17-VL, wall quite hot

[joecool85]

I noticed my walls were quite hot while running the 17-VL so last night I took some readings with my IR gun. With the stove at 580F the wall behind the stove was reading 132F and the wall to the side of the stove was all the way up to 193F! The room temp at the time was 79 and the stove had been running pretty much all day (obviously not at 580F all day). From what I have read, the "safe" limit is 115F above ambient. We were at 114F above ambient and our stove is installed 12.5" from the side wall and 8.75" from the rear and we are using doublewall pipe so we are above minimum clearances (11" to the side, 8" to the back). The wall is plaster covered in wallpaper.

This morning the numbers were much better. Stove at 520F, rear wall 96F, sidewall 129F and the room was 71F. So the hottest wall was only 58F above ambient.

I thought that since we installed it by the book and even with a bit extra clearance it would be totally safe, but that side wall temp was quite hot!

Should I be worried?

 

[Jags]

I don't know if I would be "worried", but I would be cautious. You are reaching the upper acceptable limits. To me it sounds like you were running the stove pretty hard to obtain a 79F room temp (albeit I have no idea of how big the room is). Try a small table top fan and get a little air moving behind that thing when you are cooking that hard. I have done it.

 

[joecool85]

I don't know if I would be "worried", but I would be cautious. You are reaching the upper acceptable limits. To me it sounds like you were running the stove pretty hard to obtain a 79F room temp (albeit I have no idea of how big the room is). Try a small table top fan and get a little air moving behind that thing when you are cooking that hard. I have done it.

Jags, the room is 12' x 14' and our whole house is only 1,250 sq ft. It was probably 35F outside, so not real cold and 79 was relatively easy to reach. That said, I don't plan on getting the room up that hot on a regular, 74 is ideal as that keeps the rest of the house ~68-70F. It was loaded up with seasoned softwood (mix of pine, fir and a little birch) and the air control was closed all the way down. It is the upper limit of the stoves range. It's listed as 550F max continuous, 600F intermittent and 650F is overfire.

 

[Jags]

It is the upper limit of the stoves range. It's listed as 550F max continuous, 600F intermittent and 650F is overfire.

The upper limits that I was referring to was of the combustibles (wall). If you find that the wall is repeatedly getting to the upper limits of 115F above room temp, I would consider a heat shield. You don't really want to be cooking that wall THAT hard, repeatedly.
Pyrolysis of the paper covering the rock and wood studs behind the sheetrock will start to happen at that temp. That doesn't mean its going to go up in flames, it is just something that I would be cautious about.

Bottom line - I don't like to run anything (stove, combustibles, cars, etc) at the upper limits on a repeated and prolonged basis.

 

[joecool85]

Englander got back to me with this:

I wouldn't be too concerned with the temps. They all sound pretty
normal to me. The hotter the stove naturally the hotter the wall temps
will be. The clearances stated are correct through the safety testing
done through UL. If the temps bother you, you may want to think about
some wall protection just as a piece of mind. I think you are just fine
though.

So I think I will just kinda keep an eye on it and then if it happens on a semi-regular basis I will put in a wall shield.

 

[Jags]

So I think I will just kinda keep an eye on it and then if it happens on a semi-regular basis I will put in a wall shield.

Sounds like a plan. :coolsmile:

 

[begreen]

193F on the wall is hot. I wouldn't be comfortable with that. Was this high temp with the blower running? What kind of stove temps was it running at? What is the corner clearance for the stove?

I may be forgetting, but I don't think we have seen a picture of this installation yet? Did I miss that? If so, could you post a link?

 

[joecool85]

193F on the wall is hot. I wouldn't be comfortable with that. Was this high temp with the blower running? What kind of stove temps was it running at? What is the corner clearance for the stove?

I may be forgetting, but I don't think we have seen a picture of this installation yet? Did I miss that? If so, could you post a link?

No blower installed. The corner clearance is 6", we must have like...12" or so, I don't remember since it was so much higher than the required amount. As stated in the OP, the stove was running at 580F at the time and had been running between 300-450F most of the day and this was around 9pm.

No pictures posted yet, I do have a couple but haven't had time to hook up the camera and transfer onto the computer.

 

[begreen]

I would hook up the blower and continue to monitor. If the blower = a nice temp drop, then I would use it when the stove is being pushed. If not, I would shield the wall. Keep us posted on what you find. This is a great little stove, but it may be able to be pushed a lot harder than UL testing showed. Not sure why, hardwood? Where do you usually read the temps on the stove?

 

[joecool85]

I would hook up the blower and continue to monitor. If the blower = a nice temp drop, then I would use it when the stove is being pushed. If not, I would shield the wall. Keep us posted on what you find. This is a great little stove, but it may be able to be pushed a lot harder than UL testing showed. Not sure why, hardwood? Where do you usually read the temps on the stove?

Temps are read on the top left corner of the right hand side of the stove with a Rutland 701 magnetic thermometer. I have checked it all out with an IR gun and the Rutland is normally reading 25-50F higher than the IR gun, more when the temp starts to come down (I think it just takes a while for the spring to be go back to lower temp readings).

I probably won't hook up the blower unless we end up really needing to. The stove is heating our entire 1,250 quite well right now and the wife isn't fond of a plastic cord being behind the stove/I hooked it up at first and she didn't like the noise even on low. If we do use it I will probably get a rheostat to turn it down with.

 

[begreen]

Good to know that about the blower noise. I prefer a stove running without one, but it does help cool down the stove. But wall shields are quiet and that is pretty nice. I made one out of edge-hemmed sheet metal painted white in the past and it worked very well, but was visually unobtrusive against white walls.

 

[joecool85]

Good to know that about the blower noise. I prefer a stove running without one, but it does help cool down the stove. But wall shields are quiet and that is pretty nice. I made one out of edge-hemmed sheet metal painted white in the past and it worked very well, but was visually unobtrusive against white walls.

The wife is thinking she might want some tile done up on hardibacker. I'll do whatever so long as it is safe For now I'm just going to keep an eye on that wall temp and make sure it stays within reason.

 

[begreen]

That could look a lot nicer. Just what you need, eh? Isn't your honey-do list long enough already with the new one coming?

 

[joecool85]

Isn't your honey-do list long enough already with the new one coming?

Most of that has been finished now, which is good since the due date is Nov 7, could be any day now!

 

[joecool85]

It is the upper limit of the stoves range. It's listed as 550F max continuous, 600F intermittent and 650F is overfire.

The upper limits that I was referring to was of the combustibles (wall). If you find that the wall is repeatedly getting to the upper limits of 115F above room temp, I would consider a heat shield. You don't really want to be cooking that wall THAT hard, repeatedly.
Pyrolysis of the paper covering the rock and wood studs behind the sheetrock will start to happen at that temp. That doesn't mean its going to go up in flames, it is just something that I would be cautious about.

Bottom line - I don't like to run anything (stove, combustibles, cars, etc) at the upper limits on a repeated and prolonged basis.

The wall seems to be normally around 160F with the room at 75F, an 85F difference which is much more acceptable. We'll still probably get a shield in there at some point though.

 

[madison]

Not mentioned but how is this installed? alcove, "kitty corner" or "squared" in a corner? I assume squared?

 

[joecool85]

Not mentioned but how is this installed? alcove, "kitty corner" or "squared" in a corner? I assume squared?

Squared off with 13" to the side and 9" to the rear. I have pictures in this thread: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/82918/

 

[SmokingAndPoking]

193F on the wall is hot. I wouldn't be comfortable with that. Was this high temp with the blower running? What kind of stove temps was it running at? What is the corner clearance for the stove?

I may be forgetting, but I don't think we have seen a picture of this installation yet? Did I miss that? If so, could you post a link?

The maximum permissible wall temperature rise during a UL safety test is 117 degrees over ambient. This temperature rises to 140 degrees over ambient during the flash fire test. Sounds like you're within those limits.

 

[Loco Gringo]

Good thread joe. Good pics too. I really like the break in that you did outside. Stick with us here.

 

[Milton Findley]

I like what BG said about the shield. There seems to be little margin for distraction, one really good TV show and some pitch pine might scorch the wall paper.

I am reading all the way down the list this morning as the puppy wanted me to get up and move to the lodge so she could sleep on me. With the number of posts mentioning wifely vetoes, I am very grateful to have the one I have.

 

[joecool85]

Now that outside temps have dropped it is even better. With the stove at 530F and the room at 74F the wall is 147F. Only a 73F difference, plenty safe.