At 34f outside my draft is ..........

[ckarotka]

Horrible. No secondaries fight to get to temps. Right now it's 16' from the top of the stove. Should I extend the flue one section of pipe? 3'. Would that be enough? The flue right now is two feet higher than the ridge of the house. But I have large pines all around and the neighbor has a large walnut close to the house also. Tried an open window still no secondaries or big gain. Even at 19F I have to leave the primary open more to hold temps with minimal secondaries.

Thanks Charlie,

ps. Wood is dry double checked 18-24%

 

[tutu_sue]

I thought dry was < 20%?

 

[LLigetfa]

ps. Wood is marginal double checked 18-24%

I fixed it for you.

Is this an inside or outside flue? SS or masonry? Elbows/Tees?

 

[begreen]

When was the flue and cap last checked for clogging? It may be time for a cleaning. Also, did the connector pipe get changed to double-wall?

 

[ckarotka]

Straight up, no tees or 90's. Interior chimney. Cap and pipe were just checked when I switched stoves about two weeks ago and were fine. Since the warm up I noticed it seemed very sluggish. Oh single wall inside. The same wood four days ago would burn fine at 19f outside.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

That is difficult with only a 15 degree temperature difference you should still get good draft. With it affecting that much with that little temperature difference one definitely has to look at the fuel. Yet, those trees can definitely cause some concerns, especially if there is much wind. However, we have some tall oaks and maples right around the house and we still get good draft even with a shorter chimney.

 

[savageactor7]

Well ckarotka if you're saying that the draft increases if you open the primary more...then just open the primary more. Don't make it harder than it is. To burn wood efficiently/safely/correctly you have to make many accommodations that's why our grandparents were so happy to get oil and natural gas because now they could just set the thermostat and be done with it.

Or did I misunderstand the post?

The only other recommendation I can think of is to use smaller splits to give you more flames.

 

[jcims]

Would an outside air kit help with draft? I had a little bit of the opposite problem after installing one on mine...keeping the air down enough. I basically operate with it almost completely shut down now.

Maybe crack a nearby window for 20 mins or so and see if things improve.

 

[LLigetfa]

It's likely a combination of marginal wood, short stack, barometric pressure, outdoor temp, and indoor pressure. Keep in mind that more primary air can result in less secondary combustion but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. It could be that there is near complete combustion with the primary air so there's nothing to light off at the secondaries. The zipper (doghouse) air is probably a bit weak because if the confluence of factors allowing the primary combustion to be more complete.

I think secondary combustion is a bit like teenage sex. Everyone talks about do it. Everyone thinks everyone else is doing it better. It's hyped up to be more than it is.

 

[ckarotka]

It's likely a combination of marginal wood, short stack, barometric pressure, outdoor temp, and indoor pressure. Keep in mind that more primary air can result in less secondary combustion but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. It could be that there is near complete combustion with the primary air so there's nothing to light off at the secondaries. The zipper (doghouse) air is probably a bit weak because if the confluence of factors allowing the primary combustion to be more complete.

I think secondary combustion is a bit like teenage sex. Everyone talks about do it. Everyone thinks everyone else is doing it better. It's hyped up to be more than it is.

This is what I was looking for. Last night it took longer but not too long to get to cruising at 550 but it still got there with no secondaries but no smoke also. I'm just having a hard time understanding secondaries after what I've watched on YouTube. I'm not complaining I just want to keep my system clean and of course burn the best I can. As long as I have no smoke and a hot stove I guess the fire will look how it wants to. I put too much concern into getting those beautiful secondaries.

 

[begreen]

For draft improvement I would change out the single wall to double-wall. However, as a temporary test, you could stick a 6" x 36" piece of galvanized duct or single-wall stove pipe in the top of the class A and try that for a (not too windy) day or two.

I'm curious about the burn cycle. How are you regulating the air during various stages of the burn?

 

[ckarotka]

BeGreen,

I normally allow her to get hot and get her to criuse around 550-575 stove top with the flue at 300 with an IR gun 18" up from the collar. I only adjust the air when it sarts to run alittle to hot around 600 (i can heat the house with 550, plus I would like to stretch the burn time). It does settle in with a few adjustments. Once it settles I try not to touch so I can see how my overnight burns go when I'm not watching it. Everything was fine until this warm up. Our normal temps for this time of year are in the high 20's to mid 30's. We really don't get that cold to too long. We get the cold snaps but normals are not nearly as cold as some of you guys. Right now they are saying mid 30's for the next 5-7 days. Since my daily average is normally higher I wanted to make sure I wasn't hurting the system even though I do check the pipe often, for me it's easy 5/12 pitch ranch. I don't get any smoke in the house or smell either and the glass stays real clean too at the current outdoor temps. I'm gonna check the pipe on Sunday morning, if it's clean like normal I think I will leave well enough alone.

I'm probably fussing over nothing, when you start to learn more you want to burn better. I felt like I was doing something wrong because I don't get the pretty secondaries, but like LLigetfa said not everyone is getting it either.

 

[begreen]

So, sometimes you don't reduce the air at all? If that is the case, with the next reload, try reducing it 50% once the fresh feed of wood is fully aflame and stove top is over 450 °F. Then wait about 5-10 minutes to let the fire build back up. Secondaries kick in when the primary air is reduced.

Like Llig said seems like a case of so-so wood and lower draft.

 

[ckarotka]

I'm sorry I should have been more clear. When she's cruising the primary is about 3/4 Of the way closed. About a half inch of travel left give or take some.

 

[begreen]

Ah, that's what I was wondering about. By then I would expect to see a decent light show for a little bit. If it's safe to get up on the roof, pull the cap and try jamming in a 3' piece of single wall pipe in the flue to see if that makes a noticeable difference.

 

[LLigetfa]

The more draft you have, the more effect the zipper air has. Generally speaking, the zipper air produces the dirtiest burn but the secondaries usually take care of it if your internal temp is high enough. If your internal temp isn't high enough the unburnt fuel goes up the flue. If the internal temps are high enough and there is not too much zipper air, you can have fairly complete combustion with the primary air to not have much secondary burn.

One can usually induce more secondary combustion by reducing primary air but if the internal temp drops, it cannot be sustained. People will artificially induce spectacular secondary combustion to make impressive YouTube videos but those often cannot be sustained for long. That's the teen sex I was talking about.

On most stoves the primary air is the airwash that blows down the glass. Since it's heated air, it is made to go in an unnatural direction and with poor draft, it might not reach the coals like the zipper air does. The zipper air is not downdrafted and not heated to the same degree so it has no problem to reach the coals but creates less complete combustion.