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Attack 45 profi chimney problems

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by HD08Rocker, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    I recently purchased an attack 45 profi gassification furnace online. It is installed and when I fire it up I have creosote and water that runs down my chimney and onto my floor and into my fan. I am new to burning wood and do not understand what my problem is. I understand that I need to get my stack temp up. But In order to get the stack temp up I need to run my fan constantly. While the fan is running the fluid is under control. But as soon as the fan stops and the stack temp begins to cool I start to get a constant run of fluid. I dont know what to do to cure this problem but I cannot run my furnace. Please Please Please someone help me. The wood I am burning has been in a garage for 3 years it has to be dry enuff. The customer represenative from new horizons very rudely told me my wood was not dry enuff. I figured after spending 6 grand that I could get some customer support. But so far the customer support is terrible.
    If there is anyone out there that can help me please help!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  2. Clarkbug

    Clarkbug Minister of Fire

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    Welcome to Hearth!

    A few things for you. You will get moisture that comes out of the boiler when you first start using it due to the refractory drying out and the moisture that is probably in my chimney. The first time I started my boiler I also had water running out of it from various places. But just the first time. Is this a constant problem?

    Secondly, just because you have wood in the garage doesnt mean its dry enough. If it was put in there right after splitting, it might still have a lot of moisture if it never saw the sun. You could split some pieces down, and check with a moisture meter. Or bake them for a few hours in the oven to get the moisture gone for sure, and then see how they burn.

    There are a lot of other questions at work here. Do you have return water protection? If you had cold water coming into your boiler, that could cause the flue gasses to condense and create problems for you. Is your chimney bricks or stone or stainless? Outside your house or through the middle?

    Feed us some more info and folks here will try to help.
  3. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    I have burned a couple times. Overnight twice and both times in the morning I have had a bucket of water/creosote, and the spot where the fan is. So much water that the fan would not spin. Just gurgle. I am waiting for a moisture meter to arrive. I ordered one after I was told my wood was still to wet. Hard to believe but possible I guess. I have a danfoss valve installed for my return water. My chimney is metal. the bottom half is single wall up to a transition piece that goes to metylvent ht insulated pipe thru the roof. 3 sections of each pipe. The furnace has its own room that I have just built on.
  4. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    Some things are hard to diagnose over the internet. This might be one of them.

    I can't imagine there being enough water to keep the fan from running - that sounds way too extreme and almost sounds like a water leak of some kind. Where all are you checking temps & what are they? What flue temp are you getting up to, and how & where is it measured? And what kind of wood is it? It does sound like wet wood - does it sizzle when you're getting it going?
  5. laynes69

    laynes69 Minister of Fire

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    What size is your flue? We had an issue like this until we lined with a properly sized insulated stainless liner. The flue gasses were low and the chimney was too large which condensed the gasses. In return we had over a gallon of liquid a day from it. Just a nasty mess!
  6. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    First off WELCOME, and glad to see there is someone else w/ an Attack........

    Ok, I'm going to assume that you have a 6" flue like it's supposed to have. This is just my first season with the Attack, so my help may be limited, however I'm a life-long wood burner, and the Attack replaced a wood boiler as the only heat source in my house.

    As Maple said, what are your flue temps, they should be in the 250F+ reigion during a burn, I had a long thread on this awhile back. I get the fire going with the bypass damper open (lever out) and let the heat (and smoke) go up the chimney till the temp reading is at least 350-400F, this takes less than 10 min. with the upper door open just enough to allow the bypass to be open, this heats the flue up quickly. The flue temp is measured by pushing the ok button and the start button twice until a number appears with a little square in the upper right, this is the flue temp before the fan. About 30 min into a burn this reading should be in the 225F+ range and seems to stay in the 275-300 range with a good secondary burn. My boiler DID NOT run like this until I has 6 or so fires in it. I was very discouraged and at times wished my old NewYorker WC130 was still there, I did not however get any water coming down my flue like you have, only condensation in the upper and lower chambers at first. The refractory may still be wet from moisture in the air and casting.

    Can you get some known dry wood and try it? This may help to get things dried out and hot, the water running down your flue is not normal, and I have a very similar setup as you, only I have 4' single wall then 16' of interior 6" Class A. Keep us posted with results and questions, all so we can ask you more! :)

    TS
    HD08Rocker likes this.
  7. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I just re-read your OP. The fan should be running all most of the time for a gasser to work properly. If it's not running due to the boiler being up to temp (idle) you need to do something with that heat, either storage, or dump zone set up to come on and put that heat in the house and roast ya! This is why most guys on here have 500-1000 gallons of storage. You can run the boiler flat out as it was made to do and have no idle time.

    Let us know of your findings! Oh and pics are always good too! You can see my install and many others on the boiler pics thread. http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/a-few-pictures-of-our-boiler-systems.75006/

    TS
  8. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    OK so I have been reading and re reading. I will be trying again tomorrow. My question is?? The manual says to start the fire with the lever pushed in and locked. But you are saying to start the fire with the handle out. I will try your way. How do I know when the gasification is working correctly? I am thinking I will know. And I am sure it has not been proper yet. About storage I do not have any right now but it sounds like I need to put it on my wish list. Is there a way to make storage or do you have to bu storage tanks? You talk about a dump zone. I am not sure what this means. I have connected into the existing boiler lines of my house and I think I only have 1 zone. if I understand u correctly idle time is not great. Do you set the flue gas temp with the aditional thermostat knob (the little knob on the left of the control panel)
  9. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    Looks like Taylor will have to take the lead on this one. :)

    I don't know about handle in or out on your particular boiler - but the basics of I think any gassing boiler is you start & get the fire going with the bypass open. Then it gets closed for gassifying operation. Correspond bypass open & closed with handle in & out (by watching what happens when you move the handle) and you should be able to figure it out. Is the handle not labelled for bypass open or closed?

    And a further note (this is a helpful suggestion, not a put down) - if an installer doesn't know what a dump zone is, I don't think I'd want him working on my system. If you post up where you live, you might get some real-person help from someone on here who is close. Failing that, I would get some pro help in for a look see & advisory. We don't know how you have anything hooked up so can only assume everything about your install might be suspect - sitting where we are, as it sounds like you are uncertain about some basics. I'd even advise against burning in it at all until you know for sure it's hooked up right - just take a look at the recent 'boiler overheat' thread on here to see what could happen when things don't go right. It can get downright dangerous if things go bad. Take pictures of all of your hook up & post them - that should help considerably.
  10. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Yes some pics are a great help. This was my thread when I was not getting anything to work as intended:http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/good-gasification.91847/

    A dump sone over-rides the thermostat when the boiler is hot, "dumping" the heat into the house to avoid idle and condensation, this is a hard fact about burning wood in a boiler, some people never get over this hurdle and burn inefficiently their whole lives smouldering away.

    The flue thermostat is the little know on the left. I set mine at 200F, this tells the boiler that when the flue falls below this temp the fire is out and it turns the fan off. The manual is rough at best, even to me an expierenced wood burned and industrial control technician. I light the fire with the bypass open with some good dry kindling (usually framing lumber cut-offs from job sites). This takes off fast and heats things up quickly, I fill the upper chaimber with good chord wood, close and lock the bypass with the upper door still open a crack. You should head a good rumble when you do this, like a large oil burner rumble. After it seems to be going well, I close and latch the upper door and watch the flue temp, it should stay above 250F.

    Try this and let up know.............take some pictures of the install, the upper and lower chaimbers, and what what type of wood your burning.

    TS
  11. kjahnz

    kjahnz Member

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    hdo8rocker:
    Are you useing storage in your heating system?

    taylor:
    I was wondering if you are using heated concrete for your storage?
  12. Have u been able to open the lower door and see the gassification flame? If not what are your air settings at?
  13. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I PM'd you so not to hyjack this thread.

    TS
  14. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    I purchased the furnace online. I am a pretty good DIYer. So I talked to my oil furnace guy and he said he could plumb it in. When the furnace and the install kit arrived he seemed a little puzzled. But he did it according to the scematics that came with the furnace. So I think it is safe. I am running low on money so anything else that needs to be done I am going to have to do. That is why I am asking about a dump zone.
  15. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    Ok Sorry I am new to this whole forum thing. First thanks for all the good input. I am seeing that I need some kind of storage tank, my wood needs to be split finer and be drier. My furnace temp needs to be hotter. I am in the process of trying to download pictures I took with my camera but for some reason one picture is to large to download. As soon as I figure it out I will update.
  16. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    Here are sthe pictures of my furnace. The pex lines run thru my wall into my basement and into the heating lines from my oil furnace.

    Attached Files:

  17. Floydian

    Floydian Feeling the Heat

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    Hey Rocker!

    A few questions:

    What size is that pex? What model Taco pump? Do you know the heat load of your house? Have you verified the moister content of your wood?

    I think Taylor is spot on. You have got to be idling. A lot. And probably with wet wood.

    That pex looks small and your only going to be able to move so many btu's through it if thats the case.

    Hang in there, I am sure the smart folks here can help you get things straightened out.

    Noah
  18. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    Might be the angle or perspective of the picture, but it looks small to me too. Do I see two size reductions after the boiler tappings? I think I do see a return temp mixer though (Danfoss?) - which is good. And I also think it would idle a lot with no storage - try cranking the heat up on the thermostats while it's burning, use the house as storage. Flue gas temps would still help.
  19. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Rocker, when you have a fire what are your flue temps? Also when you have a fire does the boiler get up to 190F fast or never build any temp? The temp is set with the big know on the right, I keep mine at 195F, it is at this temp that the boiler shuts the fan down and goes into "idle", or no burn smolder creosote + condensation (wet wood) factory. The boiler temp will tell us how the flow through that pex is going, putting the pump on the top port and proper sizeing (of pump and pex) may be in order. Keep us posted, that is ALOT of condensate!

    TS
  20. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    No I am not using heated concrete.
  21. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    The concrete question was for Taylor.
  22. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    I have not had a fire for a couple of days. I have been frustrated with my situation. Plus we are having the warmest Nov. I am cleaning out my ashes and water from my fan in preparation for another try. Because of my pex I had my boiler thermostat set at 170. It didnt seem to take that long to build the temp. My flue temps on my last burn were up to 213. But I cant seem to maintain the temp. It peaks and then drops without the fan coming back on unless I maually turn it on. The pex is 1inch and the pump is the pump that was sent with the install kit that I purchased when I bought the furnace. I was afraid that I was going to have to change the pex after finding out that is only good for 180 degrees. I was unaware of that fact prior to the installation. What size line should be run? I am still waiting for for the meter to measure the moisture content of my wood. The room the furnace is in in an exterior unheated room without heated concrete.
    Thanks for your advice. I really did not think there was going to be this much to the whole wood furnace thing.
  23. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    I think you have more than one possible issue. First is how dry your wood is - sounds like you're on your way to find that out. After that, your near boiler piping needs to be able to handle temps in the boiling point range. Copper or black iron. If you try to run it and keep your temps from going over 170, it will be constantly shutting itself down. Then I think the boiler is not even getting up to speed before it's shut down because the heat isn't getting away from it fast enough. I would do my piping the same size as the boiler tapping - I'm not sure how big it is, but if it's bigger than 1-1/4, you could likely reduce to 1-1/4. I think 1" is too small. But that also depends on how fast & how much your heat load can dissipate or absorb the heat. We don't know much if anything about your heating distribution system or what happens to the hot water between the time it leaves the boiler until it comes back - you may have limitations there that will prevent the boiler from getting up to speed. Storage can be DIY and not that expensive (relatively speaking) if you can find some used propane tanks at a salvage yard. If you can't do storage, well you need some place for the heat to go (turn the thermostats up in the house?) and you need to get it there quick enough to slow the boiler from shutting itself down too soon (bigger pipe?). But storage should be in your future. And also some thermometers at various places so you can tell what's going on better.
  24. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Any news HD08Rocker?

    TS
  25. HD08Rocker

    HD08Rocker New Member

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    I got my moisture meter today and tested my wood pile. I am getting readings of 13% and less. How accurate are the digital meters? The meter I bought is a dusiec model md812. I am struggling with what to do next? My guess is not to bother starting another fire if I need to run my boiler temp over 180. If i am going to be safe I need to get some metal pipe instead of the pecs. How small do you split your wood?

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