Advanced Catalyst Systems, a better catalyst?

[thefaf]

Hi everybody,

I have a Dutchwest 2461 "large" catalytic stove and it's great. I'm still trying to find the best catalytic combuster and wonder if anyone has experience with the "Advanced Woodstove Catalyst Replacement" touted on advancedcatalyst.com. My experience has been that the Condar, which is the original tends to crumble after 2-3 years of heavy use, pretty much 24/7 for 4 months or more here in NH. I am now using the one from Clear Skies Unlimited, stovecombustors.com. It's more durable but tends to clog and much more secondary air is required than the Condar. The "Advanced" sounds great and the price is reasonable, but I haven't been able to find any impartial feedback from users. As always, thanks for your input.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

ive not seen them(advanced cat you referred to) ,and i didnt like the "clearskies" cats in my stove. they lit off at lower temps but didnt achieve as high a temp as i was used to. the best prformance i got overall was with "applied ceramics" out of atlanta. my origional cat lasted over a decade in a stand alone heating application, and was still functional when i replaced it for research purposes with a clearskies, ended up putting a new applied back in , just was not impressd with overall performance of the clear skies cat , but it may be because the applied spoiled me.

 

[jpl1nh]

I just switched to a Woodstock cat stove so my experience is limited. However Elk's recommendation is http://www.stovecombustors.com/whybuyfromus.html PS, where in NH are you?

 

[BrotherBart]

ive not seen them(advanced cat you referred to) ,and i didnt like the "clearskies" cats in my stove. they lit off at lower temps but didnt achieve as high a temp as i was used to. the best prformance i got overall was with "applied ceramics" out of atlanta. my origional cat lasted over a decade in a stand alone heating application, and was still functional when i replaced it for research purposes with a clearskies, ended up putting a new applied back in , just was not impressd with overall performance of the clear skies cat , but it may be because the applied spoiled me.

I like the looks of the stove clearskies has on their home page though.

Mike won't say it but the clearskies are the ones sold by stovecombusters.com

 

[stoveguy2esw]

actually, i am at fault , i did not say that they were in my earlier post , but meant to( dang BB i need to get you to edit all my work lol) the picture BB posted is a 24-icd unit we produced in the late 90'2 through about 2002-03, when we went into the "non cat" woodstove direction. anyway , yes the stovecombustors.com cats are indeed clearskies cats , and you read my opinion on them in my particular stove applied was light years ahead of them in durability , performance and yes service. i hate getting calls back after i direct a customer to a company and they dont answer their phones.

 

[Todd]

Is this the new "super cat" Elk was talking about? He said VC was coming out with one in their Intrepid II. Suppose to light off at a lower temp and withstand thermal shock. Might be the future of cat stoves?

 

[thefaf]

PS, where in NH are you?[/quote]

I''m in New London.

 

[jpl1nh]

PS, where in NH are you?

beautiful area!

I''m in New London.[/quote]

 

[elkimmeg]

I asked VC about Stove combuster cats/ clearskies they admitted to them being better than the company that supplied oem cats. The next question I asked then why not use them Answer was price the OEm producer had a better price than Clearskies

Here is the difference in performance the normal OEM combustor needs to be 500 to 550 degrees to light off Clearskyies combustor will light off at 380 degrees

Thats a 25% improvement When most smoke occurs is at kindling and reloading if a cat will light of r earlier then the smoke is burned off and converted to heat .

The difference in a non cat stove is the fire box temps have to be 1000 degrees to burn of smoke particulate and if he temp falls in that fire box the secondary burn does not continue
Many stoves it becomes an intermittent on off cycle when the firebox temps teeter around 100 degrees

VC told Me about a staliless steel combustior superior in the resistance to thermo shock and lower light off temps near 300 degrees I think Blaze King is using them in their stoves.

Rumor was VC was going to use one in the intrepid I can't confirm that rumor,

When one thinks about it the only way one can improve on their cat stove performance is purchasing an after market cat

Where is KeithO he is the Cat combustor expert.. I believe he is working on a cat for small engine diesel engines. I think he told me there are only two manufactures Corning and I forget the other name a Japaneses company

 

[Todd]

Is this the new stainless super cat you talk about Elk? They say it's metalic, thinner, and eliminates thermo shock. These are different than the clear sky cats.

www.advancedcatalyst.com

 

[Gooserider]

Well they list the VC Encore cat at $189, which is a bit more than the Clearskies unit, but not grossly so. The warranty seems OK, though it says the lightoff temp is 500* The other thing they say is that they need 4-6 weeks to process a warranty return - and don't say anything about doing cross-ships. That would make the warranty pretty low value in my book, as it sounds like an exchange would take a good bit of the heating season.

One product that I have no use for, but seems like a neat concept is they make a cat system for direct vent gas units - cat coated "embers" that you are supposed to sprinkle on top of the existing fake embers - supposedly makes a more realistic looking fire w/ even less pollution. Don't know if it works or not, but the idea is interesting.

Gooserider

 

[Todd]

Well they list the VC Encore cat at $189, which is a bit more than the Clearskies unit, but not grossly so. The warranty seems OK, though it says the lightoff temp is 500* The other thing they say is that they need 4-6 weeks to process a warranty return - and don't say anything about doing cross-ships. That would make the warranty pretty low value in my book, as it sounds like an exchange would take a good bit of the heating season.

One product that I have no use for, but seems like a neat concept is they make a cat system for direct vent gas units - cat coated "embers" that you are supposed to sprinkle on top of the existing fake embers - supposedly makes a more realistic looking fire w/ even less pollution. Don't know if it works or not, but the idea is interesting.

Gooserider

Where did you see that 500* figure? I like the fact that it is thermo shock resistant. That is a big problem with ceramic honey comb cats and wet wood. If you make these catalysts more idiot proof and more efficient I think you will see more cat stoves in the future. I for one think that is a good thing.

 

[thefaf]

I found the clear skies cat, though it supposedly lit at a lower temp than the OEM Condar, (Corning) unit, did not get very hot. After only about a month of use, it got to the point it wouldn't get over 800 deg F, even with the hottest fires. Then shortly after the catalyst would clog so badly, I'd get back puffing whenever I engaged it. Then I had to disassemble the stove and boil the catalyst in vinegar solution to remove the deposits. I've tried different settings for air to the catalyst to no avail. This scenario has happened three times in two years with the clearskies. The advanced catalyst is called "Fire Cat" it has a metallic structure. If it doesn't crumble or clog, I'm in. I prefer the cat stoves too, with just a bit more work you get lots better efficiency and cleaner exhaust.

 

[Gooserider]

Well they list the VC Encore cat at $189, which is a bit more than the Clearskies unit, but not grossly so. The warranty seems OK, though it says the lightoff temp is 500* The other thing they say is that they need 4-6 weeks to process a warranty return - and don't say anything about doing cross-ships. That would make the warranty pretty low value in my book, as it sounds like an exchange would take a good bit of the heating season.

One product that I have no use for, but seems like a neat concept is they make a cat system for direct vent gas units - cat coated "embers" that you are supposed to sprinkle on top of the existing fake embers - supposedly makes a more realistic looking fire w/ even less pollution. Don't know if it works or not, but the idea is interesting.

Gooserider

Where did you see that 500* figure? I like the fact that it is thermo shock resistant. That is a big problem with ceramic honey comb cats and wet wood. If you make these catalysts more idiot proof and more efficient I think you will see more cat stoves in the future. I for one think that is a good thing.

It was in the warranty window where they also has a section on "How it works" The website is rather poorly set up - they list the different cat models, and each model when clicked on gives a list of the stoves that it fits, but there is no obvious reference chart that would allow you to look up what model goes into a given stove. Instead you have to look at each model's list of apps until you find the right one. :long:

However the warranty page was worth reading, it has a lot more info in it than the standard "terms and conditions" that you see on most warranties. They claim somewhat greater resistance to thermal shock and overfire damage than a ceramic, but do NOT claim to be immune, and especially say that flame impingement is damaging - apparently high temps alter the crystal structure of the catalyst, and reduce it's effectiveness - thus while the substrate may not fall apart, the cat still dies...

Gooserider

 

[kellog]

I have to agree with stoveguy2. I have had good luck with applied ceramics. They are not the least expensive but they work. I have been burning cat stoves since 1982 and have used applied ceramics exclusively after OEM cat so I have no real reference to other manufacturers. However they last a long time (6-7years) and you can almost read a book from the glow (my stove has a little silver dollar sized window to view the cat). They burn a very bright red/orange (temps well over 1000 deg). I have never had one disintegrate or clog. Only light fly-ash that can be vacuumed away. Have had cracks but they work fine with them. My two cents if it helps.