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Advice please.

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by TK-421, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Random thoughts . . .

    Oh if only Dennis was here to defend catalytic combustor stoves . . . ;) I know if he was here he would say something about not ruling out stoves with cats and then would go on to espouse Woodstock's stove line . . . (and to be honest, while I still love my Jotul I am quite excited to check out the new stove this weekend.)

    Hehheh . . . I really enjoyed the debate on steel vs. cast iron and overfiring. Rebuilding vs. welding . . . personally it's a whole lot simpler to just avoid over-firing your stove regardless of what type it is . . . avoid this and I think you should get many years of reliable service out of any type of stove. And yes, there may be an occasional over-fire, but I suspect that it is with regular over-firing that you will have problems.

    I am biased towards one of the three stoves the OP mentioned . . . the Jotul F-600. I do not honestly know enough about the other stoves to say anything pro- or con- about them and I will readily admit that my experience has been with the Firelight's younger brother the Oslo -- although this seems to mostly be just a smaller version of the same stove. One thing I have seen with just about every Jotul stove made is that the name is synonymous with reliability. If you take the time to check out the stove ratings section here at hearth.com I suspect you will find very few issues with the F-600 . . . or most any other stove in the Jotul line up. These are tough stoves . . . they look good . . . but they heat even better than they look.

    Side loading . . . a very nice feature. It is rare that I open my front door other than to clean it once every week or so . . . and typically it is just to remove the fly ash off the glass which I can do with a wet cloth or damp newspaper. As mentioned, if a person is getting a black glass they may have issues with unseasoned wood, draft, unseasoned wood, they are closing the air control too quickly or too much, unseasoned wood or in my own case once in a while a split will roll up against the glass and cause that area to blacken up . . . a situation fixed on my next burn. Incidentally, to burn off the gunk you would not "crank it wide open" as this sounds as though you would leave the air control open all the way resulting in lots of active flames, but rather once the temp is up you start closing down the air to achieve a secondary burn at which time the stove really cranks and the magic happens.

    Good luck with whatever stove you opt to buy . . . and welcome to the forum.

    Oh yeah . . . one more thing . . . these are not the stoves you're looking for. ;)

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  2. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    :)

    Thanks for the advice. It is always welcomed. We spent some time comparing last night and I even brought my tape measure with me to the dealer. Dont forget that for the past few weeks I've been trying to pick up an old side load defiant. Partly why I gravitated towards the f600. The f600 mirrors closely to the old defiant. I've read many reviews and tend to agree with you that quality down to customer service always come with high marks.

    What I did was narrow down my search to what met our needs and wants and keeping a stove for each school. Steel box and cast iron.

    I've read a lot about the cats both good and bad. I'm sure that under the right circumstances a cat is a better machine. I just think that in our situation we would end up being one of the frustrated owners and hate the thing. I have no qualms about a non cat. Personal preference IMO.

    Our Long term goal is to build a small addition, 10'x10' and get our old furnace setup back. Either another Yukon big jack or a fire king furnace. Then pipe it into our current hvac ductwork for even heating throughout our home. Plus no dirty ashes or wood in the living room or trekking outside in the cold to get another load. This goal is several years out if ever so in the meantime we're going with plan B.
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Get a PE Alderlea T6 and you will have a big steel stove with a classic cast iron dress jacket, plus a square firebox that you can load anyway you please.
  4. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    I looked at that one but it only boasts 18-20" logs.
  5. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    I wouldn't let length(as long as it's reasonable) make the decision for you, if you have to re-cut for this season you can make a cutting jig. The shorter the wood the faster it will season and these EPA stoves love well seasoned wood. :)
  6. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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  7. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    If he did it right, that's still a nice stove. Though I always wonder what the real reason is when I come across a stove that was painted.
  8. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    ^^^ exactly. Which is why I'm sceptical.
  9. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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  10. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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  11. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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  12. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    Ha ha. Thanks man. Got the missing pics, saw one, the other one is a new listing. Thanks.

    I check both CL and eBay daily.
  13. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I figured you might have seen some or all of them. I figured it couldn't hurt as I've gotten pretty good at searching for used stoves. Here's a quick list of old Defiants that might be decent.

    This one claims "this stove was installed in a house 20 years ago and NEVER used by its owners". If true, and that's a big if, then the surface rust should clean up nicely.
    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/for/2615841421.html

    This one looks promising
    http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/hsh/2605602329.html

    This one looks like it was just touched up with some Rutland polish. Could be good, or it could be smoke and mirrors.
    http://albany.craigslist.org/hsh/2633201006.html
  14. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    Ha ha. Thanks again. Pa is new. Just emailed him for better pics.

    NJ has a crack on the top.

    The other had some issue I cant recall.
  15. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    No problem.

    The ones asking for $1000-$1500 for the old Defiants are insane. I didn't bother posting those.
  16. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    Agreed. I asked one to come down. We'll see.

    Still think we'll be better in the long run going with the f600.
  17. My Oslo heats my home

    My Oslo heats my home Minister of Fire

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    TK, just checking in. I thought you may have purchased something by now?? I do see you have leaned towards a F600. :)
  18. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    Yeah the Jotul is calling. I like the larger firebox. My wife likes the look. I still lean towards the Lopi steel box. It just seems more of a workhorse. Less seems, one door=less gaskets. I like things that don't require a lot of maintenance. I've already got too much on my plate with the house renovation. I do all the work myself. Can't afford it otherwise.

    I think we'll be happy with either one. Or something else if I see something else I like. Most likely pick up the Jotul next wednesday unless I'm convinced something would suit us better.
  19. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    If the F-600 is anything like the F-500 I suspect you will truly not have much maintenance . . . three years in and the gaskets are doing fine . . . all I pretty much do to my stove is clean it . . . once in a while add some graphite powder to the air control in the Oslo. I suspect whichever stove you go with honestly will make you happy.
  20. lopiliberty

    lopiliberty Minister of Fire

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    I would go with the lopi liberty just because I have this stove and I can honestly say it is a heating machine. As far as 24 in wood, the liberty will accommodate that but I know from experience that it is a little hard loading a 24 in split into the stove. The door is not actually 24 in. i believe it is 20 or 21in. so you have to angle the wood to get it in the door not to fun with a hot stove. You would also have to worry about it falling against the door. If you did really want the liberty, i would suggest cutting the 24in split in half and loading the stove north/south. This will allow you to load more wood into the stove and not have to worry about the wood falling against the door and it seems to burn better loaded north/south.
  21. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    I agree. I. Still torn between the two. Wish I could view an Englander. They seem similar in most aspects to the liberty.

    Either way I'll be getting one soon. And I'm sure which ever one I get will meet our needs.

    You all have been great brainstorming your own preferences and experiences. Thank you.
  22. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    That's the problem with Englander stoves, they have an awful website that does not show their product in a good light. And when you go to Home Depot/Lowes/whatever the stoves are usually half put together, missing firebrick, maybe missing the door and just generally looking like crap. It was only through this forum that I was able to see how they looked in a home setting and was able to learn about the stoves quality.
  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Both are made in the US, but the Englander 30NC is quite different from the Lopi Liberty. Most notably it has a deeper firebox that allows easy north/south loading. The Liberty has a flue bypass for smokeless starts and refills, heavier metal and solid firebrick on top of the manifold. The Englander has an unvented top step that is the hotter. The Liberty has a convection top step that is cooler and acts as the fan duct.

    Both are good heating machines, just different in many details. Also notable is the difference in price. You can get two 30NCs for the price of one Liberty. As Patrick Henry once said, give me Liberty or give me spare change. :lol:
  24. TK-421

    TK-421 Member

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    We finally settled on the Jotul f600. This stove just seemed to meet all of our needs.

    The dealer agreed to $2195 to we are happy we got the best price we could. I now ordering new 6" pipe and getting ready to redo the chimney setup.

    How much draft do you think I'll lose by putting in a "T" coming right off the stove? I only have a 15' chimney so I'm not working with much anyway. Will the 90 kill the draft much?

    I plan to use a cap on the bottom and make that my clean out. My wife wants a chase for the pipe since its a cathedral living room and we'll have 8-9' of pipe exposed. If I put in a T I can make the chase come straight down and not worry about clearances as much since it won't be an alcove installation.

    I'd rather have it go straight up of the stove but the T seems to work better with the chase setup.
  25. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    That is a damn good deal on the F600.

    Not sure about the draft loss question. I have a T on my rear venting encore and it has a hell of a draft. But I have 20+ feet of liner/chimney I'm working with. The 15 feet will be more of a potential issue than the T will be, it seems.

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