.

I would be fine buying a standard cat encore providing you bought it from an excellent dealer, with an A+ BBB rating, NFI Certified techs etc. I like how the Encore burns. The griddle is nice, fits your fireplace and make a decent amount of heat. Mind you, I am not such a big VC fan, but I would feel comfy with a stove like that, partly because I burned one for a number of years. With a stove like that though a GREAT dealer will be your best friend

MaineMom said:

Thank you for all of the replies! Yes, it is a heatilator type fireplace with a metal box that angles up to the front, creating a narrow damper (19 inches wide but only about 5 1/2 inches deep). My hesitation about a cat stove is that I have heard the cats only last a couple of years, and I want to be able to burn just about anything (unseasoned softwoods in a pinch if it comes to pass) which, as I understand, would kill the cat. I also think the oval opening that VC just discontinued in the Encore would work better for us with the narrow damper (thereby avoiding a bunch of connectors which would increase how far the stove came into the room, or cause us to have to machine out the metal liner of the fireplace). The Resolute is another choice for us, but sticks out farther than the Encore.

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To start off I don't understand why you would be planning on burning unseasoned wood. Trust me no matter what stove you have you will experience less than satisfactory results with burning any type of green wood! Here are just a few issues you will expect to have burning green wood with any stove alot of creosote buildup in the chimney, very little to any heat output, massive amounts of frustration trying to get your stove going, Babysitting your stove constantly, Cat won't light off, if non cat you will still have problems getting secondary's hot enough to light off, the majority of you btu's will go to evaporating water not making heat leading to very low efficiency.........As far as burning seasoned softwoods It won't hurt your cat. I burn pine all the time in my stove with no issues.

I burned fairly green wood in my encore. Once the cat was lit I would add some in with the dry stuff. Dry wood is more good, that goes without saying. If the SHTF and we were in crisis mode and you HAD to burn gree wood, you could just open the bypass damper and babysit the stove.

+1 about burning unseasoned wood. While you're stove shopping now is a great time to start getting your wood supply together. A lot of folks get the stove first and then think about the wood, but it should be the other way around.

MaineMom said:

Thank you for all of the replies! Yes, it is a heatilator type fireplace with a metal box that angles up to the front, creating a narrow damper (19 inches wide but only about 5 1/2 inches deep). My hesitation about a cat stove is that I have heard the cats only last a couple of years, and I want to be able to burn just about anything (unseasoned softwoods in a pinch if it comes to pass) which, as I understand, would kill the cat. I also think the oval opening that VC just discontinued in the Encore would work better for us with the narrow damper (thereby avoiding a bunch of connectors which would increase how far the stove came into the room, or cause us to have to machine out the metal liner of the fireplace). The Resolute is another choice for us, but sticks out farther than the Encore.

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Welcome MaineMom.

Just to echo . . . I would not worry about a cat stove . . . I did at first and it was one reason I went with a seconedary burner myself . . . but after hearing from many very happy cat stove users I would not be swayed by whether a stove had a cat or not.

I would however suggest you look at many other stoves along with the VC and keep an open mind. For what you are talking about doing in terms of cooking I suspect just about any stove would work if you were looking at raising bread, doing a stew, etc. I personally like the Jotul line up myself . . . the company is based right here in Maine and they're assembled here . . . but that wasn't my main reason for focusing on them . . . the main reason I went with a Jotul is the bullet proof reliability.

Final thought . . . I would not plan on burning green wood . . . I mean to say . . . burning green, unseasoned wood in either a cat stove or secondary burn stove will not be a good thing . . . while technically you could just not engage the cat in a cat stove and run the air full open on a secondary burner, the truth is you will not get as much heat burning unseasoned wood, the glass will gunk up bad and even worse you will produce creosote. I would not use this line of reasoning as a main point as to whether or not I would go with a cat or secondary burner. I would however be sure to get my wood now . . . or even better . . . last Fall. Garbage in, garbage out . . . applies with what you eat and what your stove is fueled on.

What you actually have is a Heatform, have one here. Don't let the narrow damper limit you. You can cut out the damper to accommodate a regular 6" round liner. I did here myself.
VC have taken a beating here in recent years, although some of it was unwarranted, much of it was also deserved. I think I remember even a recent case of the warranty not being honored.
You will prolly need a rear exit stove if you plan on it being out of the old firebox, and that is the only way you will fit anything like a dutch oven on top.
Or you could got up and into the chimney further above the fireplace and through the wall. Much more prep/finish work there and might not be as pleasing to look at.
Your doing the right thing, research the hell out of everything, make a list of wants & must haves, and try to decide on a stove that will fit your needs. Nothing worse than ending up unhappy after spending a good amount of cash on a stove and install and then being unhappy.
Welcome aboard

I would take a really good look at Jotul. The Castine would be a good part-time heater and with short legs it's 25 and 3/4" to the top of the flu. The castine is rated for 1600 sq ft, Jotul does list up to 8 hrs for the burn time but we find it's realistically about 6hrs. The Oslo will heat about 2000 sq ft and will get alot closer to it's listed 9 hrs burn time. With short legs it has a height of 26" to the flu. Personally i would go with the Oslo as i prefer to always have a fire going and produce as much of the total house heat that i can with a stove.

Not to be too redundant, but the one choice that's a slam-dunk, absolutely, should-do is.....

***** DRY WOOD! *****

The new VC 2N1 Encore has been receiving some good reviews here, if you decide on an Encore the 2N1 would be the one to get.

The cat will last a lot longer than two years if you take care of the stove, which Im sure you plan on doing. Just try to get ahead one year on wood and you'll never have to burn unseasoned wood.

MaineMom said:

grommal said:

Not to be too redundant, but the one choice that's a slam-dunk, absolutely, should-do is.....

***** DRY WOOD! *****

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Yes, got it - I probably should have been more specific. We have a slew of seasoned wood at the ready from an abundant supply for our outdoor fire pit, but if "it" ever happens and I have to go with whatever I can get (assuming things were really bad and I had burned through a regular supply of seasoned wood), then I don't want to kill a stove burning green wood. Glad to know that the cat can be bypassed, didn't know that!

What I think I fell in love with most on the VC stoves is the idea of the warming shelves (namely for rising bread). In thinking it through though, i can see them being more of a hazard than anything. The PE Alderlea is even better because the shelves swing out, but I just don't have room for a top vent stove...

So we are now looking at the Jotul Castine... I grew up with a Jotul so I am comfortable with the operation and quality, though it will lack some of the convenient features of the VC (shelves and top load). If anyone has specific working knowledge of both the Encore and the Castine that would be great! I appreciate all the help.

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The Encore's firebox is larger than the Castine's I think (though Jotul does not publish firebox volume numbers). So, the burn times might be shorter for the Castine than the Encore. I'll let actual Castine users chime in with their burn time experiences.

I ran an early Encore cat for many years, and the design of that stove has not changed much. I run an Oslo now, so I can make that comparison. Burn times are longer with the Oslo, which I attribute to the larger firebox. With the Encore, after 8 hours I had a little bed of coals, and I could bring the stove back with some small splits and work my way back up. After 10 hours it was pretty much done, and needed kindling to get going. With the Oslo, after 8-10 hours there's usually a very good bed of coals with lots of life, and I can just toss full size splits in and be cruising again, and after 12-14 hours there's still enough coals to restart with small splits.

The heat output of Oslo when you really get it rockin' is somewhat higher than the Encore was, but not phenomenally so. I wonder if the Castine has output close to the Encore, or if it's a lot less. With the Encore or the Oslo, we could/can provide 100% of the heat for our 2000 sf home. It's difficult to compare the BTU output numbers from the different manufacturers, so again, let actual Castine owners talk about how much house they can heat with their stoves.

The Encore had a top loading feature, which we really liked, and were initially disappointed that we would lose going with the Oslo. We don't miss it at all, and our house is WAY less dusty with the Oslo, so I think we were getting some very fine ash escape when top-loading. The Encore was a bit more complex to operate, with both a primary air control and a bypass damper. We found it to be a very difficult stove to keep happy, and we had chronic backpuffing issues that we could never solve by changing our operational practices or the attributes of our wood. Others will report trouble-free operation, but we just couldn't get there. I think the stove needed draft behavior from the chimney that we just couldn't give it. In contrast, the Oslo is a sweetheart to run for us. One lever, easy startup without the Encore's open-damper inferno that would come on quickly and needed constant watching during startups. Both stoves had great ashpans, but the Oslo's is larger, which is good.

Our cat elements lasted 5-6 years with the Encore, though they seemed to degrade in performance slowly after the first season, and then rapidly at the end. Our chimney stays cleaner with the Oslo. In addition to the cat element itself, the chamber below and around the cat was made of a very delicate refractory material that fell apart over time. It was in very bad shape after 10 years, and we should have probably replaced it maybe every 7 years or so. The stove has to be at least partially disassembled to do this, so it's not for the faint of heart. The other failure we had was the secondary air control on the back of the stove, which also had to be replaced once. VC parts were quite expensive for us. The company has changed hands a couple of times, so perhaps that's different now.

The Oslo has basically one moving part aside from the doors, and I expect very little maintenance to be needed. Other than door gaskets when they get too compressed, the only parts that would degrade over time would be the secondary combustion tubes in the firebox and the refractory baffle that sits above them. The Oslo has fairly heavy gauge tubes, so I think they will last quite a while, and after 2 seasons the refractory baffle looks like new. Total maintenance after two 4+ cord years has been lubricating the air intake slide with graphite once per year.

Be sure to listen to the operating experience of others with the Castine. From what I've read, most owners are very happy. I've seen a few comments about smoke spillage from the front door during reloading, as the Castine is not a very deep stove. These folks probably had relatively weaker draft. You might still consider the Oslo for your application. I find it to be very easy to dial the stove back to moderate heat output. Even with a full load, if I crank it all the way down, it cruises at 350-400 stovetop but still maintains good secondary burn.

We had a heck of a discussion about a month or two back on the whole breadbaking thing. The few who were stir crazy enough to actually try it....myself included....put the dutch oven inside the woodstove instead of on top. If woodstove baking is your thing, you may want to find a stove that will comfortably swallow a dutch oven and still have room for coals in the firebox. Incidentally, the results were awesome. Woodstove bread rocks.

Oh....and ,yes, I concur.....Dry wood = GOOD --- Green or 'semi seasoned' = frustrating ,at best. I think that after you go to a few (not just one) stove shops and see first hand how the cat stoves run, you will feel much more comfortable with them. They are not rocket science to run.....only require a few simple steps and ....here it is....DRY WOOD. Good luck, MaineMom, and welcome to the addiction...i mean forum.

another alternative to a rear-flue stove would be a 45 degree flue stove. Avalon Pendelton & Ranier come to mind off hand... there might be other 45 models out there that I can't think of at the moment...

Kudos for the Castine. Heated with one for six years and had no problems.As with any stove the burn times and square foot heating capabilities are exaggerated by by the manufacturer. That being said if you are going to use it as a secondary heating source it would "fit the bill". This stove does have the option rear flue placement as well. I think I would be more concerned about the functionality of the stove rather than the options, i.e. warming racks and cook top but thats just my line of thinking...each to their own. Good Luck with your choice.