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Asset or Liability?

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by wardk, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. wardk

    wardk Member

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    I'm ging to need a big dolly. P1010074.jpg
    scooby074 and Gasifier like this.

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  2. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I got an oil tank about that size,i want to sell it now as i dont need it anymore and its about 1/4 in thick and in mint condition. I did move it with a backhoe though NOT my Dolly.
  3. I could have my boiler and storage disconnected and loaded on a trailer in less than a day. Probably less. But I'd put a 10k value on it and let the buyers decide if they want to keep it.
  4. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Iv saved about $25,000 over the last 10 years on alternative heat sources. I plan to continue that where ever i move to.
  5. Gasifier

    Gasifier Minister of Fire

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    When you try to cross that bridge, explain to wife that the temperature in every room remains constant at whatever the thermostats are set at. A nice, steady, constant heat. And you can heat your house, garage, and all your hot water for showers, laundry and dishes with wood. Then every year you use that money on something else. Say, a vacation, shopping. !!!
  6. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    She says: "just turn up the oil heat upstairs". I hate when she says that.
    Gasifier likes this.
  7. arngnick

    arngnick Member

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    Mansfield, PA
    I just purchased a Vedolux 50 UB and my wife really wanted a rice coal boiler. I agreed with her that a coal boiler would be a great option but we also have 11 wooded acres and a ton of trees that are on the ground and need to be cleaned up. She even admitted to me that she sometimes enjoys splitting firewood(on her own terms of course) She then brought up the resale value question and I thought the same as most of you(probly not the best system when it comes to resale). I don't think these high end gassers will add much value to a propery. I know whenever I explain my setup to someone they look at me like I have 5 heads and they do not understand. None the less we decided to go with the wod boiler even though we figured the resale value may not be there we will get to take advantage to the abundance of firewood that is waiting to be CSS. :)
  8. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    Payback on my boiler.. even if you included the woodsplitter and chainsaw is in the 3 year range. I built the house to live in, not to sell.

    It's easy enough to tear out if the new owners didn't want to use it. I only made minor changes to the oil boiler controls.. Flip a couple ball valves to make sure there's no ghost flow to storage from the oil boiler running... and it's the same old oil fired house. A BIG oil fired house. I don't think HHO is going back to the 90 cent a gallon range anytime soon.

    JP
    Taylor Sutherland likes this.
  9. arngnick

    arngnick Member

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    Great point JP! I just figured some numbers and mine should pay back in 5 years. I agree we decided to go with the wood boiler because we have an abundance of wood as would the new homeowners if we deicded to sell and we warmed up to the idea of batch burning and using the flexiblity of storage. we will likely be burning year round also. How often do you fire your boiler in the summer?
  10. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    Haven't had it insulated up and boxed in yet during summer.

    I was going every 2.5 days or so.. but I still had exposed valves and bits of copper letting a lot of heat out.

    We'll see. I'm hoping for 3 to 4 days.. as I go away for a week at a time for work.. so the wife could do just one burn a week while I'm gone. We're changing habits a bit and doing dishes and laundry a bit more during boiler burns. I think this would make a bigger difference in summer. When that DHW zone calls.. it's a big hit to the storage.

    JP
  11. tmudd

    tmudd Member

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    Loc:
    Central Missouri Ranch
    Good equipment is good equipment, whether you are talking about machinery, furnaces,boilers ,cars,or any other mechnaical appliances. High quality speaks for itself. Most people forget about the price on a product that is servicable for over 25 yrs. Anyone who appreciates mechanical things will automatically know the value of a well designed gassification boiler heating system. Where I live in the river hills of mid Missouri, everyone is hung up on forced air equipment for the A.C. side of things. heating seem to be secondary. Alot of people actually put in electric furnaces if you can believe that. Our boiler systems here typically reflect a substantial cost and effort only to be made more expensive with the forced air airconditioning side of things. It takes the right person to appreciate what it is your selling. Don't be looking for an appraiser to see value in your property. I have been in the custom home bulilding business for 35 years. Most of the houses we build don't appraise out at what the banks want to loan, so the people have to pony up more down payment or collateral to get what they want. If you make wise long term investments in your real estate it will pay off. With the new insulation and energy efficient products available to us,. expensive choices like vertical well ground source heat pumps make more sense. Even though they have a substantial up front cost, there is a paypack on the horizon, just like substituting oil, or propane for wood.The advantage of the wood systems are that they are more forgiving, just throw on a little more BTU's.We have this process hear called fair market value appraisals -where the properties are compared to similiar properties as near by and as similiar to your own. this allows the appraisers to justify the price. There is no difference to the appraiser, between real masonry, and stick on fake, no difference between real wood and fake wood. They don't take alot of important mechanical things into consideration at all. Ceiling fans are even noted in an appraiser's report.On the appraisal sheet it is noted under HVAC woodas one choice, conventional as another. You might well as appraise blenders, and trash compactors. The whole process limits creativity in building and rewards doing it like everyone else.It seems to encourage speculative building in our area. One appraiser told me I would really have something "if the house and property were a little closer to town" - She missed the whole point of living in the country. That is what I love most about this site. It encourages the best in all of our systems, ablities, materials . Each person can let the economics decide for themselves.

    TLM
    scooby074 likes this.
  12. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    TLM.. I couldn't agree more! My appraiser tried to tell me they were doing me a favor by comparing me to smaller, cookie cutter houses next to the golf course. I just snorted and told them they couldn't GIVE me one of those houses.

    Like I said.. built it to live in. Not appraise

    JP
  13. peakbagger

    peakbagger Minister of Fire

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    There are appraisers that specialize in energy efficient homes. They are rare and given that most banks have a contract with a local firm to crank out low cost appraisals, the bank is most likely not going to go with a more qualified and more expensive third party appraisal
  14. wardk

    wardk Member

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    It may be different in the US but in Canada usually the home buyer pays for the appraisal at the banks request as proof that the home is worth the amount of the mortgage. I was a realtor and the way it worked an appraiser would be hired and told the selling price of the home and surprise that would be the appraised value, all was good the sale would complete.
  15. bupalos

    bupalos Member

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    Loc:
    ne ohio
    If I was really thinking about "adding value" I would do things that make the system easier to use and more flexible, to expand the number of people that might consider it a serious plus. To me that means big storage and multiple zones on independent programable thermostats. I'd also DOCUMENT the yearly savings versus oil. While there's really no telling whether the best customer for your house will have the right attitude towards it or not, it remains something of a gamble. But I think it's at least you can argue that it is a pretty good gamble, since energy prices and commodity prices and the percentage of the the population that is environmentally aware are all likely to continue rising.
  16. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    I did a valuation. The broker tell me that the wood system was no good.
    Everyone wants ground heat pumps here :-(
  17. STIHLY DAN

    STIHLY DAN Minister of Fire

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    Do to the crappy economy of the last 10 years. Many people are learning the value of saving fuel of any sort. There are more people burning wood out of necessity now. People who had inserts in there houses that they bought, but never used, are using them full time now. A lot of them are the so called profesional business man.
  18. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Ground heat pumps are no magic bullet, friend of mine spent a fortune on one only to achieve minimal if any savings. The local contractor/installer encourage people to super insulate before installation so how much of the savings are coming from the ground pump and how much from the insulation upgrade.
  19. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    But they start to get really good COP in the pumps now. Check this test
    http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://energimyndigheten.se/sv/Hushall/Testerresultat/Testresultat/Bergvarmepumpar-november-2012/
  20. wardk

    wardk Member

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    I looked at geo thermal ,it was a little over 30k est installed but when I looked at the specs. the unit requires a 240v 30amp power source I passed. Like running a clothes dryer 24/7.
  21. scooby074

    scooby074 Feeling the Heat

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    Nova Scotia
    It would take a special buyer to appreciate the work, value and future savings of a wood boiler. Same goes for a high end wood stove. Most people just wont get it. And they wont want to feed it. People are lazy and set in their ways. When people hear wood fired water boiler around here their mind immediately goes to things like Wood Doctors, and the smoke they make.. Mention gasification and their eyes glaze over, "Gasoline", they say, Why would I heat with gasoline, its too expensive!!" :)


    If (when) I build my new place the wood boiler will be in a separate building I think. And it will be designed with future removal (either for replacement or sale of the home) in mind. Id likely offer it with the home, like say $10000, and if they wont buy, then out it comes. I'd probably build with electric baseboard as backup anyways, so if the purchasers didnt want the boiler, they'd be left with an electric heated home.

    Where I think things change is "Solar". Either solar water heating or PV electric generation. Most people are familiar with solar so that would help the value. Plus most of us are tired of the local hydro raising rates and would like to stick it to them in some way;) On top of that, and most importantly, solar doesnt require near the effort of a wood boiler.

    People will also understand the value of and pay for Geothermal heat pumps.Established "push button" technology that people have heard of.

    Now, if we were in Europe and had bulk pellet delivery like they do, just like oil delivery where it's no muss - no fuss, then I could see a boiler being a selling point. It comes back to most people being lazy and want nothing to do with the labour involved. They want "push button". Money savings are just a bonus.

    Same goes for nicely piled rows of dry CSS wood. 99% of the buyers would see no value in that. Remember, most people just use the stove for ambiance and will burn wood that was fresh cut last weekend :p

    Of course there are exceptions to these rules and that would be the 1 in 100 buyer you'd need to find to get your investment out.
  22. Tdiguy

    Tdiguy New Member

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    I have been through the wonderful process of re-financing my house recently. There are very few things that affect the "hard" value of a house. Things like # of bedrooms the square footage and the general condition of the house. To a lesser extent i have seen it on 1 estimate where they noted how old the shigles seemed to be but there was no $ figure near that.
    Of course the soft value is very subjective. This is where things like alternative heating and new roofs and other similar things come into the picture. Myself i prefer the wood pellet boilers. If i had it to do again i would buy a wood pellet boiler that was meant to be put outside and holds at least 400lbs of pellets in the hopper. Would have made installation much easier.

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