2016-17 Blaze King Performance Thread (Everything BK)

[kf6hap]

Is it piped and insulated in the whole way up? Is it 6" the whole way up?

Use an incense stick to check all joints for leakage.

Where the double walled pipe meets the stove, I had to pack it with door rope as a lot of air was getting sucked in. I also had to caulk the pipe where it enters the thimble at the ceiling.

 

[Gforcefd]

Yep insulated all the way up through the house, triple wall pipe, no insulation in the attict for the 4 foot it passes through, just the shield to keep insulation away. Two possible points of the smell are the probe that seems loose and just sits in the hole, and the double wall stove pipe adapter that doesn't seem to sit all the way down. It is in as snug as I can get it but seems like it could sit down a full inch more if I got mean, but don't want to break anything. Thought about putting in some chimney cement in that area. I love this stove and really really really want to keep it.

 

[Marshy]

Sorry for the delay. Busy weekend. Here is my chimney. I am noticing that I'm getting watery creosote coming back through the thimble if I don't open fire it enough when I load up wood. I need to leave my door cracked until my chimney temp is 400-500. Once this is done, It seems to be ok. I'm still thinking about tearing out the thimble and installing the new one to pitch away from the house slightly so i don't get the creosote rolling down the wall.

A properly installed thimble should pitch towards the stove so the creosote will go back into the firebox.
I'm sorry to tell you this but I think this stove is going to generate more creosote than your is stove. Only solution I see for you is an insulated liner. If it's creating that much in the thimble just imagine what the vertical section after the thimble looks like.

How hot do you run the stove, where do you typically have the air thermostat set?

 

[Marshy]

Do the princess stoves have the same smoke smell problem as the ashfords? I need to call my dealer to come out and give my setup a look over, but if they can't find anything wrong it might be time to look at another stove. I reworked the double wall stove pipe so I now have 3 foot of straight up, then a 45, then 1 foot, and another 45 straight up the interior triple wall all the way out. Somewhere around 20 foot of chimney in total. Draft seems great, but after reloads for a couple hours I still have that sick sweet cresote smell. If they can't find anything wrong or identify the problem I am probably going to take a loss and trade or sell it. No sense in it just sitting their looking pretty if I can't burn with it. Good thing propane is cheap this year.

Yep insulated all the way up through the house, triple wall pipe, no insulation in the attict for the 4 foot it passes through, just the shield to keep insulation away. Two possible points of the smell are the probe that seems loose and just sits in the hole, and the double wall stove pipe adapter that doesn't seem to sit all the way down. It is in as snug as I can get it but seems like it could sit down a full inch more if I got mean, but don't want to break anything. Thought about putting in some chimney cement in that area. I love this stove and really really really want to keep it.

Are you certain it's not the stove curing still? I was surprised how long it took for the double wall DVL and the stove to cure. I thought mine was cured then I left it on high after a full reload with no fans on and it set the smoke alarm off lol.
It's not the hole for the cat thermometer. A hole like that would draw air into the firebox not cause smoke to come into your living room.

 

[Highbeam]

Ok so after some nights of testing something weird is going on. I have my t stat now on the R/M of the normal, this is the highest setting i have had the stove on since 2 years eecially for over night burns. Minus the parts where I run it hot for 30 min to clean the glass. So my setting is higher wood is good, but my cat is acting really low and it is real cold out. the first night i used this setting everything was perfect, the second night and thereafter the cat has been acting real low.

I added a small fan in the room to blow on me not on the stove cause the room was hotter the first 24 hrs. Now tho after a couple of days the stove and the room are not gerting as hot as they did when i orginally turned the T stat up to the new r/m setting. Can the added very small fan be messing things up? It's a small ass windows fan i have on the ground blowing towards me.

Not sure how many times you let the cat stall but doing that can clog your cat with all of the goop that it was unable to combust because it was not active. The first step to clearing that cat goop is getting it good and hot. That "run it hot for 30 minutes to clean the glass" thing you spoke of. Do that for one full hour or more and then let the rest of the load burn down. Remove the cat shield, it just lifts off and clean off the surface of the cat of any ash.

Don't be afraid to use the whole range of the stat dial above the stall point. If you're cold, turn it up! Your new spot between R/M is just 50%.

Even small fans on the ground can make a difference in room temperature.

 

[kf6hap]

Twenty feet of insulated chimney should develop way more than adequate draw. The stove is under a constant vacuum so the little air gap around the cat thermometer and other areas can not leak smoke out! It is likely you have an air leak spoiling the draw of the chimney. An air leak does a double whammy on draw: 1. It cools the flue gasses reducing draw. 2. It "breaks" the vacuum preventing full draw. Developing adequate draw is the key to getting rid of "smoke smell".

Incense, a cigarette or a butane lighter are just a few things you can use to test for leakage. A candle will work but is messy. Just hold something under it to catch the drips. Test for leakage 20 minutes into the full throttle load char at the beginning of the burn cycle. The flue will be good and hot with strong draw to make finding a leak easy.

Hope this helps, I had this problem too.

 

[Highbeam]

Sorry for the delay. Busy weekend. Here is my chimney. I am noticing that I'm getting watery creosote coming back through the thimble if I don't open fire it enough when I load up wood. I need to leave my door cracked until my chimney temp is 400-500. Once this is done, It seems to be ok. I'm still thinking about tearing out the thimble and installing the new one to pitch away from the house slightly so i don't get the creosote rolling down the wall.

As Marshy points out, the thimble must rise away from the stove so that smoke goes up and out. Also, so that those juices run into the stove. That connection at the thimble should be dripless but I'm not a masonry expert.

I am afraid that you have fallen prey to the effects of flue temp mismanagement. That juice is from condensation. That condensation occurs when the flue is too cold. You are not "all good" just because you have an active cat. You need an active cat as well as enough temperature in the flue to keep the flue above the condensation temperature if you want to prevent the stinky juice. Not sure how folks in super cold climates do it.

 

[Ashful]

Do the princess stoves have the same smoke smell problem as the ashfords? I need to call my dealer to come out and give my setup a look over, but if they can't find anything wrong it might be time to look at another stove. I reworked the double wall stove pipe so I now have 3 foot of straight up, then a 45, then 1 foot, and another 45 straight up the interior triple wall all the way out. Somewhere around 20 foot of chimney in total. Draft seems great, but after reloads for a couple hours I still have that sick sweet cresote smell. If they can't find anything wrong or identify the problem I am probably going to take a loss and trade or sell it. No sense in it just sitting their looking pretty if I can't burn with it. Good thing propane is cheap this year.

Ashfords have a smoke smell problem? Not the two in my house! I think there have been a few (like three) complaints here, of hundreds or thousands sold.

 

[Highbeam]

It's not the hole for the cat thermometer. A hole like that would draw air into the firebox not cause smoke to come into your living room.

As would any hole in the gaskets, stove, or flue ASSUMING the draft remains strong enough to create that vacuum. When I open my loading door I get smoke spillage which tells me that the firebox is not under constant or sufficient vacuum at all times. We all know that draft is stronger at higher burn rates when flue temps are up.

High efficiency means low flue temps, low exhaust flows, and generally toeing the line between allowing enough waste heat to create draft and minimizing waste heat to improve efficiency. BK is aggressive about minimal flue waste so you need a very good flue system to maintain adequate vacuum at low burn rates especially.

Some people are very sensitive to any smoke smell. The BKs are known to smell like smoke since the same funk that mucks up the door glass is also mucking up the door gasket. That muck gets drawn into the door gasket and can be smelled on the outside even though actual smoke is not breaching the seal. If you had an actual smoke leak, you would have a blue room!

Especially with the ashford line, and those other models that have always required a 15' flue, special attention must be paid to the chimney system to assure maximum heat retention and draft strength. Also, too low of a stove setting may not send enough heat up the flue to drive the draft. Turn it up!

 

[Highbeam]

Ashfords have a smoke smell problem? Not the two in my house! I think there have been a few (like three) complaints here, of hundreds or thousands sold.

Yes, there have been more complaints about the ashfords than any other BK on this forum. Is it a problem? Maybe. Or maybe the stoves just require the manual specified chimney.

 

[Marshy]

As Marshy points out, the thimble must rise away from the stove so that smoke goes up and out. Also, so that those juices run into the stove. That connection at the thimble should be dripless but I'm not a masonry expert.

I am afraid that you have fallen prey to the effects of flue temp mismanagement. That juice is from condensation. That condensation occurs when the flue is too cold. You are not "all good" just because you have an active cat. You need an active cat as well as enough temperature in the flue to keep the flue above the condensation temperature if you want to prevent the stinky juice. Not sure how folks in super cold climates do it.

Bingo!

@raypa, our chimney configuration is similar to eachother. The primary difference I see is your chimney is on the outside of your house where as mine goes from my basement up through the house, through my attic and shielded from the outside air. That is an important factor with these stoves because there is constant heat being transferred from your flue gas into the chimney. When it's on the outside of the house like that it transfers more heat out of the flue gas, cools the gases (more than my setup) and will promote creosote buildup. Aside from potential chimney fires creosote is very acidic and breaks down the mortar joints between the clay liners. Even if you've never had a chimney fire you are at risk of damage to the chimney (eventually). If those joints degrade and then you happen to have a chimney fire the house is at a significantly greater risk from continued creosote exposure (I put you in this category because you said your old stove made creosote as well). I'd be sresiously concerned. Have you had your chimney professionally cleaned and inspected before?

You need a hotter flue temp to stop generating creosote (or a more insulated chimney). Either a different stove or run the stove hotter, if tolerable run it 100% open on high for a reload. I run mine on high probably >90% of the time and only have minor buildup at the top when the ambient air mixes with the gases coming out of my flue. Another option for you would be to run the stove with the bypass open for 15-mins ever time you reload the stove to get heat into the chimney. I'll echo the caution I was given about doing that though, if allowed to run with the bypass open for too long and too hot, it can cause damage to some gasket clips for the bypass door.

 

[lsucet]

Do the princess stoves have the same smoke smell problem as the ashfords? I need to call my dealer to come out and give my setup a look over, but if they can't find anything wrong it might be time to look at another stove. I reworked the double wall stove pipe so I now have 3 foot of straight up, then a 45, then 1 foot, and another 45 straight up the interior triple wall all the way out. Somewhere around 20 foot of chimney in total. Draft seems great, but after reloads for a couple hours I still have that sick sweet cresote smell. If they can't find anything wrong or identify the problem I am probably going to take a loss and trade or sell it. No sense in it just sitting their looking pretty if I can't burn with it. Good thing propane is cheap this year.

I have the princess and i do not have the smell that you talking about plus ny install is similar to yours.

 

[Highbeam]

I'll echo the caution I was given about doing that though, if allowed to run with the bypass open for too long and too hot, it can cause damage to some gasket clips for the bypass door.

You misunderstood the risk Marshy. The risk is that you will melt the bypass gasket retainers. These are actually a welded in part of the stove and not replaceable without cutting and overhead welding.

The little stainless steel clips that retain the door are not at risk.

There is no good reason to run the bypass for an extended period of time after the cat is active and the fuel load is charred. Plenty of heat is available for the flue with the stat set to high for 20-30 minutes per the manual.

 

[Marshy]

You misunderstood the risk Marshy. The risk is that you will melt the bypass gasket retainers. These are actually a welded in part of the stove and not replaceable without cutting and overhead welding.
The little stainless steel clips that retain the door are not at risk.
There is no good reason to run the bypass for an extended period of time after the cat is active and the fuel load is charred. Plenty of heat is available for the flue with the stat set to high for 20-30 minutes per the manual.

I internalized it but clearly didn't reiterate it well enough. Thanks for adding clarifying info.

However, I think if you have the recommended chimney configuration then I agree there is no good reason to leave the bypass open for any extended period of time. If you have a large masonry chimney that is prone to generating creosote then adding heat to the flue is a good thing (doesn't fix the cause of the issue though). The point isn't to damage the stove so moderation and common sense is key.

When I refuel the stove I typically open the bypass, rake the coals and leave the door cracked resting on the latch while I take some wood out of the nearby stack and make a small pile near the door that I'm going to load. I'll load the wood and then leave the door cracked, resting on the latch, and wait for the wood to flame up good. Depending on the coal bed it might be left like this for up to 5 mins before I shut the door and close the bypass.

 

[raypa]

I internalized it but clearly didn't reiterate it well enough. Thanks for adding clarifying info.

However, I think if you have the recommended chimney configuration then I agree there is no good reason to leave the bypass open for any extended period of time. If you have a large masonry chimney that is prone to generating creosote then adding heat to the flue is a good thing (doesn't fix the cause of the issue though). The point isn't to damage the stove so moderation and common sense is key.

When I refuel the stove I typically open the bypass, rake the coals and leave the door cracked resting on the latch while I take some wood out of the nearby stack and make a small pile near the door that I'm going to load. I'll load the wood and then leave the door cracked, resting on the latch, and wait for the wood to flame up good. Depending on the coal bed it might be left like this for up to 5 mins before I shut the door and close the bypass.

So, my black pipe sleaves my thimble. It is not a drip tight seal. How do you seal the pipe to the thimble? My black pipe is as long as the thimble. I'm getting water between the thimble and the pipe. As far as sleeving it, I have a 6x9 clay liner and don't think you can sleeve it.

 

[kf6hap]

Oval pipe :

https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/oval-chimney-liner-kits.php

Somebody else also quoted a source earlier.

 

[Gforcefd]

I will run it even hotter but I have been keeping it at about the 4 oclock range most of the time and glass is staying pretty clean. It isn't smoke it is definitely that sweet creosote smell. I am sensitive to smells as well, but when my wife admits that sometimes it gets down right stinky in the house I know it isn't just me. I will keep investigating. I definitely have plenty of draft when it is going. Never had any smoke spillage on door opening except the one time I left the bypass closed....

 

[Gforcefd]

Also it really should be done curing by now. I have burned it at least 14 full days so far on full loads over the last couple months, probably more than that.

 

[Marshy]

So, my black pipe sleaves my thimble. It is not a drip tight seal. How do you seal the pipe to the thimble? My black pipe is as long as the thimble. I'm getting water between the thimble and the pipe. As far as sleeving it, I have a 6x9 clay liner and don't think you can sleeve it.

You really shouldn't have to seal it to the thimble because if you have that much condensation should not be generated. Putting a band aid on it so it doesn't leak into the house isn't going to make the problem go away. With my old stove I did the same thing you did, just slip a section of single wall into the thimble the length of the thimble. I made sure the seam on the single wall was always at the 11 or 1 o'clock position. You also need to have the crimped ends of the pipe pointing down to the firebox. This will allow any condensation to run back without getting through the joint. If all of your seams have the crimped ends of the pipe pointing in the direction of flow then they are backwards.

How dry is your wood?

Oval pipe :

https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/oval-chimney-liner-kits.php

Somebody else also quoted a source earlier.

Valid point but is biggest issue is lack of space for an insulated oval liner that meets the required flue size for the King.

 

[Marshy]

@Gforcefd, maybe check to see if the door gasket has absorbed some creosote. Highbeam's reply about it becoming saturated and it wicking through the seal and causing odor seems like good advice, something I'd never of thought about. Good luck.

 

[Gforcefd]

^Yeah it definitely is black on some sections. The smell definitely seems to be coming from the top of the stove where the convective heat leaves the top of the casing though. That is why i was thinking stove pipe adapter or probe was leaking the smell, not smoke. I will run it nice and high and see. I guess I can heat the other 800 sq foot of house if it means getting the smell to go away .

 

[Marshy]

^Yeah it definitely is black on some sections. The smell definitely seems to be coming from the top of the stove where the convective heat leaves the top of the casing though. That is why i was thinking stove pipe adapter or probe was leaking the smell, not smoke. I will run it nice and high and see. I guess I can heat the other 800 sq foot of house if it means getting the smell to go away .

The face of the stove gets just as hot as the top surface when its running on high. Its possible that if it was burning off the gasket that it might be rising up right in front of the stove. Crank it up and look for smoke.

 

[kf6hap]

Where do you smell the smoke coning from?

 

[Gforcefd]

The holes where if you have the fans on (I do not currently) it would push air out across the top of the CAT into the room. Sometimes I can smell it directly above the stove as well. I mean there are only so many places that smell can come from. If I run it on full HIGH for a few days straight do you think it would suck that creosote back out of the gasket? Also off topic but it is pretty easy to hear when the thermostat butterfly plate (if that is the right turn) closes right? I think mine is closing at like 5 o'clock on a cold stove, and maybe 4-4:30 on a hot stove. So I want to make sure to not go that low, which doesn't even seem that low on the dial as it is full open at 6.

 

[Marshy]

Keep in mind, while we are controlling the butterfly valve by turning the t-sat knob, it has a bimetallic coil that throttles the butterfly open and closed independently of the air setting to protect the cat in the stove. You could have the stove on high and the butterfly could be fully closed if its burning hot enough.

I would think it the seal might dry out and stop smoking if you burnt a full load on high until it needed refueling. Maybe it will take more than that IDK, its anyone's guess I suppose, maybe highbeam can give you a better idea.