3-39 Condar Probe vs. 3-19 Condar Probe. Test Results.

[charly]

I'm happy with my Tempoint 12-7014 thermometer probe . Had the same prope on my pipe when I use to have my gasification boiler. Worked great. Large easy to read face. I can see the needle from across the room. Nice thing is, you can calibrate the gauge in boiling water. Best price I found was $68.95. Some places want over 90. Has a nice clip that that hangs in the 1/4 inch whole you drill thru your pipe. Then your probe slides into that hanger. Nice interference fit. Tip of the probe should be centered in your pipe.

 

[dave11]

I'm happy with my Tempoint 12-7014 thermometer probe . Had the same prope on my pipe when I use to have my gasification boiler. Worked great. Large easy to read face. I can see the needle from across the room. Nice thing is, you can calibrate the gauge in boiling water. Best price I found was $68.95. Some places want over 90. Has a nice clip that that hangs in the 1/4 inch whole you drill thru your pipe. Then your probe slides into that hanger. Nice interference fit. Tip of the probe should be centered in your pipe.

I've been thinking about getting one of those. They're made by Bacharach, who has a good rep. I believe they're still based here in Pittsburgh.

Do you have a way to confirm their accuracy at higher temps? Above 212F, I mean. Like an IR gun?

 

[charly]

I'm happy with my Tempoint 12-7014 thermometer probe . Had the same prope on my pipe when I use to have my gasification boiler. Worked great. Large easy to read face. I can see the needle from across the room. Nice thing is, you can calibrate the gauge in boiling water. Best price I found was $68.95. Some places want over 90. Has a nice clip that that hangs in the 1/4 inch whole you drill thru your pipe. Then your probe slides into that hanger. Nice interference fit. Tip of the probe should be centered in your pipe.

I've been thinking about getting one of those. They're made by Bacharach, who has a good rep. I believe they're still based here in Pittsburgh.

Do you have a way to confirm their accuracy at higher temps? Above 212F, I mean. Like an IR gun?

No Dave, I'd be shooting an IR gun at a double wall pipe.

 

[Troutchaser]

Thanks, Pen and BGreen for going through all the trouble.
Thats good information.

 

[Todd]

I'm happy with my Tempoint 12-7014 thermometer probe . Had the same prope on my pipe when I use to have my gasification boiler. Worked great. Large easy to read face. I can see the needle from across the room. Nice thing is, you can calibrate the gauge in boiling water. Best price I found was $68.95. Some places want over 90. Has a nice clip that that hangs in the 1/4 inch whole you drill thru your pipe. Then your probe slides into that hanger. Nice interference fit. Tip of the probe should be centered in your pipe.

I've been thinking about getting one of those. They're made by Bacharach, who has a good rep. I believe they're still based here in Pittsburgh.

Do you have a way to confirm their accuracy at higher temps? Above 212F, I mean. Like an IR gun?

Do they make one with a higher range than 1000? Looks similar to Teltru thermometers. What kind of temps do you see?

 

[charly]

I'm happy with my Tempoint 12-7014 thermometer probe . Had the same prope on my pipe when I use to have my gasification boiler. Worked great. Large easy to read face. I can see the needle from across the room. Nice thing is, you can calibrate the gauge in boiling water. Best price I found was $68.95. Some places want over 90. Has a nice clip that that hangs in the 1/4 inch whole you drill thru your pipe. Then your probe slides into that hanger. Nice interference fit. Tip of the probe should be centered in your pipe.

I've been thinking about getting one of those. They're made by Bacharach, who has a good rep. I believe they're still based here in Pittsburgh.

Do you have a way to confirm their accuracy at higher temps? Above 212F, I mean. Like an IR gun?

Do they make one with a higher range than 1000? Looks similar to Teltru thermometers. What kind of temps do you see?

I think I might have seen one that reads higher. Have to look around. My Quad flue temps stay between 600-800 most of the time. The stove top shows 450 - 650. Sometimes I'm matching my flue gas and stove top temps. I almost think I have too good of a draft. I'd rather have a hot chimney than a massive build up of creosote. I come out of my stove with double wall with one 90 into a wall thimble, then into a masonary chimney with an insulated liner, 22ft tall. Chimney cap screen still looks perfectly clean .

 

[Todd]

Reading through all the older posts about this and rereading the instructions they do say to insert the tip in the center of the pipe for accurate reading so if the stem is 4" long and your pipe is 6" maybe we need to pull it out an inch especially with single wall pipe? Double wall pipe is a little larger diameter and has that extra shielding so 4" is probably about right.

I cut my old Condar probe down an inch last year but found it didn't make much difference but maybe that's because the dial was still up against the pipe collecting all that radiant heat? I do notice a lower temp when my new probe is out an inch further and it's also real close to that claim of 50% more the external temps. Too bad Wes999 didn't try this when he tested with his thermocouple.

This still doesn't explain why the older Condar 3-19 probe reads lower unless it was calibrated different to be snug up against the pipe?

 

[pen]

Reading through all the older posts about this and rereading the instructions they do say to insert the tip in the center of the pipe for accurate reading so if the stem is 4" long and your pipe is 6" maybe we need to pull it out an inch especially with single wall pipe? Double wall pipe is a little larger diameter and has that extra shielding so 4" is probably about right.

I cut my old Condar probe down an inch last year but found it didn't make much difference but maybe that's because the dial was still up against the pipe collecting all that radiant heat? I do notice a lower temp when my new probe is out an inch further and it's also real close to that claim of 50% more the external temps. Too bad Wes999 didn't try this when he tested with his thermocouple.

This still doesn't explain why the older Condar 3-19 probe reads lower unless it was calibrated different to be snug up against the pipe?

The probe is meant to sit flush or else I'd say it wouldn't have included a magnet. Also, if it wasn't flush it wouldn't sit in there very well at all on single wall pipe. The probe is supposed to be "ready to go" for 6 or 8 inch pipe.

From their website:

4-inch stem engineered to accurately measure temperatures up to 1700° Fahrenheit, for any diameter flue pipe up to 8 inches. Rugged steel case. Mounts easily through a 1/4 inch hole, magnet and eyelet included

I agree, for some reason they didn't consider the radiant heat of single wall pipe in their claims.

pen

 

[Todd]

Well I e-mailed them to ask about this, will let you know.

That little eyelet allows you to pull it out and still be stable. I made a 1" spacer for my probe and now it's reading like their claims.

 

[pen]

The spacer looks good. Maybe they could simply include one of those to fix this problem the easiest. Although I would perfer it to sit flush.

pen

 

[charly]

Well I e-mailed them to ask about this, will let you know.

That little eyelet allows you to pull it out and still be stable. I made a 1" spacer for my probe and now it's reading like their claims.

Todd, I looked and only find the probe from Bacharach that reads to 1000.

 

[Todd]

Responce from Condar. Now what to do?

Hi Todd,



Just this week our engineers determined that our 3-39, or FlueGard, does not give accurate readings for single-wall fluepipe. We are in the process now of updating all of our published materials that indicate otherwise. I recommend you switch to one of our magnetic surface thermometers like our ChimGard (item #3-4) which does not require drilling holes into the pipe.



Did you purchase a FlueGard from us ?



Regards,

 

[DanCorcoran]

Well I e-mailed them to ask about this, will let you know.

That little eyelet allows you to pull it out and still be stable. I made a 1" spacer for my probe and now it's reading like their claims.

Bummer...I cut the probe to 3" when I received it last year, to read from the center of the flue. Guess I'll just have to practice up on subtracting 200.

 

[Troutchaser]

Wow.
At least the debate is settled somewhat.
If a single wall pipe affects the reading, I'll bet a very hot double wall can influence it as well.

 

[Peter B.]

Condar:

"Just this week our engineers determined that our 3-39, or FlueGard, does not give accurate readings for single-wall fluepipe. We are in the process now of updating all of our published materials that indicate otherwise."

--

Once they're finished updating their literature, maybe they'll 'update' a probe that will read single wall flue temps accurately.

Maybe they could call it the "3-19".

Peter B.

-----

 

[Todd]

Condar:

"Just this week our engineers determined that our 3-39, or FlueGard, does not give accurate readings for single-wall fluepipe. We are in the process now of updating all of our published materials that indicate otherwise."

--

Once they're finished updating their literature, maybe they'll 'update' a probe that will read single wall flue temps accurately.

Maybe they could call it the "3-19".

Peter B.

-----

That still baffles me, why the 3-19 reads lower? They look the same except the face.

 

[begreen]

Looks can be deceiving. Subtle differences in the bimetal coil would be hard to notice. A different source for the parts might also explain the discrepancy.

 

[pen]

That still baffles me, why the 3-19 reads lower? They look the same except the face.

Well, if all goes well there will be another one to compare to shortly

My wife is still shaking her head at me.

pen

 

[Troutchaser]

That still baffles me, why the 3-19 reads lower? They look the same except the face.

Well, if all goes well there will be another one to compare to shortly

My wife is still shaking her head at me.

pen

My wife told me, quite rudely, that I was obsessed with the stove and temps. just this morning. I'll be glad when she goes silent and just starts giving me head shakes there pen.
Of course, I did call home and ask for a flue temp. reading from a questionable probe. ;-)

 

[pen]

Reply from Condar:

Thanks for your email. Your feedback, informed by actual field studies, may actually be correct. The temperature zones on our FlueGard model 3-39 are right for double-wall stovepipe, and Marketing department reports that so far as we’re aware, virtually all customers select this higher-priced thermometer for double-wall installations. Though the product could be used on single-wall stovepipes, the FlueGard zones are wrong for that application, so we’ll delete the idea of using it for single-wall from our Web site and print up new merchandising hangcards for this zoned-dial product right away.



Not long ago Condar discontinued the black model 3-19 probe thermometer which showed no zones. Its instructions didn’t talk about using it on single-wall stovepipes. Consumers wanted the zone. I’d appreciate your take on what the practical “best operation†zone is on single-wall pipe. It would be easy for us to manufacture a thermometer with no zones again, or one showing zones specifically for single-wall pipe, if there’s a viable market for it.



As you know, Condar makes several stovepipe surface thermometers (ChimGard and WoodSaver, for example) that perform effectively on single-wall flue pipe. Our stovepipe surface thermometers have been tested extensively by woodstove engineers around the world, so we believe this product is most accurate for any stove with single-wall flue pipe, like yours. While their response time isn’t as quick as probe thermometers, they don’t need to be replaced after about 4000 hours of use, due to degrading of the probe as explained in our instructions you have. So the higher cost of the probe thermometer and the “permanence†of the surface type have made them the preferred product for single-wall applications.



We’ve seen a trend toward more use of magnetic Stove Top thermometers, like our INFERNO model, where consumers have double-wall installations. Dealers tell us most people like avoiding holes in their stovepipes, and so our surface thermometers with dial-zones specifically for the hotter temperatures of (most brands’) stove tops are growing in popularity.



Thanks again for bringing this important issue to Condar’s attention, and feel free to share our dialogue.

 

[begreen]

That still baffles me, why the 3-19 reads lower? They look the same except the face.

Well, if all goes well there will be another one to compare to shortly

My wife is still shaking her head at me.

pen

My wife told me, quite rudely, that I was obsessed with the stove and temps. just this morning. I'll be glad when she goes silent and just starts giving me head shakes there pen.
Of course, I did call home and ask for a flue temp. reading from a questionable probe. ;-)

My wife told me she was glad to have the probe thermometer back.

 

[begreen]

Hmm. No explanation of why the 3-19 is reading 200 deg cooler. Funny thing is that I chose the 3-19 over the 3-39 because I don't like garish scales on my thermometer and prefer the understated appearance of the older style. That's why I bought it over the newer style.

FWIW, I had the feeling of talking to a brick wall when communicating with Condar and finally stopped. Ironically, I just got a very expensive color catalog mailing from them. Looks like it was designed to compete with LL Bean Home, filled with log carriers and the like. I noticed that thermometers were pushed to the back pages. It's now in the recycling bin.

 

[pen]

It will be interesting to see if the I actually get a 3-19 as I ordered, and not a 3-39. And secondly to see if it reads just as yours did.

What's funny is it will end up taking longer to get this thermometer from a local about 120 miles from my home than it took to receive yours 2000 miles from me. Go figure.

pen

 

[begreen]

Gotta love the USPS. It's the best.

 

[pen]

Well, nothing is ever as clear cut as I'd like it to be.

Here's the new 3-19 I received from starbrickstoves.com.

It does read lower than my 3-39 probe, but only 50 degrees less, not 200 less like BeGreen's did.

So, now we have to guess whether or not components changed again even within the 3-19's? Or even w/ light/moderate use has BeGreen's lowered in temp a bit over time? Or is there this much variability/uncertainty in any probe that you can buy?

What I find interesting is that all of the thermometers read identically below 450 degrees.

Condar claims 4000 hours use is it for these things. That's basically 1 season! Have our thermometers changed over time and we just not notice it?

We need someone w/ double wall pipe to do testing like I have here to compare.

Sorry that these pics aren't as high a quality as the others. This is my wife's camera. It's 5 years newer and a few megapixles more worthless.

pen

pen