A confused newbie maiden

[Elle]

Well, sort of confused. I've been lurking here and other places trying to learn what I can about wood stoves, but even after searches I still have a few questions-or would like your thoughts on some things.

I have a budget of about 6K for the stove and the chimney. I can increase that if necessary as I want to make sure I do things right the first time rather than skimp a bit-but I would like to be as frugal as I can. I want to cook on the stove a little, but not for elaborate meals or anything like that. Just boil some water, heat some soup and maybe a stew here and there. I have two floors to heat. Probably about 2000 square feet total. I am renovating to open up the entire downstairs-to better heat and I like open space.I think I have narrowed the cast stoves to napoleon, lopi and pacific-they seem to be the preferred from what I have been able to read. Not sure about soap stone though. Placement of the stove isn't a problem as I am renovating I can put it anywhere you suggest.

1. soapstone or cast iron? Of course the soap stone is pretty, but as long as I can watch the flames dance and warm up some coco, I'll be happy. From what I've read, soap is more radiant, but is it enough to warm a space?

2. chimney-masonry or steel. I'm leaning towards steel, I guess the triple insulated? The masonry seem to be less efficient. The stove will be on the first floor so I'm figuring about 30 ft from stove to 3-4 ft over the roof-give or take a bit.

3. Can a chimney be put inside the house? Would a masonry chimney be able to go inside? Just seems like it might be a heating option...I dunno-and I read that somewhere

4. to heat the upstairs-I was thinking of a few vents in the ceiling, but I wonder if 1 vent around the stove might be better as to push the air in one direction rather than a few vents and having air get stuck. Will it get stuck? The upstairs will not be open and has a few bedrooms, and such. As it works out, the stove will be under the hallway...so maybe just one vent in that?

I think that is it for now. I live in North East PA. This will hopefully be a primary heat source once I get good at it.

Thanks

Elle

 

[Woody Stover]

Welcome, Elle!
I'll just toss out a few brief comments, but I'm certain others will give you more detailed answers. I have to sharpen some saw chain...big day tomorrow.

I think I have narrowed the cast stoves to napoleon, lopi and pacific-they seem to be the preferred from what I have been able to read. Not sure about soap stone though.
Those stove are plate-steel construction, so that's different from cast, generally less expensive. Soapstone can be preferred depending on how you heat. If you are starting a lot of fires, soapstone will take a bit longer to start heating the space but not too much longer. I have a fire burning all the time during cold weather, so that's not an issue for me.

1.Of course the soap stone is pretty, but as long as I can watch the flames dance and warm up some coco, I'll be happy. From what I've read, soap is more radiant, but is it enough to warm a space?
A big soapstone will heat that space. They radiate nicely and if you have an open space the radiant heat won't be blocked. You haven't mentioned catalytic combustor vs. non-cat. You'll generally have more flame to watch with a non-cat, although a cat can be burned with some flame in the box.
If you want a more convective stove (one that heats the air more as opposed to one that is mainly a radiant heater) then a plate-steel stove may be a better option, although Pacific Energy's Alderleas are plate-steel firebox with a cast shell and heat convectively.

2. chimney-masonry or steel. I'm leaning towards steel, I guess the triple insulated? The masonry seem to be less efficient. The stove will be on the first floor so I'm figuring about 30 ft from stove to 3-4 ft over the roof-give or take a bit.
You'll probably run metal chimney unless you already have a masonry fireplace, like I do. I still run a stainless liner up inside the masonry flue.

4. to heat the upstairs-I was thinking of a few vents in the ceiling
I believe the heat should rise upstairs adequately, but I have a one-story home...others here have more experience in this area than I do...

Whatever you end up with, I have the feeling you are going to enjoy it immensely.

 

[Woody Stover]

Oh, and the cat stoves are renowned for long burn times so if adequately-sized they can burn long and low and still keep the house warm if you're away for many hours. Our Fireview will easy go twelve hours...

 

[tfdchief]

Welcome to the forum Elle. I think you actually know more than you let on from your questions. So much depends on your needs, your taste and preference for looks of the stove, the construction and layout of your house. Keep posting details and preferences. There is a stove for all needs. This place will help you all you want.

 

[Dix]

Evening Elle, welcome to the forums !! Always nice to see another "Sistah" around !!

A lot depends on your layout. A floor plan would help here (I'm the floor plan gal )

How's your wood supply? Get it in ASAP, drier is better !!

 

[PapaDave]

Welcome to the Hearth Elle.
Dixie beat me to it, but first thing to do is start (if you haven't already) getting your wood c/s/s.
I like the looks of the Alderlea T6 and Jotul Oslo. I've thought of a cat stove just because of my house size. BK Princess (hate....uh, seriously dislike that name) is another thought. Plate steel.
Wow, so many choices.
Pics of your space may help those here w/more experience than myself, help you to choose.

 

[fossil]

If you get to place the stove pretty much anywhere you like (so many don't have that delicious luxury), then pick a place where the heat has the best chance of getting to wherever you want the heat to be, where you can enjoy watching the wonderful dancing flames through the window of your stove, and you can go up with a straight run of stovepipe (connector pipe) and chimney pipe (all of this is metal, made specifically for solid fuel-burning appliances) from the appliance flue collar to daylight. Forget about doing anything with masonry, unless you just have money to burn. Be very careful about cutting holes in your house to encourage heat to rise...there are fire/mechanical code and safety issues involved. Carefully considered use of small portable fans (experiments are useful here) may be a preferred solution to the moving heat around & up problem (one we all face to one degree or another). Heating your upstairs may be a bit of a challenge, no matter how you try it, but it can be done. A ceiling fan in the room where the stove resides is always a good idea, IMO. Welcome to the forums! Rick

 

[begreen]

Well, sort of confused. I've been lurking here and other places trying to learn what I can about wood stoves, but even after searches I still have a few questions-or would like your thoughts on some things.

I have a budget of about 6K for the stove and the chimney. I can increase that if necessary as I want to make sure I do things right the first time rather than skimp a bit-but I would like to be as frugal as I can. I want to cook on the stove a little, but not for elaborate meals or anything like that. Just boil some water, heat some soup and maybe a stew here and there. I have two floors to heat. Probably about 2000 square feet total. I am renovating to open up the entire downstairs-to better heat and I like open space.I think I have narrowed the cast stoves to napoleon, lopi and pacific-they seem to be the preferred from what I have been able to read. Not sure about soap stone though. Placement of the stove isn't a problem as I am renovating I can put it anywhere you suggest.

1. soapstone or cast iron? Of course the soap stone is pretty, but as long as I can watch the flames dance and warm up some coco, I'll be happy. From what I've read, soap is more radiant, but is it enough to warm a space?

The cast iron stoves you are looking at are actually steel stove with a cast iron jacket. This is a good thing and works very well to provide the benefits of more mass, with the visual appeal of cast iron.

2. chimney-masonry or steel. I'm leaning towards steel, I guess the triple insulated? The masonry seem to be less efficient. The stove will be on the first floor so I'm figuring about 30 ft from stove to 3-4 ft over the roof-give or take a bit.

Go for a stainless chimney straight up in the interior of the house. It will provide the best performance and as long as good dry wood is being burned correctly much lower creosote accumulation.

3. Can a chimney be put inside the house? Would a masonry chimney be able to go inside? Just seems like it might be a heating option...I dunno-and I read that somewhere

Certainly, that's the best way to go.

4. to heat the upstairs-I was thinking of a few vents in the ceiling, but I wonder if 1 vent around the stove might be better as to push the air in one direction rather than a few vents and having air get stuck. Will it get stuck? The upstairs will not be open and has a few bedrooms, and such. As it works out, the stove will be under the hallway...so maybe just one vent in that?

Hopefully there will be no need at all for this. It could actually turn out to be the opposite. You don't want all the heat to just rise up the hallway. I had to add a false beam to throttle the convection of heat up our stairway. If possible, consider locating the stove further away from the hallway.

I think that is it for now. I live in North East PA. This will hopefully be a primary heat source once I get good at it.

Thanks

Elle

You are starting off well on this project. Post a sketch of the floorplan if you would like help with placement of the stove. And welcome to Hearth.com!

 

[raybonz]

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your stove when you get it! Others have given solid advice and here are my thoughts. My 1st consideration is do I want convective or radiant heat? I have been a fan of convection heat for 25 years for a few reasons. First is you can sit 5 feet away and not feel like you are on fire. Second they do a great job of moving the heat throughout my home especially if you opt for the blower. Radiant heat can be overbearing in the same room as the stove and many have stated that soapstone is better in this regard. I have also owned a cat and now a non-cat stove. I feel they are both very effective and after a season of non-cat I think I prefer them mainly because the fire view is awesome to see. Woodstock makes one stove that is both cat and non-cat and that provides an awesome fire show. I like the look of soapstone but they are radiant and I simply can't take the heat of a radiant stove but that is my choice..Keep us posted!

Ray

 

[weatherguy]

I agree with Ray, I was going to suggest the Woodstock Progress, with your size house and wanting pretty flames you can get that with the Progress, plus you can get the long burn times with the cat.

 

[Woody Stover]

Radiant heat can be overbearing in the same room as the stove and many have stated that soapstone is better in this regard...I like the look of soapstone but they are radiant and I simply can't take the heat of a radiant stove

I sit about 6' from the Fireview and if the recliner is back, my tootsies are about 3' away. Of course, I didn't have the stove cranking with the mild Winter we had. I suppose I could roast myself out but I kinda doubt it; One of my most-used phrases is "Ahhhh, blessed heat!"

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Well, sort of confused. I've been lurking here and other places trying to learn what I can about wood stoves, but even after searches I still have a few questions-or would like your thoughts on some things...

I have a budget of about 6K for the stove and the chimney. I can increase that if necessary as I want to make sure I do things right the first time rather than skimp a bit-but I would like to be as frugal as I can. I want to cook on the stove a little, but not for elaborate meals or anything like that. Just boil some water, heat some soup and maybe a stew here and there. I have two floors to heat. Probably about 2000 square feet total. I am renovating to open up the entire downstairs-to better heat and I like open space.I think I have narrowed the cast stoves to napoleon, lopi and pacific-they seem to be the preferred from what I have been able to read. Not sure about soap stone though. Placement of the stove isn't a problem as I am renovating I can put it anywhere you suggest.

Welcome to the forum Elle.

It appears you have done some homework already. Keep doing it!


But....you are thinking about heating your home next winter. Realize that you should have all of next winter's wood on hand already. It should be split and stacked out in the wind so it can dry. Do yourself a big favor and not make the most common mistake of people who get into wood burning. That mistake is to install the stove and when you need heat, then call to get some fuel. The seller will tell you it is "seasoned" and ready to burn. Do not believe this! If you cut your own wood, again, it should be cut and stacked now!

Also realize that different woods take different times to dry properly. I highly suggest in your first couple years of burning that you do not burn oak. Oak is indeed one of the very best, but it give up its moisture very reluctantly. In our home, we do not burn oak until it has been split and stacked in the wind for 3 years. Then it is ready to burn. The big benefits to you will be no problems getting the wood to burn, you'll get more heat from the wood and you won't have the fear of chimney fires.

We wish you the best of luck.

 

[Ashful]

My 1st consideration is do I want convective or radiant heat? I have been a fan of convection heat for 25 years for a few reasons. First is you can sit 5 feet away and not feel like you are on fire. Second they do a great job of moving the heat throughout my home especially if you opt for the blower.

Do check out the recent thread, "blowers and dust". I had started this after speaking with some co-workers about the dust their blowers seem to distribute. Bottom line, a wood stove generates dust, not so much during the burn, but when you open the doors to load or clean it. A weekly clean-up of the hearth will keep any dust moved into the house at a minimum, but a blower can work against you here, nicely distributing any spilled ash or dust which would otherwise stay local to the stove.

Realize that you should have all of next winter's wood on hand already.

Don't let this intimidate you from getting started. There are a lot of local companies that will deliver wood to you in a few days notice. If you don't already have next years supply on hand, call them this week and get it delivered. While it's good to have it stacked two years out, the majority of that drying happens in the first 6 months. Get it stacked this month, and while not ideal, it will be useable in the fall.

 

[raybonz]

Do check out the recent thread, "blowers and dust". I had started this after speaking with some co-workers about the dust their blowers seem to distribute. Bottom line, a wood stove generates dust, not so much during the burn, but when you open the doors to load or clean it. A weekly clean-up of the hearth will keep any dust moved into the house at a minimum, but a blower can work against you here, nicely distributing any spilled ash or dust which would otherwise stay local to the stove.



Don't let this intimidate you from getting started. There are a lot of local companies that will deliver wood to you in a few days notice. If you don't already have next years supply on hand, call them this week and get it delivered. While it's good to have it stacked two years out, the majority of that drying happens in the first 6 months. Get it stacked this month, and while not ideal, it will be useable in the fall.

You're gonna get dust no matter what in the winter even without a wood stove.. For that matter you get the rest of the year too.. I generally am careful when cleaning out ashes and if you're that concerned then shut off the blower. This would never prevent me from using a blower and this stove is much more efficient with the blower on as are many other stoves. The only time I don't use the blower is during early fall and late spring burning when I don't want to overheat my home..

As for 6 month seasoning, good luck with that! This will not work with any Oak species and there are other woods that will not season in 6 months with softwoods, silver maple, cherry and ash that do fairly well providing the splits aren't too large. When Backwoods talks about seasoning I consider him an expert on this subject with total credibility on most wood subjects as well..

Ray

 

[begreen]

Have to agree that the blower is not the cause or not a major influence on the dust. Most ash falls low on the ash lip while most blowers blow across the top of the stove. If you are getting an issue when opening the stove door it could be poor draft. The solution then is to either improve draft of at least turn off the fan before opening the door.

True you can get wood delivered, many do. But the odds of getting dry wood delivered can be marginal at best. We've burned both 6 month dried wood and 12+ month dried wood from the same doug fir. Our splits are large and they take a while to dry to the core. It is very rare to get that with purchased wood. If the splits are hardwood, I like to let it go 2 years before burning. The difference is really noticeable.

 

[tfdchief]

Dust.....hmmmm, that is what my wife has said for 40 years. I don't clean ashes very often and am very careful. The wood is a source of dust of course, but I think the dry air in the house in the winter is the big contributing factor. When it is dry, it is a lot easier to create dust from whatever......which is what I always say to her...."whatever".....

 

[xman23]

Welcome to the forum Ellie from a fellow NEPA wood burner
Sounds like you have a good understanding of the issues. 6 K sounds good, but you should shop around at the local stove stores, for prices and advice and the brand of stoves they handel. They have the stove drawing and will help you lay it out. One issue I had was getting the installation done just before or durning the burning season. They are all booked up. Get it installed in the srmmer. If you are real handy and do your homework, you or your contractor could do the installation.

 

[Woody Stover]

Oak is indeed one of the very best, but it give up its moisture very reluctantly.

I've often wondered, why is it so reluctant to give up the moisture? Apparently these split don't realize that they are no longer part of a tree, that they are dead, and that they have no further use for moisture. C'mon, give it up already!

 

[firebroad]

Welcome, Elle!
As a relative new kid, I will share my thoughts. Though I have an insert rather than a freestanding stove, and I only have one floor to heat, I can tell you than burning wood rather than oil is the best thing I have ever done. Yes, it is messy. You will get ashes and soot on everything, but if you are a fastidious housekeeper, it will not be noticeable. You will bring "crumbs" and wood bits into the house, and have to sweep A LOT. You will worry about chimney fires and creosote build up, but if you keep an eye on your chimney and sweep it regularly, it will not be a hazard. You will wake up chilly, but will soon learn how to re-establish a comforting fire quickly. You will be dead tired after stacking two or more cords of wood, which could take the whole day if you are older and live alone, but will be satisfied with the results.
Do not buy a stove that you are not delighted with. Get the best one you can afford, and don't settle for what someone else tells you you need if you are not convinced of his/her sincerity. I had people telling me to buy pellet stoves, cat stoves, boilers, oversized, freestanding, etc. In the end, I did my homework and held out for what I wanted, and have not regretted it. Listen to these old fa*ts on this board, they may not always agree about the details, but they seem to know a lot about what is important.
Good luck!

 

[Woody Stover]

Yes, it is messy. You will get ashes and soot on everything, but if you are a fastidious housekeeper, it will not be noticeable. You will bring "crumbs" and wood bits into the house, and have to sweep A LOT.

I don't think you're going to scare her away...she seems determined.
Actually, not many ashes escape if you are careful when you remove them...virtually none with careful removal of an ash pan. I carry wood into the house in a canvas log tote and the only crumbs are in the area near the stove where I keep the wood. Those are easily swept into an ash shovel with a wisk broom.

You will worry about chimney fires and creosote build up, but if you keep an eye on your chimney and sweep it regularly, it will not be a hazard.

Dry wood should alleviate most concerns.

Listen to these old fa*ts on this board

Except me. I'm full of BS, as will soon become clear.

 

[Ashful]

As for 6 month seasoning, good luck with that! This will not work with any Oak species and there are other woods that will not season in 6 months with softwoods, silver maple, cherry and ash that do fairly well providing the splits aren't too large.

I guess it depends on where you're drying it. A co-worker stuffed a bunch of freshly cut red oak in the second floor of his barn. They pulled out a handfull of fresh splits and weighed them at 18 - 20 lb. each. Two WEEKS later they weighed them again at 10 - 12 lb. Two weeks after that, still at 10 - 12 lb. Continued checking them for several months until they burned them, and the weight never dropped any further than 10 lb.

I'm not arguing with anything anyone else has said, and stacked outdoors oak may indeed take longer than other species, but I'd love to hear an explanation on those weights from someone claiming you can't dry oak in under 2 years. I can say the guy who collected this data is smart enough to use a scale and a calendar, and these are hard numbers, not a guess or opinion.

Has anyone ever actually plotted weights or moisture meter readings vs. time of air dried oak in a shed or stacked and covered outdoors?

 

[Elle]

Thanks for all the replies. I will get to them in the next few hours. I'm a grad student so I'm pulling my hair out with homework since Friday, but I'll be finished soon. Thanks~!

 

[Elle]

Oh, and the cat stoves are renowned for long burn times so if adequately-sized they can burn long and low and still keep the house warm if you're away for many hours. Our Fireview will easy go twelve hours...

See, I "know" the difference between a catalytic stove and non cat, at least in definition, but I don't really know what it means relative to how it is used. I know what it is, but I can't grab the concept of how practical either would be, or not be. From what I've read...with a cat you run the risk of ruining the catalyst if you burn too hot for too long. Maybe I better read all the posts before I answer, lol.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I guess it depends on where you're drying it. A co-worker stuffed a bunch of freshly cut red oak in the second floor of his barn. They pulled out a handfull of fresh splits and weighed them at 18 - 20 lb. each. Two WEEKS later they weighed them again at 10 - 12 lb. Two weeks after that, still at 10 - 12 lb. Continued checking them for several months until they burned them, and the weight never dropped any further than 10 lb.

I'm not arguing with anything anyone else has said, and stacked outdoors oak may indeed take longer than other species, but I'd love to hear an explanation on those weights from someone claiming you can't dry oak in under 2 years. I can say the guy who collected this data is smart enough to use a scale and a calendar, and these are hard numbers, not a guess or opinion.

Has anyone ever actually plotted weights or moisture meter readings vs. time of air dried oak in a shed or stacked and covered outdoors?

Sorry but that is very difficult to believe a piece of red oak could drop from 18-20 lb to 10-12 lb in two weeks, especially sitting in a hay mow. This would mean they dropped 8 pounds of moisture which would be 40% + of it's starting weight. He might be smart enough to use a scale and a calendar but methinks he has something else going for him to.... We often time hear some wild stories but this ranks near the top.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

See, I "know" the difference between a catalytic stove and non cat, at least in definition, but I don't really know what it means relative to how it is used. I know what it is, but I can't grab the concept of how practical either would be, or not be. From what I've read...with a cat you run the risk of ruining the catalyst if you burn too hot for too long. Maybe I better read all the posts before I answer, lol.

Lori, your reply shows you, like most of us, have more to learn. What you stated about the cat stove is very untrue. Generally speaking, you can burn a lower fire but still get the stove temperature up and that is because the cat basically burns smoke. This is why at times we can burn a very low smoldering fire and still get a nice clean burn. Without the cat, then the fire really needs to burn hot to keep the clean burn but the secondaries really help. Then we have the hybrid stove, like the Woodstock Progress which has both the secondary burn and the cat burn. Super technology.

Just to let you know what can happen though, the Fireview is our first EPA stove. It is a cat stove too. In our previous stove, we burned an average of about 6 full cord of wood per winter. When we installed the Fireview, we found our average to be 3 cord per year. With our old stove, we cleaned our chimney usually at least 4 times per year and many time more. Since getting the clean burning Fireview cat stove, we have cleaned our chimney one time. We have burned this stove for 5 full winters now and it is our only source of heat so it gets used a lot. So we have clean burning, less fuel needed and we stay a lot warmer than we used to. In fact, we used to close off part of the house every winter. That just does not happen at all now. This so-called winter we just came through, we burned somewhere around 2 cord of wood.

Some say you get a better fire for viewing with the secondary stoves. That all depends upon how you run the stove. If we want to watch the flame, we just open the draft a very little bit and there is the flame. Otherwise we dial the draft down and by doing so, sometimes the fire does appear to go out. Not so though as the temperature gauge will prove. Many times we get a stove top temperature of 700 degrees and there will be no flame in the firebox. That is true economy!