2 Fireplace inserts with no liner - Sweep says can't clean and unfit to use!?

[2 Old Inserts]

Hello,

I have 2 fireplace inserts, 1 in the middle of the house and another in a family room addition. They are from the late 60’s and early 70’s respectively.

After living in the house for 3 years (and only using the fireplaces occasionally) I finally got around to hiring a chimney sweep to clean out my 2 chimneys. The guy looked inside each insert and told me that they were not lined and therefore he could not clean them.

He said that the creosote would fall behind the firebox and would be a hazard. I do understand this, but how did sweeps clean these for the last 50 years? The house is still standing, so I assume the previous owner did not burn it to the ground.

So, questions for you knowledgeable tree burning folk:

1) Can these inserts be cleaned? If so, how?

• The main fireplace is an Osburn insert and apparently can be removed without too much fuss. So if I removed it then the chimney could be cleaned out, you would think.

2) Should I, can I, retro fit these inserts with a liner? If so is it worth the trouble? Again, the Osburn shouldn’t be too tricky if it can come out.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jatoxico]

You would have to remove the stove to clean it. He could have done that bit it may be that he didn't want the liability or responsibility of sweeping only to have something go wrong. From what you're describing the installs are not to code and are actually dangerous. Just because nothing(as far as you know) has happened yet doesn't mean there couldn't be a problem in the future.

The sweep was steering you in the right direction. Just look up slammer install here at hearth to get an idea of the potential dangers. If you decide to get a liner I would do some research first. Stoves and liners must be matched and you don't want to line with an appropriate liner for a old stove only to have to change that out when you want a new, cleaner more efficient modern stove.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Thanks for the reply!

The insert in my family room has no markings on it, so I wouldn't bother messing with that one.

If I were to get a liner for my old Osburn, would that bring it up to code? Or is there something else that needs to be considered.

 

[jatoxico]

Thanks for the reply!

The insert in my family room has no markings on it, so I wouldn't bother messing with that one.

If I were to get a liner for my old Osburn, would that bring it up to code? Or is there something else that needs to be considered.

Short answer is yes. There are other things you could consider like also adding insulation and a block off plate to maximize output and minimize creosote formation. But yeah, a liner will bring you into compliance and help whatever have to run correctly while being safe. The existing flue needs to be swept good and inspected before install to make sure there's no unforeseen issues..

 

[begreen]

If this were my house I would without hesitation have full liners attached to the inserts. That is a much safer installation and the stoves will perform better in milder weather. Slammer insert installations are no longer accepted.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Image of old Osburn for reference

 

[bholler]

The guy looked inside each insert and told me that they were not lined and therefore he could not clean them.

We will not work on them either other than to hook them up properly with a full liner. There is just to much liability involved. Yes they can be cleaned but many sweeps will not do it.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Understood.

Can you give me a rough ballpark price on what a liner install would cost?

Thanks for the info.

 

[bholler]

Can you give me a rough ballpark price on what a liner install would cost?

Anywhere from $1000 to $4000 depending on materials used and variables.

 

[Stevenmverrill]

I was in your shoes last year, and got great advice from this place!

from a diy prosective:
IF the chimney is less then 2 story's you can get a stainless liner with insulation, and random other install stuff from eBay for under 400$.

the chimney still needs clean good, inspected, and pointed up. then you can run the liner.

one other thing is newer stoves and inserts are so clean, and efficient they pay for them self's in no time if you are buying wood. newer stoves have litte jets that literally set the Smoke On Fire, and use almost all the energy wood has. ( secondary burn) this also keeps the chimney cleaner longer too.

craigslist people pay good money for old stoves for some reason, so that can offset a good bit of the cost of a newer stove.

I bring that up because you may need an 8" liner for the old stove, and a new one may only need a 6". the liner needs to match the stove, so it stays clean, and burns good. (the problem with the existing setup)

knowing what know now of my old set up, and having cleand, and pointed up the chimney. it's nothing more then dumb luck my house is standing.

I think it all through like a car. you got to have good gas, timing, air:fuel, and Scavenging for it to all work right, and not blow up. slammed set ups are like a Honda civic with an 18 wheelers exhaust.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Anywhere from $1000 to $4000 depending on materials used and variables.

Thanks for the info.

I just talked with the sweep and he said the inserts are too old to attach a liner too. They are not certified (I knew that) and really just need to be replaced.

The great irony in all this is that I'm splitting up a huge douglas fir on friday, and I don't have a fireplace to burn it in! I'll have to get this all sorted out before its dry in a year.

 

[mellow]

Some of the newer inserts can produce heat from 1 load of wood for 12+ hours, some for 24 hours depending on what it is heating and other variables.

That old osburn has seen better days, that white above the door means it has been over fired so it is time to get rid of it anyway.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Thanks for the info!

It all makes sense now, I was having such bad blow-by(?) blow-back(?) from one of the inserts and couldn't figure out why. It would only be happy if there was a 5 alarm inferno going in it (which could have burned the room down). That was just hot enough to get the flow going here in the mild Pacific North West winter.

I went home at lunch and actually looked up into the chimney, and it is a huge volume! This really is the Honda with a big dually diesel stack.

There is also a bunch of rusted out steel above the insert, that is part of the chimney.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Some of the newer inserts can produce heat from 1 load of wood for 12+ hours, some for 24 hours depending on what it is heating and other variables.

That old osburn has seen better days, that white above the door means it has been over fired so it is time to get rid of it anyway.

Interesting, thanks!

So that means there was too big/hot of a fire at one point?

Ignorance is bliss, until your house burns down...

 

[mellow]

So that means there was too big/hot of a fire at one point?

Correct.

Take it from someone who had 2 chimney fires with old non-epa inserts like that, it ain't fun. It will sound like a freight train and when you see flames shooting several feet out of your chimney it is for sure a pucker moment while waiting for the fire department to come.

 

[2 Old Inserts]

Roger,

I don't need that in my life.