How to get to over 500º

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J

JGrover

Member
Oct 3, 2011
7
Asheville, NC
www.groverstudio.com
I am a new stove owner--I have the Jotul F100 just installed a month ago. I have done the break in fires using the "inferno" by "condor" thermometer to get up to 400º.
Now I want to get up to 500º or 600º and can't seem to actually get above 400º. The fire starts easily and burns well. We bought our wood at the beginning
of the summer and have it stacked on a rack under cover...and it has the little radial cracks that shows it is seasoned(?)
It is a mix of oak, cherry and an old apple tree that was dead that I cut down early this summer.
I do have to start the fire cold every evening, and have no idea how long it takes to get up to the higher temps, so maybe that is part of the problem.
The owners manual says 400-600º is optimal.

I thought that since today is the first cold day where we are at home all day, I would begin the process early to see if I could get the temps up to range.
But any thoughts would be appreciated on how to get the fire hotter.
I want to avoid the creosote buildup and have the most efficient burn...

Thanks!

John
 
Try a IR gun to see what temps you really have.
I have a 2 story colonial ..2500sq.ft. and I find my stove cruising at 400-450(stove top) heats the house fine.
Keeping your stove going 24/7 is key.
As you know it takes way more to heat up a colder house then to keep it steady.
I don't like the idea of blast furnace fires just to get high stove top temps.
 
As it gets colder outside your draft will improve and the temps will should go up too.
 
One thing you need to try is putting the thermo high on the side of the stove and checking the temp. The lattice top of the F100 allows air to circulate under the thermo giving inaccurate readings. Your stove is probably burning hotter than you are seeing.
 
like HotCoals mentioned above, try to buy or borrow an infra red thermometer (IR).......we have been discussing how these stovetop thermometers are sometimes far from accurate, and BrotherBart brought up a good point too.....find a place on the stove where you can get your thermometer or IR gun against the firebox, away from the sheild and moving air.......should get a more accurate reading there....
 
Definately marginal wood. If ya got Oak at the beginning of the summer, it definately isnt ready to burn efficiently, but it will burn. Thermometer placement could also help also. Is the stove smoking a lot, not just at startup, but thruout the burn. Try some dry pallet pieces in the stove,,,see if it gets any hotter, definately should. But please watch them carefully, they get ultra hot, very fast. Good luck.
 
Joey said:
Definately marginal wood. If ya got Oak at the beginning of the summer, it definately isnt ready to burn efficiently, but it will burn. Thermometer placement could also help also. Is the stove smoking a lot, not just at startup, but thruout the burn. Try some dry pallet pieces in the stove,,,see if it gets any hotter, definately should. But please watch them carefully, they get ultra hot, very fast. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Good point Joey, oak takes more than a couple of months to season, esp. if you don't split it right away.....sometimes oak can stay wet for years!..It may pay to get some good dry maple and ash, to mix in with your oak.....and like Joey said, get some pallet wood or some leftover 2x4 pine scraps (not pressure treated, just regular stuff)...you will see an immediate difference in getting it warmed up and fast!
 
Either your therm isnt giving you an accurate reading because of lack of contact with the top or you arent burning it right. Try searching the "Top-Down" fire. It is by far the best way I have found the get the beast up to temps quickly.

Typically, I start with a few medium size splits faced north south on the bottom, then medium sized kindling on top that faced EW, the some small kindling on top that. Place your firestarter of choice on the bottom close to the front of the stove. Light it up, keep the door cracked a few inches until the fire gets going, shut the door, leave air wide open until you see that most of the wood has caught, then slowly start to damper it down. But keep it burning hot! I hardly ever let my flames get lazy on a kindling fire. During the peak of this period, you should see stove top temps of at least 400-500 degs. At least I do. Once everything has settled down and your temps start dropping around 300-350, most of your wood should be just about all in coal form right now, rake the hot coals to the front of the stove, then stack her to the gills and let the fun begin.

A good sign that you are burning too "cold" is you will have black glass and firebrick. If this is the case, you arent burning nearly hot enough.

Just keep playing with it. It took me nearly a whole burning season to get used to how my stove burns. Now, I almost do it without looking at the stove top temps.
 
JGrover said:
I am a new stove owner--I have the Jotul F100 just installed a month ago. I have done the break in fires using the "inferno" by "condor" thermometer to get up to 400º.
Now I want to get up to 500º or 600º and can't seem to actually get above 400º. The fire starts easily and burns well. We bought our wood at the beginning
of the summer and have it stacked on a rack under cover...and it has the little radial cracks that shows it is seasoned(?)
It is a mix of oak, cherry and an old apple tree that was dead that I cut down early this summer.
I do have to start the fire cold every evening, and have no idea how long it takes to get up to the higher temps, so maybe that is part of the problem.
The owners manual says 400-600º is optimal.

I thought that since today is the first cold day where we are at home all day, I would begin the process early to see if I could get the temps up to range.
But any thoughts would be appreciated on how to get the fire hotter.
I want to avoid the creosote buildup and have the most efficient burn...

Thanks!

John
Click to expand...

John, the key to good fires is always the wood. Getting it at the beginning of summer sometimes is okay but I'd advise you to buy next year's wood now! Stack it so it is off the ground and where it can get wind. Some sun is nice too but wind is most important. If you cover the wood, make sure you cover only the top and never the sides or ends.

As for the cracks on the ends, they tell you only that the end of the log is dry but say nothing for what is inside. Split some open and you'll see a big difference. As for the oak, I'd say that will not be ready to burn this year. Cherry and apple should be okay. Save the apple for the coldest part of the winter if possible.

Having to start a cold stove every evening will have a big bearing on how hot you get the stove. Is there a reason you don't burn full time other than at this time of they year many times a full time fire is not needed. That will end soon!

As for the creosote, make sure you check your chimney monthly in your first year or two years of burning wood. Better to check and find that it is not needed than to neglect and have a chimney fire.

One more thing that folks seem to misunderstand about getting the stove hot is to burn with the draft full open. Full open is necessary to get the fire started but if you leave it there expecting the stove to heat up fast, you'll be disappointed. The reason is that most of the heat goes right up the chimney. The draft needs to be partically closed in order for the stove to get hotter. We usually have our draft half closed within 10-15 minutes and sometimes sooner.

Good luck.
 
I'd say it depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes my stove will flatten off with the draft wide open and sometimes it will climb with the draft wide open. Usually it climbs when damp down thou if the fires goin good.
 
Right, partially close the draft and the stove top will heat much faster. Full open sends most everything, including the heat, up the chimney. Once you get the chimney warmed, dial it down.
 
This was my very question that I was going to post about as well,stoves are different I have a woodstock fireview,
but desired results are the same,how to get more heat in the firebox,get those temps up,and get some long burns in.
Well in my case, after all my reading here it's my wood,just not quite prime time yet. I can hit 400 or so, never been higher than 450 and that was short lived.

So I am resigned to the fact that this year will be a bit difficult with my wood and I will have to figure out how to run the stove on my less than wonderful wood,
silver lining for me is 2 cords of sugar maple that will be 1.5 years css by next heating season.

I do not have a lower block off plate installed yet wondering if you do,and also curious to hear from the wiser ones if this could be part of my problem.

Goodluck with the jotul,that was the first stove I looked at before deciding to go bigger to try and heat my house.
 
First of all, thanks for all the great replies!

You are right about the thermo placement--the top read 300 with the magnetic, but the top of the side says 450 ish! I went and bought an IR thermometer and a moisture meter at lowes. Wood reads anywhere from 11-15 on the outside. A fresh split of oak is 22-25 measured inside and
the cherry is 18-20. The IR thermometer is very interesting. The stove varies in temperature a lot from the side to the top to the bottom of the front. Front top edge is 250 while the flue joint is 400 and the top of the side reads 460 (all in round numbers from the IR thermometer).

The next thing is the damper issue--after getting the fire going well, I toned down the damper about halfway and get readings about 20º less than with the damper open initially. But now it is hotter than full open after about 10 minutes. Top of the side reads just under 500º. I need to play with this, as the damper closed a bit slows things down nicely, so will have other benefits.

Also--as for keeping the stove going full time, it is a small stove (I think max 8 hr burn time were the specs), and we have a small house less than 1200sf. When we go to work etc, there will be no way to keep it burning, so I think for most of the winter I will be cold starting it in the evening after work unless it is a weekend. I need to find out how often to put more fuel in too. With the damper open, I can put in another split every 20-30 minutes :)
If I can lengthen that time, it may be more possible to burn it all day so that I can get other stuff done besides tend the stove. The damping down may do just that.

Now I get to drive my wife crazy with spreadsheets tracking every change: wood, seasoning time for said wood, damper setting, how long before damper closed and how much, outside temp, and IR thermo readings for all the variables from 5 points on the stove!
It will definitely be a winter of learning about wood heat for us. Not that I really expected to have it be super easy though.
 
What is your chimney setup? The lil pup demands a good draft to perform. Start your fire with a firebox full of small stuff to get a coal bed established. When the coal bed is ready and the stove is down to around 300 degrees load it up and shut the door with the primary air wide open. When it gets to around 400 start closing the air down in three steps. Stop when the air is about 1/4 open and it is gonna be all it can be for around three hours.

Eight hours with the F100 just ain't gonna happen. Most here probably don't realize that the firebox is approximately the size of a shoe box for a pro basketball player's shoes. Well under a cubic foot.

But it is a sweetheart of a stove to burn in and sit and watch with the biggest glass of any small stove.
 
It' refreshing to hear all that you're doing!
You went right out and bought a meter and temp gun.
That means you payed attention to what theses guys told you and acted on it.
It is easy to get caught up in all the diff variables!
On my old non-cat stove I used to close the damper all the way after burning for a hour or so..they have a hole in the center so you will have some draft yet.
You will figure it out where and when to move it where.
You shouldn't have to put some in every hour..maybe every 5 or 6 with your size stove.
Above all saftey first..keep a eye on the pipe for build up.
Would not hurt to have a big bag of baking soda on hand just in case...or a fire extinguisher.
I don't mean to alarm you..most likely you will never use it..but you know the old adage I'm sure!
 
mrfjsf said:
Either your therm isnt giving you an accurate reading because of lack of contact with the top or you arent burning it right. Try searching the "Top-Down" fire. It is by far the best way I have found the get the beast up to temps quickly.

Typically, I start with a few medium size splits faced north south on the bottom, then medium sized kindling on top that faced EW, the some small kindling on top that. Place your firestarter of choice on the bottom close to the front of the stove. Light it up, keep the door cracked a few inches until the fire gets going, shut the door, leave air wide open until you see that most of the wood has caught, then slowly start to damper it down. But keep it burning hot! I hardly ever let my flames get lazy on a kindling fire. During the peak of this period, you should see stove top temps of at least 400-500 degs. At least I do. Once everything has settled down and your temps start dropping around 300-350, most of your wood should be just about all in coal form right now, rake the hot coals to the front of the stove, then stack her to the gills and let the fun begin. A good sign that you are burning too "cold" is you will have black glass and firebrick. If this is the case, you arent burning nearly hot enough.

Just keep playing with it. It took me nearly a whole burning season to get used to how my stove burns. Now, I almost do it without looking at the stove top temps.
Click to expand...

The above advice got my firebox to 740 within 30 min, just 60 degrees from overfiring If I didn't act quickly! Be careful with offering advice on getting someone elses stove hotter. I should have known better.
 
Stax said:
mrfjsf said:
Either your therm isnt giving you an accurate reading because of lack of contact with the top or you arent burning it right. Try searching the "Top-Down" fire. It is by far the best way I have found the get the beast up to temps quickly.

Typically, I start with a few medium size splits faced north south on the bottom, then medium sized kindling on top that faced EW, the some small kindling on top that. Place your firestarter of choice on the bottom close to the front of the stove. Light it up, keep the door cracked a few inches until the fire gets going, shut the door, leave air wide open until you see that most of the wood has caught, then slowly start to damper it down. But keep it burning hot! I hardly ever let my flames get lazy on a kindling fire. During the peak of this period, you should see stove top temps of at least 400-500 degs. At least I do. Once everything has settled down and your temps start dropping around 300-350, most of your wood should be just about all in coal form right now, rake the hot coals to the front of the stove, then stack her to the gills and let the fun begin. A good sign that you are burning too "cold" is you will have black glass and firebrick. If this is the case, you arent burning nearly hot enough.

Just keep playing with it. It took me nearly a whole burning season to get used to how my stove burns. Now, I almost do it without looking at the stove top temps.
Click to expand...

The above advice got my firebox to 740 within 30 min, just 60 degrees from overfiring If I didn't act quickly! Be careful with offering advice on getting someone elses stove hotter. I should have known better.
Click to expand...
That is good advice, loading it to the gills is asking for trouble unless you are familar with your stove, giving advice on a forum about wood burners can be tricky.
 
JGrover said:
First of all, thanks for all the great replies!

With the damper open, I can put in another split every 20-30 minutes :)
If I can lengthen that time, it may be more possible to burn it all day so that I can get other stuff done besides tend the stove.
Click to expand...


I would also not reccomend this procedure. You want to load her up, maybe not to the gills yet, and run her in cycles. Todays stoves IMHO are designed and run MUCH better in cycles. Get her loaded, get her going, close her down a bit, and get to whatever else you need to do. The question then becomes, when do you reload. That answer is easy, when you get chilly, or in my case, when the temp drops to the point where I know the wife is going to be chilly.

Shawn
 
Stax said:
mrfjsf said:
Either your therm isnt giving you an accurate reading because of lack of contact with the top or you arent burning it right. Try searching the "Top-Down" fire. It is by far the best way I have found the get the beast up to temps quickly.

Typically, I start with a few medium size splits faced north south on the bottom, then medium sized kindling on top that faced EW, the some small kindling on top that. Place your firestarter of choice on the bottom close to the front of the stove. Light it up, keep the door cracked a few inches until the fire gets going, shut the door, leave air wide open until you see that most of the wood has caught, then slowly start to damper it down. But keep it burning hot! I hardly ever let my flames get lazy on a kindling fire. During the peak of this period, you should see stove top temps of at least 400-500 degs. At least I do. Once everything has settled down and your temps start dropping around 300-350, most of your wood should be just about all in coal form right now, rake the hot coals to the front of the stove, then stack her to the gills and let the fun begin. A good sign that you are burning too "cold" is you will have black glass and firebrick. If this is the case, you arent burning nearly hot enough.

Just keep playing with it. It took me nearly a whole burning season to get used to how my stove burns. Now, I almost do it without looking at the stove top temps.
Click to expand...

The above advice got my firebox to 740 within 30 min, just 60 degrees from overfiring If I didn't act quickly! Be careful with offering advice on getting someone elses stove hotter. I should have known better.
Click to expand...

Where are you measuring that temp Stax?
 
shawneyboy said:
JGrover said:
First of all, thanks for all the great replies!

With the damper open, I can put in another split every 20-30 minutes :)
If I can lengthen that time, it may be more possible to burn it all day so that I can get other stuff done besides tend the stove.
Click to expand...


I would also not reccomend this procedure. You want to load her up, maybe not to the gills yet, and run her in cycles. Todays stoves IMHO are designed and run MUCH better in cycles. Get her loaded, get her going, close her down a bit, and get to whatever else you need to do. The question then becomes, when do you reload. That answer is easy, when you get chilly, or in my case, when the temp drops to the point where I know the wife is going to be chilly.

Shawn
Click to expand...

Agreed. This is not the way the stove was designed and it certainly is not efficient. In milder weather, open the damper, put on 2-3 splits, let them catch fire, then close down the air in increments, say every 5 minutes, until the fire is burning lazily, but not smoldering.
 
The Rutland is measuring top left on box, beneath flaceplate grill where blower emits air. IR gun is pointed at hottest coal in coal bed.
 
Get some Supercedars if you're going to be doing a lot of cold starts. Look for the free Supercedars thread and send Thomas an email. He'll send you a couple of samples and you'll be hooked. Makes starting the stove almost as easy as flipping a switch.
 
Stax said:
The Rutland is measuring top left on box, beneath flaceplate grill where blower emits air. IR gun is pointed at hottest coal in coal bed.
Click to expand...

you don't want to use the IR gun to measure the temp of the hot coals, you want to use it on the firebox somewhere......you can get very very high readings measuring the hot coals, but the temp of the hot coals is NOT going to mean you are overfireing....now if you got a reading of 740 on the top of the firebox (not on a sheild but the firebox itself) then yes that would be close to overfiring....but you will always have a very high reading on the coals themselves.....kinda like a furnace, if you take the IR to a gas-hot air furnace and measure the temp of the flame itself, it will be WAY higher than the heat output at the registers....
 
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