Alcove . . . Good, Bad, Indifferent

[firefighterjake]

Well I've narrowed my two stove choices down to the Jotul Oslo or the Hearthstone Shelburne. Right now my wife and I are trying to figure out where to place the stove based on the size, clearance issues and heating needs.

One option is to put it in the corner of my small den and then open up the den/living room wall with a pair of french doors which we will leave open to the living room and dining room. Since this is a small den it looks like we would lose quite a bit of space to the woodstove/clearance issues (and in fact would end up tiling the entire floor since the hearth sizes for these stoves would take up close to 1/3 of the room.

The second option is to build an alcove in the living room/den wall. We would lose some space to the den and the stove would jut out into the living room some as the sides and top of the alcove would not fully enclose the stove. This option looks like it would keep us from losing too much of the space in the den to the stove.

My question . . . are there any advantages/disadvantages to alcoves vs. free-standing stoves?

 

[Hogwildz]

Well I've narrowed my two stove choices down to the Jotul Oslo or the Hearthstone Shelburne. Right now my wife and I are trying to figure out where to place the stove based on the size, clearance issues and heating needs.

One option is to put it in the corner of my small den and then open up the den/living room wall with a pair of french doors which we will leave open to the living room and dining room. Since this is a small den it looks like we would lose quite a bit of space to the woodstove/clearance issues (and in fact would end up tiling the entire floor since the hearth sizes for these stoves would take up close to 1/3 of the room.

The second option is to build an alcove in the living room/den wall. We would lose some space to the den and the stove would just out into the living room some as the sides and top of the alcove would not fully enclose the stove. This option looks like it would keep us from losing too much of the space in the den to the stove.

My question . . . are there any advantages/disadvantages to alcoves vs. free-standing stoves?

IMO, free standing will let more heat freely distribute around the area. The alcove will be more work, more cost and will essentially be several walls blocking the natural radiation & circulation of heat from the stove.

 

[begreen]

Agreed the alcove will be more work, but if the alcove location is more central and promotes better overall heat circulation, I would consider it. From the description it sounds like this would be a shallow alcove. That will work well I think, especially if the alcove ceiling is not flat, but angled upward into the room. To keep the projection into the room at a minimum, order with a rear-shield and use double-wall pipe. If this is for the Oslo, be sure to take in account the additional clearance needed on the side loading door side.

 

[firefighterjake]

Agreed the alcove will be more work, but if the alcove location is more central and promotes better overall heat circulation, I would consider it. From the description it sounds like this would be a shallow alcove. That will work well I think, especially if the alcove ceiling is not flat, but angled upward into the room. To keep the projection into the room at a minimum, order with a rear-shield and use double-wall pipe. If this is for the Oslo, be sure to take in account the additional clearance needed on the side loading door side.

Yes . . . this would be a shallow alcove. The way we would design this would have the stove jutting out of the alcove by 15-18 inches with the remainder in the alcove (the thinking being that we would lose not as much space in the den.) Ordering a stove with double wall pipe and a rear heat shield would be a given since we're working with tight space requirements.

 

[firefighterjake]

This question kind of goes along with the original posted question . . . based on the house plan and house type (1970s vintage Cape -- 2 x 4 walls, insulated to the standard of the time plus some more (done by us) am I correct in looking at the Oslo and Shelburne or should I be looking at something smaller?

I realize that based on the proposed locations of the stove and the house lay-out that some areas of the house will not get as much (or any) heat from the woodstove (i.e. utility room and perhaps the master bedroom.)

I'm thinking it is better to have a larger stove and damp it down some rather than have a smaller stove and run it more . . . but then again I am sure there is such a thing as having too much of a stove and of course larger stoves = more space and since space is an issue. . . .

So how about it . . . would the Oslo or Shelburne (or Phoenix for that matter) work well for my house or would I be better off with something smaller?

So many questions . . . sometimes my head feels like it's just taking in way, way too much information.

 

[begreen]

Based on the drawing, location 2 is way better. Based on your location, getting a stove one size larger is a good idea. You have a couple of good stoves picked out. There are other stoves that could work, but I think staying in the 2 cu ft range is a good plan.

 

[firefighterjake]

Based on the drawing, location 2 is way better. Based on your location, getting a stove one size larger is a good idea. You have a couple of good stoves picked out. There are other stoves that could work, but I think staying in the 2 cu ft range is a good plan.

Thanks for the fast reply . . . I was thinking that the Oslo and Shelburne sized stoves would be a better fit, but needed a little reassuring that I wasn't going too big. And thank you for your opinion on the location . . . this site is truly a great resource.

 

[firefighterjake]

Would facing the alcove walls with brick/stone/tile/etc. vs. leaving it as simple drywall help retain the heat and allow it to radiate outwards while burning (or after the fire has gone out) . . . or would the benefits be minimal in this case. Of course, I realize that facing the alcove would not meet NFPA 211's reduction/clearance provision . . . just wondering if the added aesthetics might also offer some benefit or if it wouldn't be worth the time and money.

 

[begreen]

Aesthetically, that's your call. I think it would dress it up nicely if it goes with the style of the house. The thermal benefits of the added mass of stone might not be stunning, but it would contribute something.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

This question kind of goes along with the original posted question . . . based on the house plan and house type (1970s vintage Cape -- 2 x 4 walls, insulated to the standard of the time plus some more (done by us) am I correct in looking at the Oslo and Shelburne or should I be looking at something smaller?

I realize that based on the proposed locations of the stove and the house lay-out that some areas of the house will not get as much (or any) heat from the woodstove (i.e. utility room and perhaps the master bedroom.)

I'm thinking it is better to have a larger stove and damp it down some rather than have a smaller stove and run it more . . . but then again I am sure there is such a thing as having too much of a stove and of course larger stoves = more space and since space is an issue. . . .

So how about it . . . would the Oslo or Shelburne (or Phoenix for that matter) work well for my house or would I be better off with something smaller?

So many questions . . . sometimes my head feels like it's just taking in way, way too much information.

i might have missed somthing , but why not corner the stove in that corner of th eliving room near your option 2 location? or would it eat up too much space. as for alcoves , there are restrictions due to size (of alcove)unless the stove was listed to be inserted into one in which case the manual would tell you how big it would have to be.if it does not give a listing for the alcove , the minimum alcove size is 512 sq ft according to NFPA211.

 

[begreen]

Mike, that would be a 10 x 50 ft space. My living room isn't 512 sq ft. Is that only for unlisted stoves or is a decimal point missing?

 

[Hogwildz]

Maybe he meant cubic feet? Still seems like alot.

 

[firefighterjake]

This question kind of goes along with the original posted question . . . based on the house plan and house type (1970s vintage Cape -- 2 x 4 walls, insulated to the standard of the time plus some more (done by us) am I correct in looking at the Oslo and Shelburne or should I be looking at something smaller?

I realize that based on the proposed locations of the stove and the house lay-out that some areas of the house will not get as much (or any) heat from the woodstove (i.e. utility room and perhaps the master bedroom.)

I'm thinking it is better to have a larger stove and damp it down some rather than have a smaller stove and run it more . . . but then again I am sure there is such a thing as having too much of a stove and of course larger stoves = more space and since space is an issue. . . .

So how about it . . . would the Oslo or Shelburne (or Phoenix for that matter) work well for my house or would I be better off with something smaller?

So many questions . . . sometimes my head feels like it's just taking in way, way too much information.

i might have missed somthing , but why not corner the stove in that corner of th eliving room near your option 2 location? or would it eat up too much space. as for alcoves , there are restrictions due to size (of alcove)unless the stove was listed to be inserted into one in which case the manual would tell you how big it would have to be.if it does not give a listing for the alcove , the minimum alcove size is 512 sq ft according to NFPA211.

We considered the corner of the living room as our original choice, but this would use up quite a bit of space and is close to a window (not shown in the drawing.) As of right now (of course things can change) we're leaning towards the alcove and angling the top and sides (while keeping with the clearance requirements for alcoves.)

I am a bit confused as to floor protection requirements though. The downloaded Jotul Oslo manual states that floor protection is needed (for general installs), but never states a required R-rating (does this mean any listed floor protection regardless of R value is OK to use) . . . even though it does state in the alcove install section that "if a listed hearth board is not used the hearth that is constructed must have a minimum value of 1.6" Does this mean that any listed floor protection can be used for a free standing stove . . . I would also assume that in an alcove install whether we would go with a commercial built and listed floor protection or whether we would build our own floor protection would not matter -- it would still require protection with a R value of at least 1.6?

Conversely I noticed with the Hearthstone Shelburne that it requires a floor protection with a R value of .8 . . . but under alcove installs it does not state that any additional floor protection to raise the R value is needed. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[begreen]

Regardless of logic, you need to follow the manual. Considering the manual has specced out the alcove hearth value specifically at R 1.6, that is what it needs to be built to. But there is no harm exceeding minimum spec. Fortunately an air gap will cover most of this for you. Craig suggested a nice hearth sandwich that will get you there inexpensively. Put a layer of durock or wonderboard, then a layer of sheetmetal (metal not required, but a good measure of safety), then use some hat channel to create the air gap, space on 12" centers. Then put two more layers of durock screwed down per mfg guidelines, then tile, brick or stone on top. Your hearth will then cover the Oslo or even an R2.0 stove if you change out in the future.