Any Econoburn customers here?

[heaterman]

Judging by the number of people trying to find an installer, I think the boys and I should load the threader, torches and tools in the van and live on the road this summer. Have tools will travel.

Seriously, I have a gut feeling that if a person takes to time to understand what needs to be done, doesn't try to "save money" by cutting corners and works with Econoburn by maybe sending in a drawing of your plan, the warranty would be OK. I can't call their shots for them but I have found them to be a company that will literally bend over backward to help someone. I recommend their product 100% and the company itself 110%

 

[reflex1957]

I am slightly pleased with my EB-150, There have been a couple of problems which have since been rectified however the one that has been ongoing is a major creosote build up inside and all around the loading door as well, If the unit turns itself of and cools down it is almost impossible for my wife to open it by hand, A pry bar is needed for her to do this. The intial saleman who came to our home failed to do a heat loss calculation and sold us the EB-150 when it got here it would not fit into my basement, Because he forgot to measure the doors, then he told me that he could not insatll it until late fall early winter ( i had it on my driveway in June of 08, ) But after all is said and done an dit is up and running the creosote build up is nuts I have to scrape it several times a week with a hd putty knife and each time i scrape it i get a baseball to softball size amount of creosote. And now the comany whom I purchased it from in Webster Massachusetts tells me that he is no longer a dealer or repair facility for Alternative Boilers as they have parted ways due to unforseen circumstances and that I am on my own... WELL speaking to the a/b main office I was told after providing them with a heat loss calulation that an EB-100 would have done the job just fine. and the reason the creosote is this bad is that the stove will not go into gasifacation mode??? and is always running to low creatring creosote, I am going NUTS Can anyone shed some more light on this problem, has anyone else had the creosote problem.. ????????, and what is this storage I am hearing about.. I need to get it up and runnng in the next several weeks i am sure so help fast if you can..Thank you.. JV in Brooklyn CT

 

[mtnmizer]

JV: Get some storage for your boiler and I believe the creosote problem
will go away. You could also be burning too green of wood. I ran a ebw
150 without storage and get some creosote but not to the point of sealing the
door shut. Smaller fuel loads will help with that if storage can't be added,
ie smaller hotter fires. BTW I heat a 5K sq ft house in the mtns with a ebw150
in -20 weather running with no storage and not getting much creosote. I
gets creosote when it goes to idle. MM

 

[Chainsaw]

you say your dealer was in Webster MA? I live in CT and have an EBW-150 on order - the local dealer is in Bridgeport. Called the factory to order and they told me I had to go thru the local dealer. He also has a local plumber in Shelton CT that does the installs and work on them

 

[dogwood]

A recent post, within the last month or so, on Econoburns stated that you could get dealer signoffs on installs in order to validate their warranty. Do a search on site of Econoburns and you will run across it.

Mike

 

[Piker]

I am slightly pleased with my EB-150, There have been a couple of problems which have since been rectified however the one that has been ongoing is a major creosote build up inside and all around the loading door as well, If the unit turns itself of and cools down it is almost impossible for my wife to open it by hand, A pry bar is needed for her to do this. The intial saleman who came to our home failed to do a heat loss calculation and sold us the EB-150 when it got here it would not fit into my basement, Because he forgot to measure the doors, then he told me that he could not insatll it until late fall early winter ( i had it on my driveway in June of 08, ) But after all is said and done an dit is up and running the creosote build up is nuts I have to scrape it several times a week with a hd putty knife and each time i scrape it i get a baseball to softball size amount of creosote. And now the comany whom I purchased it from in Webster Massachusetts tells me that he is no longer a dealer or repair facility for Alternative Boilers as they have parted ways due to unforseen circumstances and that I am on my own... WELL speaking to the a/b main office I was told after providing them with a heat loss calulation that an EB-100 would have done the job just fine. and the reason the creosote is this bad is that the stove will not go into gasifacation mode??? and is always running to low creatring creosote, I am going NUTS Can anyone shed some more light on this problem, has anyone else had the creosote problem.. ????????, and what is this storage I am hearing about.. I need to get it up and runnng in the next several weeks i am sure so help fast if you can..Thank you.. JV in Brooklyn CT

Most of the time, when we hear discouraging remarks about the european style downdraft gassers, the discontent with the boiler has far more to do with paradigms that the consumer has established in their mind about how wood boilers should be installed and operated as opposed to the actual science of installation and operation. This is not a judgement, just a thought that deserves at least some consideration.

Creosote in the upper chamber of a downdraft is common and harmless, though significant increase in the amount of it can be attributed to many things... first and formost being the quality and moisture content of the wood, and secondly the amount of time that the boiler spends in idle. If you are consistently burning more than 8 hours or so on a load of wood you will no doubt have increased levels of creosote in the upper chamber as well as a small amount of the flakey variety of creosote in the bottom chamber. Normally this is not too harmful aside from reduced thermal transfer through the boiler plate. If the creosote is excessive just limit the amount of wood placed in the upper chamber during times when heat load is low to decrease overall output and increase efficiency. If on the other hand, your burn times for a load of wood are much shorter than 8 hours and the creosote is still extremely heavy in the upper chamber, then high moisture content is likely the culprit. Sometimes what we think is dry will be anything but. Another issue that can cause excecssive creosote buildup in any boiler is very cold combustion air... but my guess here is wood moisture content... Lesson: always check the wood first. Get a meter... check the wood. The task of removing creosote from the bottom ledge of the door can be made easier by doing it while the boiler is still hot... perhaps just as the fire has burned to coals.

If your EBW150 is a little oversized... that's not really a problem unless you are overfilling it to get exremely long burn times... like i said in the paragraph above, just limit the wood load in the upper chamber when you can. You can easily turn a 150 into a 75 or less by doing this. In order to operate any wood appliance efficiently, you have to maintain the hottest, but smallest fire necessary to satisfy the heat load.

Thermal storage is just a place to store heat for use at a later time. By having enough thermal storage to keep your boiler operating at maximum output for it's entire burn cycle, you increase combustion efficiency, reduce emissions, keep the boiler cleaner inside, and ease the burden on yourself with respect to refueling. Thermal storage is almost always desireable on a DD gasifier system... but it's not absolutely necessary with an econoburn. The vast majority of folks with DD's do not have thermal storage and are well pleased with the performance. A little practical assistance from some folks in the industry, some finesse, and an open mind go a long way.

I hope this helped... you are more than welcome to call if you have additional questions.

cheers

 

[maplewood]

[quote author="Piker" date="1251327655 ... the discontent with the boiler has far more to do with paradigms that the consumer has established in their mind about how wood boilers should be installed and operated as opposed to the actual science of installation and operation. This is not a judgement, just a thought that deserves at least some consideration.

... just limit the wood load in the upper chamber when you can. You can easily turn a 150 into a 75 or less by doing this. In order to operate any wood appliance efficiently, you have to maintain the hottest, but smallest fire necessary to satisfy the heat load.

Thermal storage is just a place to store heat for use at a later time. By having enough thermal storage to keep your boiler operating at maximum output for it's entire burn cycle, you increase combustion efficiency, reduce emissions, keep the boiler cleaner inside, and ease the burden on yourself with respect to refueling. Thermal storage is almost always desireable on a DD gasifier system... but it's not absolutely necessary with an econoburn. [/quote]

Thanks, Piker. Your comments are exactly why I read this forum daily. And it's why, after 2 years of reading and preparing, I bought my 150. It's getting installed in 2 weeks! I'm like a kid before Christmas!

(My vote is for wet wood, too. Get a moisture meter. Deal with the facts. Only the facts.)

Happy burning.

 

[wantstoburnwood]

Hey Maplewood I just installed my ebw 150 last Oct. The lead up to first firing was worse than a "kid at Christmas" . And this fall its almost as bad waiting for the cold weather. You'll enjoy the heat from your Econoburn. Keep us posted on your progress .

 

[altheating]

Tennman, I just completed three days at the NYS Woodsmen's Field Days as a dealer/distributor of Econoburn Boilers. I was amazed at how many of my Econoburn customers came by to say hello and how well they liked the Econoburn units. Having these satisfied customers in the tent sure helps to close the deals! I did have one complaint about creosote, but when all was said and done I found out that he was using wet unseasoned firewood. It still amazes me when we tell potential customers and especially traditional OWB users that their wood usage can be cut by 1/4 to 2/3rds they still argue the point and tell us we are lying. I wish we could get all potential buyers oe traditional OWB's to stop by this forum and spend a few hours looking around.

Just to remind all those who still have not made the purchase of their Econoburn, the factory rebate despairs on Monday August 31st. Any central New Yorkers that want to get one ordered before the end of the month, I am giving the factory discount to you up front so you don't have to wait for the factory rebate check.

 

[pybyr]

I agree about checking the wood to verify that its moisture level is suitable.

After hooking up my boiler (Econoburn 150) 1-15-09, my first burns for about a month and a half were with wood that had been cut & split a year or two ahead. Easy to light, easy to get into full-bore secondary burn, and tons of heat output per unit of wood. I then ran out of that best wood, and started using wood that had been brought out of the woods in late Summer/ early Fall 08 (way too late to allow adequate time for much real seasoning for that winter, but that was the schedule that weather and other things in life had dealt me at the time). The difference was immense- the "new" wood made it trickier/ more time-consuming to get the secondary burn going, did not seem to yield as much net heat per unit of wood, and I did see more deposits on the inside walls of the upper firebox than I'd seen (though nothing extreme). End results with the newer wood were still OK, but definitely not as impressive as with the better wood. _None_ of this was the fault of the boiler- if you're trying to burn wood with (relatively) high moisture levels, you- and your boiler- are inevitably winding up doing it the hard way.

Proper hook-up to a properly designed and configured system probably makes more of a distinct difference in wood gasifier performance than it does for a conventional oil, propane, or natural gas boiler. And, as many have noted, even if you're used to burning wood, getting the hang of the way to run a gasifier best and most easily will be a new learning curve- but it will get better as you get accustomed.

 

[willworkforwood]

Reflex1957 - welcome to the forum. Be assured that the comments about dry wood are 100% on target. I have an almost identical story as Pybyr's in my first year of use, and did get the stuck door a few times. But, I knew going in that some my wood wasn't going to be dry enough. I could set my watch by it - the dry wood burned well with good heat, and the less-dry stuff produced chamber creosote, and less effective heat. We do what Piker suggests - tailor the size of the fire to the heat load. If you have someone home during the day, try feeding the fire every 1-3 hours, typically when its down to just a good coal bed (not so user-friendly if your boiler is outside far away from the house). You can make your boiler output become "variable" with the size of the fire, and you will be glad to have the 150 when it's below zero. Install storage if you can, but you can also make it work ok without it. But, the bottom line is to use dry wood. Either split a whole lot smaller and stack it loose asap (i.e. yesterday); or else buy some dry stuff (check it with a mm before buying). One other thing you could do is buy hw pallets to mix with less-seasoned wood. I pass by a pallet outfit in Hubbardston Ma that looks to have a big supply of broken ones. Sorry to hear about JV getting away from Econoburn - they did a nice job on my install. If you follow the advice in this thread, you will become way more than "slightly pleased" with your boiler - good luck!

 

[reflex1957]

Not a clue here in regards to storage, what type do you mean, where can it be obtained, must a dealer install it, I can soldier myself did my new addition. And no leaks, HA HA.

Also, I was told by the Econoburn customer service staff that my problem may be just that it is on slow burn way to long, Ok so then how do I adjust it.

Also have yours had yours serviced at all, My tech came here and I gave him the directions and he was Pissed that everyone told him hat the tube cleaning rods just slide right out and then slide right back in again after you clean them with a 2 inch. Brush. UMM NOT at all. Opinion please. My tech spent 45 minutes getting them and 30 getting them back in. even after we sprayed them down good with silicone.

Now I am about to fire it up with in the next week or so, in regards to the wood, the directions say burn a 20% moisture wood, not totally dry but just 20% moisture.

Loved the way it heated but the creosote was a pain in the butt.

 

[Piker]

If you are using a downdraft gasifier without thermal storage, you will likely need more than a brush to clean the heat exchanger... especially if you were burning wood with a high moisture content. A scraper is more in line with what you will need to get them clean. Some large washers placed a couple inches apart on a piece of allthread will make a nice scraper. Offset them a little to get a tight fit in the tube and scrape away. If you don't get the tubes clean, your efficiency will be reduced quite a bit. You should not see more than about 400* stack temps on your econoburn during a high fire burn, 300* in low fire... if they are much higher than that, your tubes need some more tlc.


cheers

 

[Gooserider]

Not a clue here in regards to storage, what type do you mean, where can it be obtained, must a dealer install it, I can soldier myself did my new addition. And no leaks, HA HA.

Thermal storage is just what the name implies, any sort of thing that can store a large amount of heat for a while, and give it back later. While all sorts of things have been used, what nearly all the folks here use and what seems to work best is large amounts of water - typically around 1,000 gallons or so in a very well insulated tank. Essentially you run your boiler at maximum fire for the entire burn cycle, or close to it, and any heat produced in excess of your load gets dumped into the storage tank, warming it up. You then let the boiler go out and pull all your heating load back out of the storage until the storage cools down, and you build another fire in the boiler and repeat the cycle. (this can be anywhere from a few hours to a few days, depending on season, load, storage size, etc) If you look at some of the stickies at the top of the boiler room page, and go through many of the threads you can get more details on just how it works, and how to build it, which can certainly be done yourself. Minor note, if you are in MA, there can be issues with trying to build a pressurized storage system thanks to our state's stupid rules on the subject, it may be simpler to build non-pressurized storage from a legal standpoint.

Also, I was told by the Econoburn customer service staff that my problem may be just that it is on slow burn way to long, Ok so then how do I adjust it.

As mentioned earlier - the adjustment is to build smaller, hotter fires - put less wood in the unit at a time... You want the boiler to be putting out just enough heat to feed your demands unless you have storage - the boiler needs to run in gasification mode as much of the time as possible, when it is doing so, you will be burning clean and efficiently, but any time the boiler goes into idle you are just building creosote... If you burn at full blast most of the time, any creosote that does get made will tend to burn off, but not if you are idling and building it up faster than it can be burnt off. The big advantage of storage is that it in effect gives you a huge demand load that will keep you running full blast for the entire burn.

[/quote]Also have yours had yours serviced at all, My tech came here and I gave him the directions and he was Pissed that everyone told him hat the tube cleaning rods just slide right out and then slide right back in again after you clean them with a 2 inch. Brush. UMM NOT at all. Opinion please. My tech spent 45 minutes getting them and 30 getting them back in. even after we sprayed them down good with silicone.[/quote]

As mentioned, sounds like you have some major creosote problems, either from wet wood, or over loading the boiler (or both). I've been told you can also have more problems if don't crank on the cleaning lever a couple times between each load of wood. If you are burning cleanly, those tubes stay quite clean and people report that the turbulators go in and out easily - with the service mostly being to verify that all is well... If you have been building creosote, then it builds up in the tubes and will require a lot more of a cleanup job to get the turbulators in and out.

[/quote]Now I am about to fire it up with in the next week or so, in regards to the wood, the directions say burn a 20% moisture wood, not totally dry but just 20% moisture.

Loved the way it heated but the creosote was a pain in the butt.[/quote]
20% is about the wettest wood you should be burning, drier is better, but it can be difficult to get a lot drier than 20% with air drying. This means your wood should be cut, split, stacked and COVERED for at least a year prior to burning, preferably two... You need a moisture meter, and to remember that the outside of a split is not all that important, you need to re-split the round and measure the INSIDE to get a good reading.

Bottom line, smaller fires, drier wood and / or adding storage will cure the creosote problems.

Gooserider