Correct. Running in updraft mode for long periods of time will damage the stove.
2013 VC Burning Thread
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Charles1981
Minister of Fire
Not with a 1945. Cat mode is with the damper engaged and bybass mode is of course with the damper not engage. As far as damaging the stove in bypass mode as long as I am not over firing the stove how would it damage the stove? I am running the stove at around 400F griddle temp in bypass mode and it runs just fine. Efficient... Of course not but it is a pretty fire. I also burn the stove with the doors open a lot as well.
Thanks again,
Glenn
Thanks again,
Glenn
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
hrmm.... someone else is going to have to chime in but I don't think your stove is supposed to be run with the damper open except to cold start, and to reload and get the stove back up to temperature... It may just be a straight cat stove then and only supposed to be run in cat mode.
You have a LOT of flame and heat going up through the damper housing/casting. That area becomes very hot and will warp at some point. I have seen many, many Encores and Defiants with warped damper housings.
Well that would make sense and I can diffidently see your point on that one. I wondered the same thing though and at least on the outside of the stove the temperature is about the same weather I have it in bypass mode or fireplace (open door) mode.
Thanks again,
Glenn
Thanks again,
Glenn
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
Yea funny, I found the 1945 manual online and it doesn't really say you SHOULDNT run the stove with the damper open but the reloading directions state to "open damper, reload, close damper".
you stove is catalytic only. It is NOT meant to be run with the damper open. It is probably only running well in bypass mode now because you went and plugged up the air feeding system.
You should be reloading the stove. Getting it up to 400-500 stove top, and then closing the damper, and letting the catalyst do its work.
Your stove was not meant to run without a catalyst or to run with the damper open.
you stove is catalytic only. It is NOT meant to be run with the damper open. It is probably only running well in bypass mode now because you went and plugged up the air feeding system.
You should be reloading the stove. Getting it up to 400-500 stove top, and then closing the damper, and letting the catalyst do its work.
Your stove was not meant to run without a catalyst or to run with the damper open.
Charles with all due respect that is just not correct. Plugging the holes did not change the burning characteristics one little bit in bypass mode, only in CAT mode. As far as the stove being meant to be run with the damper open or closed, it is rather hard to burn the stove in fireplace mode with the damper closed. Well I take that back. It is really pretty easy to burn it in fireplace mode with the damper closed but it kind of smokes the hell out of your house and gives you very few options other then to open all the windows. 
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
yes... but then you aren't really using the stove as a wood stove. Dis-regarding running the stove as a fireplace, it isn't meant to be run in bypass mode nor without a cat. Your issues with the stove have been regarding running it as a wood stove correct?
I can't disagree with that. I am just saying that as long as I am not heating up the cast iron to temps that could warp or damage it I shouldn't be hurting the stove. I am looking at it this way. If I want a nice efficient burn then of course I go CAT mode. If I want a nice fire where my glass looks nice and clean I run in bypass mode. What I need is one of the newer model stoves so that when I run in non-cat mode I am still running somewhat efficiently.
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
My stove is very similar design...not quite the same but If i leave the damper open for 30-40 minutes the stove heats up to over 800 degrees and starts to glow. It has happened twice it is scary, not fun, and may cause damage in the long run. That is typically the course of burning with the bypass open.
If you are burning with the bypass open and the stove reaches 400 and just kind of stays there...something isn't right.
Unless this is "fireplace" mode with the front doors open.
If you are burning with the bypass open and the stove reaches 400 and just kind of stays there...something isn't right.
Unless this is "fireplace" mode with the front doors open.
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
I am sorry, just trying to be helpful. I will not offer my input any further regarding the matter...
Time to calm down a bit. Communicating over the internet is sometimes hard, so cut some slack here. Running in bypass mode is dramtatically reducing the stove efficiency and sending a lot of heat up the flue. Folks here are just trying to undestand why and to see if there is a way to get back to proper running of the stove.
Agreed. Would you guys say that the Encore's keep their glass a little cleaner then the Defiants?
Thanks again,
Glenn
Thanks again,
Glenn
For me, it seems to be the same. The Defiant tends to get soot spots when a split is touching the glass. Since the doors and firebox are so much larger than the Encore, splits against the glass happen more on the Defiant than the Encore.
Excavator
Feeling the Heat
I blame my over fire problems causing the damage. Since I adjusted my secondary coil to 3 o clock position I have zero problems with stove running away with high temps
Mine is 0028 model
Mine is 0028 model
Lets all be friends guys.... the warm front is moving out, freezing rain is here and the deep freeze is on tomorrow for Christmas eve.
Gentlemen, time to lock and load our stoves. Get out that special stash from your woodshed. Its on!
Gentlemen, time to lock and load our stoves. Get out that special stash from your woodshed. Its on!
Not over here. Next ten days have highs in the 30s and 40s. Mostly seasonal average stuff.
Browning, So just to clarify your standing you feel they are about the same in air wash quality but that with the Defiant you get splits closer to the glass which will soot it up faster then the Encore. Does anyone know if the newer 2-1 stoves are better then these older CAT stoves in the air wash department. Please keep in mind I am not using my stove as a primary heater (that's was our coal boiler is for) and while I want to option to use the CAT and burn the wood efficiently I am mainly going for looks. On another note Browning our current weather blows! I thought it was winter time!
Glenn
Glenn
Hello folks,
It has been a while since I posted here but I have been following this thread (the rebuild part) since I am getting ready to totally rebuild my 2550 and put it to use for the next heating season.
When you talk about dirty glass do you mean black soot or hazy grayish film? I get the haze but never the black soot. On ocassion as BBar mentiond a split will shift and touch the glass, a black spot will develop but it is always gone once the stove is ready for a reload. Keep in mind the 0028 has double glass and i think that is the main reason for the clean glass. When I had the 1450NC the glass would sometimes get the black soot but it was surly due to questionable wood and me trying to close down the air too soon.
Btw jharkin thanks for posting the rebuild details! I will follow it as I work on the 2550 starting in Jan.
It has been a while since I posted here but I have been following this thread (the rebuild part) since I am getting ready to totally rebuild my 2550 and put it to use for the next heating season.
When you talk about dirty glass do you mean black soot or hazy grayish film? I get the haze but never the black soot. On ocassion as BBar mentiond a split will shift and touch the glass, a black spot will develop but it is always gone once the stove is ready for a reload. Keep in mind the 0028 has double glass and i think that is the main reason for the clean glass. When I had the 1450NC the glass would sometimes get the black soot but it was surly due to questionable wood and me trying to close down the air too soon.
Btw jharkin thanks for posting the rebuild details! I will follow it as I work on the 2550 starting in Jan.
Hey Diabel, I am referring to the black baked on stuff. I have yet to get the white fly ash that some of the guys have spoken about. Also I wanted to ask what you meant by the 0028 having double glass?
Thanks again and Merry Christmas,
Glenn
Burner
Member
Just my two cents....When I was running my 2550, my glass was never clean. It always had a dark coating on it, presumably creosote. But in all fairness, I burned the stove really low at 250 consistently. I didn't see flames unless it was to get the CAT up to temp. In fact, I didn't even know that these encores were capable of running with clean glass. The same goes for my Defiant 1945, except I run it at around 350 unless it's really cold then I crank it to 550. By the way, I have gotten incredible burn times from both of my VC's. The Defiant's stack is marginal but it must be ideal since it just went 16 hrs with plenty of coals left over to ignite rather large splits. The encore regularly got 10 hrs running at 200-250. Also, in my experience, these stoves aren't nearly as finicky as my new Oslo when it comes to wood moisture content. I can easily load 20%-25% splits without blinking into the VC's. However, the Oslo really wants 10%-15% or even lower to operate efficiently. Despite the VC reputation on these forums, that am sure isn't without merit, I feel these are great Cat stoves. The 1945 is completely controllable and the 2550 was after I tweaked the primary air intake by surrounding it with tin foil and magnets, essentially making the opening smaller. After I did that the stove was amazing. (I left the EPA holes open on both stoves).
So I lit the stove this evening got it up to 450 and put it in CAT mode. I can see a few flames in there but for the most part it black smoked the glass all up. The stove is burning very well though. My wood is supper dry (four or five years dry) and oak so I am not sure why I am getting the black soot. As far as burn times I cannot complain about them. I put three small logs in there and it will burn all night long. Again I do run the stove on the low side. I can say that after closing the EPA holes and the secondary air inlet I have amazing control over the stove, amazing control.
Thanks again,
Glenn
Thanks again,
Glenn
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