Alaska officials are checking EVERY stove's certification paperwork?!

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.

John Ackerly

Burning Hunk
Haven't seen this discussed here and its worth folks knowing about, if you don't already. Alaska officials are actually going through the certification paperwork of every single wood and pellet stove and finding a bunch of deficiencies and those stoves won't be allowed to sell in Fairbanks. They also missed tons of stuff, so it forced manufacturers to spend a lot of time showing Alaska that their lab reports actually had the data in it. But maybe biggest thing is that they are using particulates from the first hour of the test burn as a better test of a stove's capability to burn cleanly - not the average of the entire burn cycle. So, if a stove is over 6 grams an hour during the first hour of any of the test burns, they can't sell in Fairbanks. This wouldn't matter too much if it stays confined to Fairbanks, but incentive and change-out programs elsewhere may adopt the Alaska list instead of the EPA list. Thoughts?

 
I mentioned it earlier. Waiting for the results. This should be interesting.
 
I'm surprised that this is occurring in Alaska, I could see a few states in the lower 48 doing that but Alaska of all places, there needs to be a human element involved here, I perfectly understand the inversions that occur in the Fairbanks region, but those people that live up there are a much more hardier, resourceful bunch, when government makes things to hard for the everyday Joe, the black market tends to open up, in this case it will more then likely be folks creating barrel stoves & welding there own stuff, end result, worse air then when you began, trying to nit pick things above federal standards.
 
The smoke police will catch you if you try to get all "black market". We have them here too.

WA state required better than fed standards for a long time. So you had WA legal stoves as a special feature.
 
I'm surprised that this is occurring in Alaska, I could see a few states in the lower 48 doing that but Alaska of all places, there needs to be a human element involved here, I perfectly understand the inversions that occur in the Fairbanks region, but those people that live up there are a much more hardier, resourceful bunch, when government makes things to hard for the everyday Joe, the black market tends to open up, in this case it will more then likely be folks creating barrel stoves & welding there own stuff, end result, worse air then when you began, trying to nit pick things above federal standards.
They are not nitpicking above federal standards. They are catching things that don't meet standards and got through.
 
  • Like
Reactions: woodey
They are not nitpicking above federal standards. They are catching things that don't meet standards and got through.
But maybe biggest thing is that they are using particulates from the first hour of the test burn as a better test of a stove's capability to burn cleanly - not the average of the entire burn cycle
Seems like nitpicking to me
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shrewboy
They are not nitpicking above federal standards. They are catching things that don't meet standards and got through.

I see two issues. AK was verifying that the stoves met standards properly. Cool, we should all get behind that. But then #2, the real problem, is that AK was also inventing a new standard for first hour emissions that is not a requirement of federal law but just some random criteria they pulled out of their rear end.
 
I see two issues. AK was verifying that the stoves met standards properly. Cool, we should all get behind that. But then #2, the real problem, is that AK was also inventing a new standard for first hour emissions that is not a requirement of federal law but just some random criteria they pulled out of their rear end.
And font they have the right to set their own standards?
 
And font they have the right to set their own standards?

That's a whole different question though. Obviously, as a state, they can set their own more stringent standards just like cars had CA emissions and as I wrote earlier WA had their own stove emission standards. What's being discussed is the implications of doing so.
 
So expecting companies to actually comply with the regulations in place is nitpicking?
No, from what I understand, is that there are weighted test runs, with temp sampling, air adjustments, ignition after kindling has been burnt to within 20% left of, all data is collected then an average of the test runs are taken, that yields the total of grams per hour.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-12/documents/m-28.pdf page 1431, this is known as method 28 per epa testing certification and auditing of wood heaters, its part of the test procedures that were adopted back in 1988 to have uniformity for all testing laboratories.
The nitpicking I'm referring to is when an agency combs through data and picking high numbers without possibly understanding the actual data collection, testing procedures, or mathematical terminology being used, and essentially cherry picks the answers that they want.
 
I applaud the city of Fairbanks for going through this process. Someone needs to keep stove builders honest as the EPA clearly isn't doing their job. The fact is air quality is becoming a growing concern as it's health affects are becoming more widely known by the public. I'm really glad Fairbanks is going through the effort to still allow wood stoves while singling out dirty models to clean up emissions, they could have just outright banned new woodstoves like some jurisdictions are doing.

I believe there is a lot of room for improvement in regards to stove emissions, I think there is a lot that can be done within the stove itself to improve emissions, although it may come with electronic controls. The last thing I would want though is some kind of after-treatment device to remove particulates, that would kill any reliability and benefit of owning a wood stove.
 
I am going to weigh in here with some opinions with which others may or not agree. I live here.

I am in favor of clean air to breathe, clean water to drink and clean dirt to grow food in.

1. The air quality program is complaint driven. You may burn automotive tires in your wood stove and the gummint will not investigage your 100% opaque plume until someone, a civilian, complains. This is totally boneheaded. All Alaskans carry guns, even in their Prius'. Hot chicks in their 20s can be counted on to have a short barreled 44 magnum in a clutch purse. All Americans, under the US Constitution, have the right to confront their accuser in a court of law. Nobody in town wants to be that guy, because the dirty burner is not going to get meaningful jail time.

2. Wintertime air quality is related to trapped emissions from vehicles and wood stoves mostly, plus home heating oil and our three power plants in town somewhat. The two civilian powerplants are heavily regulated, the coal fired powerplant on the Army base is out from under the influence of the EPA. In the summer time when we have forest fire smoke blowing into town, the EPA says they can't do anything about it while they spend millions and millions of dollars on projects and programs that aren't making meaninful differences in our year round air quality.

3. Fairbanks is one of the worst places in North America to build a city because of the temperature inversions. On the other hand it was one of the last habitable places in North America when the most recent ice age got a grip on the climate.

4. Of course cold start up is the dirtiest time in the life of a wood stove. In reality (not in theory), my last cold start was in late October. I probably won't do another cold start on my catalytic stove until March. The idea that my stove may or may not produce 6 grams per hour in the first hour is a useless metric, because the next first hour won't be for 5 months.

5. @ABMax24 , the city of Fairbanks is not doing this. Nor is the Fairbanks North Star Borough. FNSB is kind of like an American County, only it is about the size of Connecticut and has about 100k people living in it. One or Two election cycles ago a majority of the residents of the borough voted that the FNSB did not have the authority to regulate air quality. As FNSB is a home rule borough, this is a binding limit on the authority of the borough. The EPA is still concerned about PM 2.5 if it comes out of a chimney instead of a forest fire. So regulating burners in the FNSB falls to ADEC, the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation. You may have heard of an oil tanker named the Exxon Valdez. ADEC does not give a hoot about PM2.5 produced by forest fires either, as it is a natural process; but they have many small sharp knives at their disposal, have since the big oil spill.

6. @bholler , ADEC does have the responsibility to bring the FNSB air quality required by EPA into "compliance" but they do not apparnetly have the cojones to go after the 30 or so bad burners spoiling it for the rest of us.

7. @Highbeam all states have the right to create more restrictive laws then federal laws. It is specifically enumerated in the Constitution. Doesn't mean it is a good idea in this instance.

8. @kennyp2339 again, "but those people that live up there are a much more hardier, resourceful bunch, when government makes things to hard for the everyday Joe, "

Before I start and edit my rant I have no beef with any of the individuals I have dealt with in person at the Fiarbanks ADEC office. They have all been individually polite and helpful. Somewhere up their chain of command someone is being allowed to make bad decisions without correction, but it isn't the local office staff.

I have, so far, been to my local ADEC office three times this fall trying to get a waiver to operate my stove during stage one air quality alerts.

The first time my application was rejected because I hadn't first gone to the FNSB air quality office halfway accross town to get a signature verification that I wasn't eligible for a woodstove change out. I have gotten waivers every year since they were first required and have documented repeatedly, every year since this BS started, that the only dollars that ever flowed back into my pocket was reimbursement for a new wood stove, which I have told them about year after year after year. I do still have my bibles and guns, but not enough coinage in the little drawer in the dashboard of my truck to buy a drip coffee.

The second time, my application was rejected because the application form I downloaded in late August -from ADEC- was no longer valid in mid September. A polite individual provided me the new corrected form free of charge, but this was not noted or corrected at my first visit to ADEC. At this same visit a functionary who has previously signed off on my passive solar firewood kilns as adequate wood storage meeting ADEC standards provided me a phone number to call to be sure he was in the office when my current version application was complete because he isn't in the office every day because of COVID.

So with the signature from FNSB in my hands, and the updated application form completed, I think they need something like seven pictures with the application, another picture of the solid fuel burning device, another picture of the manufacturer's plate, another picture of the mfr date stamped on the mfr plate (thanks @BKVP ) , another picture of my wood storage area, another picture of my clean inactive combustor, another picture of my active combustor (all these have to have date/time stamps on the image printout) and whatever else, jeez Louise, proof the chimney has been swept in the last year is on there. Right right, so I called the number provided by the functionary, and I got zero useful information. I might as well have called Guam to ask for a wood splitter.

So I drove over there a third time. I got all my ducks in a row, my poop is in a group, this should be a slam dunk. I feel really bad for the little girl at the front desk, because I clearly wasn't the first this year.

If you didn't know already I am a Registered Nurse. I work in Home Health, like a district nurse in the UK, going to the homes of patients who aren't sick enough to be in the hospital but not well enough to go see their doctor in person. For the pandemic I am in white scrubs. Bleach, no starch, because starch causes whites to yellow over time. I can run an iron much better than I can run my BK stove. I have not had a haircut since May. The level two isolation gowns my department is wearing for the pandemic are basically form fitting, water impermeable trashbags. I left the house this morning with three quarts of gatorade in my truck and drank them all before they froze. I frequently have that red wishbone shape from the bridge of my nose down to the corners of mouth you have probably seen on facebook countless times. The biggest problem I had today (thankfully) was the locally owned sub shop I went to for lunch had my sandwich ready before the sweat had thoroughly dried from my scrubs, so I went back out in the cold in wet clothes. On a similar day I showed up at ADEC Fairbanks, for the third time, with a manilla folder containing my ten or twelve page application. Rumpled whites, hospital badge, tired as heck, wild hair, red wishbone centered on my nose not completely visible with my cloth mask on, but I got my completed application in one hand and two phones in the other.

The little girl was terrified. The functionary wasn't in that day. She suggested I schedule myself on the fucntionary's online calendar. Then she, very politely and with no small trepidation, verbally gave me URL that turns out to be not valid and is not google-able.

I am not going to shoot up the Fairbanks office of ADEC. The local employees are doing the best they can with what they have. I am considering canning my stage one waiver application, and blocking the number from which FNSB aire quality alerts are texted.

While I recognize my talents in cell biology and pharmokinetics, such as they are, are useless here, I also know a little bit about applied psychology. It is my opinion, as a Fairbanks resident, that EPA should throw a couple million dollars at upgrading the DoD powerplant and someone somewhere in state government needs to grow a pair to call their own and shut down the 30 or so bad burners that are ruining it for the rest of us without requiring civilian complaint. The rest of the money EPA has laying around for Fairbanks air quality should be given to forestry so they can fight forest fires blowing smoke into Fairbanks during summer months.

M2c.

Peace out, if I get booted from here.
 
Last edited:
I am going to weigh in here with some opinions with which others may or not agree. I live here.

I am in favor of clean air to breathe, clean water to drink and clean dirt to grow food in.

1. The air quality program is complaint driven. You may burn automotive tires in your wood stove and the gummint will not investigage your 100% opaque plume until someone, a civilian, complains. This is totally boneheaded. All Alaskans carry guns, even in their Prius'. Hot chicks in their 20s can be counted on to have a short barreled 44 magnum in a clutch purse. All Americans, under the US Constitution, have the right to confront their accuser in a court of law. Nobody in town wants to be that guy, because the dirty burner is not going to get meaningful jail time.

2. Wintertime air quality is related to trapped emissions from vehicles and wood stoves mostly, plus home heating oil and our three power plants in town somewhat. The two civilian powerplants are heavily regulated, the coal fired powerplant on the Army base is out from under the influence of the EPA. In the summer time when we have forest fire smoke blowing into town, the EPA says they can't do anything about it while they spend millions and millions of dollars on projects and programs that aren't making meaninful differences in our year round air quality.

3. Fairbanks is one of the worst places in North America to build a city because of the temperature inversions. On the other hand it was one of the last habitable places in North America when the most recent ice age got a grip on the climate.

4. Of course cold start up is the dirtiest time in the life of a wood stove. In reality (not in theory), my last cold start was in late October. I probably won't do another cold start on my catalytic stove until March. The idea that my stove may or may not produce 6 grams per hour in the first hour is a useless metric, because the next first hour won't be for 5 months.

5. @ABMax24 , the city of Fairbanks is not doing this. Nor is the Fairbanks North Star Borough. FNSB is kind of like an American County, only it is about the size of Connecticut and has about 100k people living in it. One or Two election cycles ago a majority of the residents of the borough voted that the FNSB did not have the authority to regulate air quality. As FNSB is a home rule borough, this is a binding limit on the authority of the borough. The EPA is still concerned about PM 2.5 if it comes out of a chimney instead of a forest fire. So regulating burners in the FNSB falls to ADEC, the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation. You may have heard of an oil tanker named the Exxon Valdez. ADEC does not give a hoot about PM2.5 produced by forest fires either, as it is a natural process; but they have many small sharp knives at their disposal, have since the big oil spill.

6. @bholler , ADEC does have the responsibility to bring the FNSB air quality required by EPA into "compliance" but they do not apparnetly have the cojones to go after the 30 or so bad burners spoiling it for the rest of us.

7. @Highbeam all states have the right to create more restrictive laws then federal laws. It is specifically enumerated in the Constitution. Doesn't mean it is a good idea in this instance.

8. @kennyp2339 again, "but those people that live up there are a much more hardier, resourceful bunch, when government makes things to hard for the everyday Joe, "

Before I start and edit my rant I have no beef with any of the individuals I have dealt with in person at the Fiarbanks ADEC office. They have all been individually polite and helpful. Somewhere up their chain of command someone is being allowed to make bad decisions without correction, but it isn't the local office staff.

I have, so far, been to my local ADEC office three times this fall trying to get a waiver to operate my stove during stage one air quality alerts.

The first time my application was rejected because I hadn't first gone to the FNSB air quality office halfway accross town to get a signature verification that I wasn't eligible for a woodstove change out. I have gotten waivers every year since they were first required and have documented repeatedly, every year since this BS started, that the only dollars that ever flowed back into my pocket was reimbursement for a new wood stove, which I have told them about year after year after year. I do still have my bibles and guns, but not enough coinage in the little drawer in the dashboard of my truck to buy a drip coffee.

The second time, my application was rejected because the application form I downloaded in late August -from ADEC- was no longer valid in mid September. A polite individual provided me the new corrected form free of charge, but this was not noted or corrected at my first visit to ADEC. At this same visit a functionary who has previously signed off on my passive solar firewood kilns as adequate wood storage meeting ADEC standards provided me a phone number to call to be sure he was in the office when my current version application was complete because he isn't in the office every day because of COVID.

So with the signature from FNSB in my hands, and the updated application form completed, I think they need something like seven pictures with the application, another picture of the solid fuel burning device, another picture of the manufacturer's plate, another picture of the mfr date stamped on the mfr plate (thanks @BKVP ) , another picture of my wood storage area, another picture of my clean inactive combustor, another picture of my active combustor (all these have to have date/time stamps on the image printout) and whatever else, jeez Louise, proof the chimney has been swept in the last year is on there. Right right, so I called the number provided by the functionary, and I got zero useful information. I might as well have called Guam to ask for a wood splitter.

So I drove over there a third time. I got all my ducks in a row, my poop is in a group, this should be a slam dunk. I feel really bad for the little girl at the front desk, because I clearly wasn't the first this year.

If you didn't know already I am a Registered Nurse. I work in Home Health, like a district nurse in the UK, going to the homes of patients who aren't sick enough to be in the hospital but not well enough to go see their doctor in person. For the pandemic I am in white scrubs. Bleach, no starch, because starch causes whites to yellow over time. I can run an iron much better than I can run my BK stove. I have not had a haircut since May. The level two isolation gowns my department is wearing for the pandemic are basically form fitting, water impermeable trashbags. I left the house this morning with three quarts of gatorade in my truck and drank them all before they froze. I frequently have that red wishbone shape from the bridge of my nose down to the corners of mouth you have probably seen on facebook countless times. The biggest problem I had today (thankfully) was the locally owned sub shop I went to for lunch had my sandwich ready before the sweat had thoroughly dried from my scrubs, so I went back out in the cold in wet clothes. On a similar day I showed up at ADEC Fairbanks, for the third time, with a manilla folder containing my ten or twelve page application. Rumpled whites, hospital badge, tired as heck, wild hair, red wishbone centered on my nose not completely visible with my cloth mask on, but I got my completed application in one hand and two phones in the other.

The little girl was terrified. The functionary wasn't in that day. She suggested I schedule myself on the fucntionary's online calendar. Then she, very politely and with no small trepidation, verbally gave me URL that turns out to be not valid and is not google-able.

I am not going to shoot up the Fairbanks office of ADEC. The local employees are doing the best they can with what they have. I am considering canning my stage one waiver application, and blocking the number from which FNSB aire quality alerts are texted.

While I recognize my talents in cell biology and pharmokinetics, such as they are, are useless here, I also know a little bit about applied psychology. It is my opinion, as a Fairbanks resident, that EPA should throw a couple million dollars at upgrading the DoD powerplant and someone somewhere in state government needs to grow a pair to call their own and shut down the 30 or so bad burners that are ruining it for the rest of us without requiring civilian complaint. The rest of the money EPA has laying around for Fairbanks air quality should be given to forestry so they can fight forest fires blowing smoke into Fairbanks during summer months.

M2c.

Peace out, if I get booted from here.

I can't believe you are willing to go into people's houses. My wife is a home care LPN and we are both basically quarantined at home because we both have compromised immune systems, for different reasons. I'm glad you have good PPE, good luck with your adventures in bureaucracy.
 
It’s a sad commentary that the 30 bad burners are the ones that mostly mess things up but others are forced to adjust.
I don’t live there, but I’d have to imagine that a lot of the issue have to do with wet wood. You can have an absolute killer new stove but with crappy burning practices-it’s moot. I can only speak to having a non-cat stove though.
 
Last edited:
the real problem, is that AK was also inventing a new standard for first hour emissions that is not a requirement of federal law but just some random criteria they pulled out of their rear end.
ADEC is using the first hour of emissions because manufacturers are required to test for it and report it. In my opinion, a better metric would be the first 2 -3 hours when a stove produces the vast majority of its PM after loading. ADEC is doing this because the only way many stoves can pass testing is by having a very long tail. So, if manufacturers are going to design for the test and test labs are going to do their best to certify, they need very long tails at the end of the burn when there is virtually no PM, but lots of CO. But the result of the 6 gram cut off is that its more likely to bar larger stoves, which is exactly what is needed in Fairbanks. But let's see in about a week how this all pans out, and how many stoves get disqualified and why. One thing is for sure, and that is NESCAUM is watching it all very closely as they try to come up with new testing protocols using cordwood.
 
It’s a sad commentary that the 30 bad burners are the ones that mostly mess things up but others are forced to adjust.
I don’t live there, but I’d have to imagine that a lot of the issue have to do with wet wood. You can have an absolute killer new stove but with crappy burning practices-it’s moot. I can only speak to having a non-cat stove though.

30 bad burners is my personal estimate. This is my fourth winter where my job requires me to basicaslly drive around the air shed. My agency's service area and the rectangle of death defined by the EPA mostly overlap. I have three of them saved in my GPS, but I can't very well bill my employer for me driving out of my way to get the street address of that one over there off my intended route, so I haven't been doing that.

The three I have saved in my GPS all had a trailer of green logs in their driveway, piles of sawdust, splitter with chips between trailer and door to house, and black smoke. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find these folks.

I do think if someone handles the 30 dirtiest burners in the area my local air quality will improve measurably, I testified that to the FNSB assembly publicly during one of the comment periods back when FNSB was trying to regulate air quality. I don't know if that will be enough to bring us into EPA compliance, but it makes, to me, more sense to get the flagrant violators out of the picture and see where we are before writing new wood strove standards. ~50k people in the non attainment area, 30/50k , let's get 0.06% of the population shut down for two months and see how much of the problem goes away by enforcing the laws already on the books.

How about 0.05%, just 25 flagrant chimneys and see what happens?

In other news I do have ADECs air quality complaint page in my book marks, and this year I can , it looks like, file anonymous complaints.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus
they need very long tails at the end of the burn when there is virtually no PM, but lots of CO. But the result of the 6 gram cut off is that its more likely to bar larger stoves, which is exactly what is needed in Fairbanks.

John, I know from your previous threads you are both observant and intelligent, but in this instance my local observations indicate the three clauses quoted disagree with themselves.

Because my stove is still running when I get home from work and still burning when I wake up in the morning I can reload on hot coals with perhaps 10 minutes of visible stack plume - per day- for months at a time.

The folks with small stoves that are cold in the AM and cold after work are looking at two cold starts daily, two first hours of emissions every day, versus the 5+5 minutes of hot reload plume I can reasonably generate with my larger stove for five months of the year.

Because of the pandemic I cannot invite you to ride around in my truck with me. If you want to come see for yourself I will be happy to mark up a local map for you to follow in your rented vehicle.
 
And another thing, Natural Gas. great idea, low emissions, cheap on the global market, a pinata of Alaska politics.

I would be delighted if the EPA were to fast track permitting to build a NG pipepline adjacent to the exisiting oil pipeline from Valdez to Fairbanks. Then we could all switch to NG and buy LNG on the gobal marketplace.

The oil companies want the state to build a NG pipeline from Prudhoe to Fairbanks - eventully continuing on to Valdez.

In the latter scenario big oil pumps natural gas belonging to the state (me) out of the grown, pushes it into a pipeline I paid for, pays a small fee to the state (me) for every unit of NG they pump out of the ground - and then sells me back my very own natural gas at a higher ( no competitors) price in a captive market.

Not having it that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T-roy_ and SpaceBus
Pharmokokinetics - /ˌfärməkōkəˈnediks/ noun: the act of doing what is necessary to get things done without knuckleheads in local government getting in ones way. syn IDGAF.

Joking of course but I had to comment since I had never heard or seen that word before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brenndatomu
Here's an update on the Alaska process: https://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2020/11/alaska-releases-deficiency-details-on.html. They posted results of their review on every stove, and basically found issues with the reporting of every stove. So, now they have to figure out what is a minor paperwork issue, and which issues are more serious, and represent a real lapse by the test lab.

Nearly a third of wood stoves emitted more than 6 grams during the first hour of a test and only 3% of pellet stove models had that issue - not surprisingly. One of the upshots is an increased scrutiny of the ASTM cordwood standard, as it appears now to be an easier test, and came in time for many units to use it to pass the 2020 standards more easily. Stay tuned for more.
 
Stay tuned...

Are the fires started bottom up? I have noted less visible emissions when starting when doing a top-down start. Secondary combustion starts much earlier.
 
I'm interested to see the reports and future investigations. Just like in Formula One, stricter rules will bring out better stoves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ABMax24