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Am I wasting Fuel?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Mark McKenna, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    Yup can do, I've got my good camera, and by the time I get home from work, I'll be able to get in there without having it melt in my hands.

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  2. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    In what is perhaps the longest wait for a picture ever I have taken one today while cleaning my chimney/stove. I'm guessing it was over-fired a few times, (when I bought the house I have to replace the upper baffle as it was broken and moved to the side, the first time i lit the stove I noticed the top got red.) I'm just surprise that any amount of wood heat could do this.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see the "Angle Iron" piece is completely eaten away, it's rather shocking. And if you look at the glass you'll notice it doesn't seem to be washing very well anymore.

    Anyone ever see anything like this? This is my basement stove so I can probably live with dirtier glass.Maybe I'll grind off what's left and weld a new piece on?
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The stove looks like it is being overfired regularly, perhaps a victim of being out of sight and out of mind. I'm not sure if this damage is repairable. It will depend on how extensive it is. There appears to be warping in the secondaries. Is the door warped too? Could be just the camera angle though.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  4. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    Ya like I said when I lit up my first fire in it it went red, I have no idea how long they were doing that before I bought the house. Ya the secondaries are warped down, I will be replacing those tubes. The door seems to be fine I replaced the gasket and it holds a piece of paper nicely in all sections. There is no noticeable warping in the sides of the stove. The top has a very slight rise in the center.
  5. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Time to figure out where the air is leaking in, if its turning red with the air turned down. Start with the door!
  6. Beer Belly

    Beer Belly Minister of Fire

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    looks like rust to meo_O
  7. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Which should give you a clue about where the heat in the basement is going.
    Oh, and welcome to the Hearth.
    The Regency 2400 stoves are nice and a bit over 2 cu. ft..
    Insulating the basement walls will help a bunch.
    ETA: Just noticed how old this thread is. Oops.
    Still applies. Better late than never?==c
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  8. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    Ya I kinda necropost'd this one, but I've decided to take on the project again and figured it would be best to have the history in the thread.

    Anyone know how important that angle piece is to the operation of the stove? My theory is that it redirects some of the air onto the window as part of the airwash? It doesn't seem to have any air holes itself.
  9. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Have you tried contacting a dealer or the manufacturer?
    Seems they'd be the best source for info., unless someone here knows for sure.
  10. flhpi

    flhpi Burning Hunk

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    As you said, it could of been used to direct air across the window. I have seen some stoves that have a lip up on top to prevent smoke from spilling out on reload.

    Good luck with your project.
  11. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    I don't know anything about your stove but agree it has been abused.. Since so few parts are used in making a stove it probably needs to be replaced..

    Good luck!

    Ray
  12. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    Thanks, ya I' sent regency an e-mail last year and I never heard back. I'm gonna try to find a more local dealer.
  13. MaFire

    MaFire New Member

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    My Regency 2400 also looks like this inside (my door is clean). However, the "Angle Iron" piece in yours is more like "Red Bricks" in mine. When touched the material rubs off like chalk. We are very careful with our stove (bought in 2006) and only burn it hot the first 10 - 15 minutes. It's then turned down to a low setting. It's never been red or shown on the thermometer to be above the burn range for more than a couple minutes.

    Regency would not help me directly and referred me to a dealer. The dealer cannot tell me what the part is named or what it does. They said I should inspect the stove after each burn for cracking. I'm looking for another dealer to see if they can help. Would appreciate any insights and will share what I find.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    raybonz likes this.
  14. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    I've registered my stove on their warranty registry and finally got a hold of my local dealer... I'll keep ya posted.
  15. MaFire

    MaFire New Member

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    After *much* time and ado, here's the story. The"Angle Iron" is actually called an "air wash stiffener bracket". It is made of steel. The metallurgist I consulted used to make steel. He said moisture was the cause of the corrosion, not heat. Logs contain moisture. Bottom line is the type of steel used for the stiffener does not hold up for this use. It cannot be replaced. The good news is the stove can be used even though the stiffener is corroded. The dealer who helped me said they've only seen a manufacturer replace a stove part when a problem was found right after purchase. In our case parts that are covered under the warranty that needed replacement (airtube and door handle) were not replaced under the warranty . Regency claimed that our "over use" of the stove caused these parts to fail. They could find no fault with any aspect of our operation and relied solely on the corrosion of the air wash stiffener bracket, citing a clause in the warranty that reads "The warranty will not extend to any part which ... in our judgement has been subject to misuse." The dealer who filed the claim with Regency would not give me a copy of Regency's response to it nor would they help me get parts unless they installed them. I had to find another dealer who had stopped working with Regency due to such problems to help me get the parts I needed. I'm hoping my post will save others time and frustration.
  16. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    That's a crock of $hit! Hell we pay as much as a boiler for these stoves and they must be designed to be used 24/7 not occasionally.. I don't buy that line at all! Make them right and these issues will go away..

    Ray
  17. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    I am sorry we are a regency dealer and regency has told us they will replace the stove for that problem. if it is still covered under warranty I think your dealer is feeding you a line.
    raybonz likes this.
  18. McKeznak

    McKeznak New Member

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    Wow MaFire I had the exact same response from my dealer, they said Regency will not replace or do anything with this issue.
  19. smokedragon

    smokedragon Minister of Fire

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    Have you done the dollar bill test? Even on my ancient insert I do it every season (and sometimes during the season if we hit a warm patch). Run close the door on a dollar bill in several locations around the door. If you can slide the bill out, you are leaking air. Even non-certified stoves perform better and burn more completely when they are air tight.

    I used to get a lot of coals, but my problem was moisture in the wood. If you are only getting coals in one of your stoves, I doubt it's your wood.
  20. Lumber-Jack

    Lumber-Jack Minister of Fire

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    Having a regency stove myself, and hearing different opinions of their support from people in this thread, I like to get to the core of things and cut out all the speculation, so I sent an email directly to Regency support through their web page, and sent a link to this thread and asked them to read it and give me their thoughts on the mater.
    Within a few minutes I got a reply back. I won't give the name of the chap who relied, but I will give him kudos for his quick response, and I'm incline to agree with him on the real issue of the corrosion.
  21. smokedragon

    smokedragon Minister of Fire

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    Well I am shopping for a replacement stove/insert for my current antique.......Regency I3100 is now officially off of my list.

    Your dealer said you could safely use the stove, but what about the comment directly above mine (implying that this corrosion could creep up your chimney)? Do you have any steel connector pipe, or is it hooked directly to a SS liner?

    Best of luck.
  22. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    These "orange angles" as well as similar tubes have been an issue (I hesitate to say problem for many reasons) in many non-cats over the years. In some ways it's a testament to how hot these things really burn. In others, it's perhaps a lack of foresight in design and engineering.
    The orange color is very typical to steel or cast-iron parts which have gotten too hot. Both metals tend to eventually delaminate when exposed to those very high temperatures. I've seen it dozens - maybe hundreds - of times over the years...

    Most stove manufacturers discovered this in the 90's after their new non-cat designs were in the field for a couple of years. The solution was to change the designs and make the parts easier to replace. A typical setup was the Avalon stoves where an angle iron was just laid across - not welded, and the air tubes were eventually also replaceable or retrofittable without welding (although sometimes you need a hacksaw to remove the old one)...

    All in all these were decent solutions. Baffles made of standard firebrick and relatively inexpensive steel....easily replaceable....is probably a better solution than trying to engineer something which could hold up to the temps - because nothing in the realm of regular metal would!

    Lab rats could tell you more, but I suspect such tubes and angles regularly see temperatures over 1200 degree F. Common metals are not designed for such temps - even a fancy ss chimney liner is only tested to a constant 1000 F (and ss is higher temp than mild)....

    It might be that aluminized steel (used in furnaces) or other alloy would last longer - but I suspect the folks at some of these stove companies have tried them!

    IMHO, it's not a matter of if these parts will need replacing - it's only a question of when. That's why ease of replacement and relatively low cost for the parts is the key (IMHO).
    raybonz likes this.
  23. smokedragon

    smokedragon Minister of Fire

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    There are steel alloys that can handle 1200 + ::F but there is a cost factor. Pound for pound they would cost 10 - 15 times what mild steel costs. Much above that you are right, you are talking stainless.

    Still the manufacturer could put in a stainless part there for higher temps, but why? It is cheaper to make it a part that can easily be replaced and make it out of mild steel.

    In searching for a new stove to replace my smoke dragon, that is one thing that led me to brands like Jotul and Quadrafire......they have lifetime warranties (Jotul goes so far as to warranty the secondary combustion and baffles on the new F55). They are using higher quality materials, which in my mind is worth a premium. But I have always had the mindset of buy a good thing once versus a cheap thing 4 times over my life.

    I agree with you though, it is a real testament to how hot these stoves can burn, and how much more heat they hold in the firebox.

    I can run my old smoke dragon with both doors open and would have trouble getting above 700 degrees on top. Of course that's because more of my heat is going up that SS liner.:eek:
  24. Kosmik

    Kosmik Member

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    NE Onatario...
    I remember when my neighbor put in a radiant heat system for his stone drive.
    My dad looks at me and says "Colorado is an expensive state to heat"...
    I can only imagine how much Ontario costs.

    If you want heat to radiate through the floor then don't insulate it (basement ceiling). But basement walls and floor insulation would be the min on my list. Or just R-30+ for the floor (basement ceiling) if leaving basement uninsulated, and taking basement stove offline.

    Think of your living space as an envelope. Your insulation is the paper. Where there isn't insulation, there is a tear in the envelope.
  25. ddahlgren

    ddahlgren Feeling the Heat

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    Ok I don't get the both doors open and the stove getting hot. With my little Avalon Pendleton the less air I give it at least to a point the stove gets hotter and the stack colder of course the opposite when I add air stack gets crazy hot and stove goes down. Right now stove is 650 stack is 500 on probe and 300 on surface temp and around 9F outside and house rather cool / cold and the reason stove temp is low, it is working like crazy and going through wood at a pretty good pace. Saying all that it is small and can only do so much it is a night to surf the web feed the stove and nap on the couch. One more day of this nonsense the temps work their way into the high 40's for the weekend.

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