Had a chance to see what poor fuel burns like.......
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BrowningBAR
Minister of Fire
Lewisthepilgrim said:
No extra steps. The northwest and parts of canada only have softwood like pine available. I burned a cord or two of pine last year.
bogydave
Minister of Fire
Very good post. Actual burning dry wood should convince anyone.
The cleaner burning, cleaner chimney, easier to light, more faster heat output would convince most.
My guess he took it to heart & will improve his wood drying process.
Once you've burn real dry wood, it's hard to go back to "the other stuff"
Any dry wood will burn well, some just burn well for a longer time
The cleaner burning, cleaner chimney, easier to light, more faster heat output would convince most.
My guess he took it to heart & will improve his wood drying process.
Once you've burn real dry wood, it's hard to go back to "the other stuff"
Any dry wood will burn well, some just burn well for a longer time
And if you think that pine should not be dried as long as hardwood you are screwing up. Yeah. It will burn sooner. But give it a year or two and it is a world of difference.
Lewisthepilgrim
Member
BrowningBAR said:
wow really??? I've been told by everyone I talk to that pine is a super no no !
I assume it really dirties up your chimney thought correct??
Maybee I'll just save all that good pine wood I have in my backyard then
Lewisthepilgrim said:BrowningBAR said:
wow really??? I've been told by everyone I talk to that pine is a super no no !
I assume it really dirties up your chimney thought correct??
Maybee I'll just save all that good pine wood I have in my backyard then
Nope - dry pine won't hurt you anymore than other dry wood. The only problem with pine relative to more dense soft and hardwoods is the much lower BTU's for a given volume - less heat for the same amount of wood with pine (more frequent loading, etc.) - that's it . Cheers!
bogydave
Minister of Fire
NH_Wood said:Lewisthepilgrim said:BrowningBAR said:
wow really??? I've been told by everyone I talk to that pine is a super no no !
I assume it really dirties up your chimney thought correct??
Maybee I'll just save all that good pine wood I have in my backyard then
Nope - dry pine won't hurt you anymore than other dry wood. The only problem with pine relative to more dense soft and hardwoods is the much lower BTU's for a given volume - less heat for the same amount of wood with pine (more frequent loading, etc.) - that's it . Cheers!
Folks in the north & high elevation areas have been burning pine for centuries, like all wood, it has to be dry to burn well.
A good way to remember it is that ""all wood by ""dry weight" has the same btu"", pine is real light weight compared to oak of the same size. So an equal size split of oak has lots more BTUs than pine,(poplar, spruce etc.)
A pound of oak is allot smaller than a pound of pine. (but same BTU content)
Good thing to know if you buy wood, a cord of pine has about 15 million BTUs per cord (2400 lbs/cord), Oak has about 24 million BTUs per cord (3900 lbs/cord). both 20% moisture content
Stacking cut & split wood up against a cement block wall and tarping it is not going to 'season' wood. Get that wood away from the cement wall, uncover it and let it sit for a year in the wind and sun.
The ONLY time I tarp my stacks are after the first FULL year of wind & sun and then ONLY tarp the top IF you are going to burn it that season.
Oak takes 2 to 3 yrs. around here to season correctly.
Take a read over at the Wood Shed portion of hearth.com for lots of reading/learning: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewforum/27/
As far as bringing wood inside to continue drying - no wood comes in my house to dry - that takes place outside. I only bring in about 2 days of wood at a time to feed the stove and that is after it is fully seasoned.
I don't bring any wood inside until after a frost or freeze - hopefully any bugs on or in the wood were killed by the frost/freeze.
The ONLY time I tarp my stacks are after the first FULL year of wind & sun and then ONLY tarp the top IF you are going to burn it that season.
Oak takes 2 to 3 yrs. around here to season correctly.
Take a read over at the Wood Shed portion of hearth.com for lots of reading/learning: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewforum/27/
As far as bringing wood inside to continue drying - no wood comes in my house to dry - that takes place outside. I only bring in about 2 days of wood at a time to feed the stove and that is after it is fully seasoned.
I don't bring any wood inside until after a frost or freeze - hopefully any bugs on or in the wood were killed by the frost/freeze.
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
Lewisthepilgrim said:
Yeah, go ahead an burn pine, just season it first as you would season hardwood. In my experience one year isn't enough time to season firewood, at least not to season it as well as it can be seasoned. This goes for pine same as hardwood and is based on my experience here in rainy, humid PA - I bet things are a lot different in Montana and most of the west. Also, the way you stack the wood has a lot to do with how fast it seasons. Around here I see lots of wood stacks in the woods (where there is not much sun or wind), covered with tarps and a year or two worth of fallen leaves. Wood stacked like that will rot before it seasons, at least here in PA.
Now see that is where I disagree, some types of wood will dry to the point they will not get any better in one spring-summr-fall drying session, I cut some live cherry trees last spring and had it split and stacked by april 1st, was not going to burn it this year but my trusty MM said it was 18% a month ago. So for all you MM haters I tried some and I am starting fires from scratch with it, no hissing sizzling or spiting just very quick fires and up to a good temp in about 30 minutes from a cold start. In my book it aint gonna get any better than that.BrotherBart said:
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
Lewisthepilgrim said:
First, thanks NH for starting this thread and telling of your experience. That is probably the only way the old school of thought can be turned around.
Lewis, be sure to visit the Wood Shed in this forum for more on drying and stacking wood. Here is basically how we do it:
First, notice that we don't usually stack in single rows but we leave the wood in the stacks for many years before burning so it has the time to dry. If needed sooner, then we'd stack in single rows. Also notice that under the wood stacks are some poles that we cut in the woods. Landscape timbers work good too. The point is to keep the wood stack up off the ground so air can circulate and that bottom row is not getting wet from the ground.
We split and stack wood in March/April; after snow melt. Leave the wood uncovered over the summer and fall but before snow flies we top cover with old galvanized roofing. Tarps can help a little but really do not make good covers. Also, it is important to cover only the top of the stack.
Stacking the wood in the wind is the best thing you can do. Stacking against a wall is not good. Also, if you stack in a woodshed right away, the air can not circulate and it will take longer to dry. We move the wood inside the shed only after it has dried. Remember, wind is your best friend for drying wood.
Mt Ski Bum
Minister of Fire
Wood Duck said:
ya... Montana (& the interior west in general) is alot less humid than the east I think. We generally see pretty low humidities out this way, which probably helps with the faster wood drying time...
Mt Ski Bum
Minister of Fire
Wood Duck said:
ya... Montana (& the interior west in general) is alot less humid than the east I think. We generally see pretty low humidities out this way, which probably helps with the faster wood drying time...
oldspark said:
OS, I want to know the answer to this as well. Just exactly what happens to wood that is "seasoned" as opposed to being just dried? If it's something magical going on, why is it the first thing everybody here tells a newbie with questionable wood to do is to run down to the supermarket and pick up a couple bundles of kiln-dried hardwood? The logic is that this will either confirm or eliminate the fuel as being the problem. Well, that stuff couldn't have been dried faster... or, if you will, seasoned for less time (never mind the fact that there is no way that stuff is as dry as wood properly stacked outdoors for a year).
Now I have to say that when I'm out in the woods, my very favorite wood for a quick, hot cooking fire is small standing dead softwood trees in the 2-3" range. They've been there for God knows how long, the bark is long gone and the wood is very dry and hard. It usually has a thin veneer of punk on it, but that just helps it ignite faster if it is dry (especially with a top-down start).
What I notice about this stuff is that it is unusually hard for softwood. Do many years of wetting, drying, re-wetting, freezing, thawing, etc. have some sort of petrifying effect on the stuff? Who knows? Bottom line is I don't really care. Trying to get the very best out of my stove will have much more to do with the way I learn to run it over time. And I ain't putting wood out there for several years to attempt to tweak out a hypothesized extra 1 or 2% efficiency out of it. And without a test flue at least as sophisticated as the setup I saw at Woodstock Soapstone, how in hell would I be sure I actually achieved it. Could have gone the other way as far as I'd ever really know.
As some of you know, I'm a bit obsessive by nature, but I'm not obsessed. Dry is good enough for me.
FWIW here's a link to a short "Hearth and Home" article from a few years back about wood quality, from a couple of the boys at OMNI:
Hardwood Or Softwood?
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