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Posted By jdemaris,
Jan 8, 2009 at 6:03 PM
I are once was too! :long:
I dunno what to think...sure I want to stop the emerald ash borer but over time I've seen Law enforcement officials corrupted into revenue generators with guns.
And DEC who will most likely be enforcing this law has become the our resident black shirt East European police force. Because they enforce fish and game laws they don't need warrants to search vehicles/garages/houses. Not that I have a hard on for DEC, all LE officers either follow orders or get less choice assignments ...but living out in the country I've heard many stories about DEC.
Without the law there would be chaos but when it comes to elected officials we've all seen/heard the lies, double standards, hypocrisy etc. In the end... all law enforcement officials are political strong arms...they do/enforce what elected officials want. And what do our elected political trash need most...revenue and where do you think they will get it.
I can see a lot of...'the wood isn't baked enough so explain it to the judge' disputes down the road...but I hope I'm wrong. Hopefully this will make a dent in pests like the ash borer's advance.
My cousin has a kiln and I have been talking with him for a year about drying wood for me so I am familiar with the regs.
Tha USDA literally puts their stamp on the wood ( usually a preprinted label in the wood packaging)and paper work including a bill of lading, USDA approval, and a kiln log (info such as temp and time in kiln, # of temp sensors and location in batch, date and time of drying) is required and presented to buyer (Home Depot, Walmart ,etc) or law enforcement by the truck driver. A USDA auditor pays surprise visits to these kiln operators quite frequently.
The ICC and PUC already have a handle on the law and are enforcing it now. There is no question as to weather it is dry enough or not. The paperwork will say it is dry and no paperwork will say it isn't dry.
Needless to say this end of the wood biz and the extra hassel (regulations ) has not intrigued me enough to jump in.
I think burning the wood is a pretty good deterrent to continued infestation. If you think about it wood burning is the only solution with guaranteed positive results. Furthermore adherence to wood lot/forestry management designed to arrest and remove and incinerate infestations may be the best cure for energy ills and terminating the infestation. But that's probably too grand of a scheme. Buy a gasifying auto today and save the forest. Sounds bazaar doesn't it? Hey...fill 'er up with some of that emerald beetle beech and don't give me any of that knock-off junk either! How far do you think that will go?
To your next fill up!
Wood that I think will rot is usually either kiln fuel or is composted. I have used hugelkultur, as well as just piling. Currently I am throwing nasty punky stuff on a patch of poison ivy- smothers the stuff, and turns into awesome soil.
I wonder how effective irradiation might be?
DEC has been way more aggressive about many things for a year now. DEC, NPS, yada, yada, yada. What's sad is the people give them power, then we can't find a way to take it back when they get stupid
NYS-it figures!! Next thing we know is that they will be damanding that all BC Bud being exported down there must be "kiln dried" as well? And must have a certain level of toxicity to keep all those pundits on their "regular high"? :roll:
Kiln dry the firewood....'certifi it ?
What a joke.
The 'invasive bugs' are already here. Did ANYONE think, maybe- just maybe, they can fly ? (I guess not)
Poor bugs, now they are going to have to hitchhike under Forest Service truck bumpers, or move into Albany to eat the trees downtown.
Yea- I can see the logic of slash-n-burn all the trees to kill the bugs- not.
(They get ultra-low-frequency warnings weeks in advance and move out before burn day- silly rangers, kix are for twids.)
Won't be long before none of us will be able to 'travel' more than 50 miles...without 'the permit and an inspection'.
Just another Liberity Grab.
The Bugs will still be here, we and the 'powers' will be long gone.
Ok well what are the tree sevice company's going to do ? How will it effect them. What are they going to do do with the firewood length
Logs they cut up on the customers property, leave it ? Or wait on site kiln drying ? Will they be able still to take it to recycle centers for mulching ?
This is a complete Joke ! They will never be able to eradicate all those bugs. Millions and millinos are born every year. Waste of Money here we come !
I know the baking will kill any bugs in the wood, but can't the wood be reinfested after being dried? I know they go for moist wood first, but I have had seasoned woodpiles get powderpost beetles pretty bad. I see the beetles on the wood in the spring or early summer, then around late summer I hear the crunching noise. The wood I am burning now has holes in it with fine powder (saw dust) falling out. One things for sure, those bastards won't reemerge come spring. They'll be toast!
Here now behave yourself! Are you trying to turn our politicians into neurotics? :ahhh:
I Live in Pa and the state has outlawed transporting fire wood into the state parks. you must collect dead falls around the park or purchase it within the park from a vendor. this is because of the Emerld Ash Bore.
ridiculous because (as summed up by others):
It can never be enforced completely. There will always be a significant number of people who slip by. Its impossible to enforce.
Bugs will move on their own anyhow. Wings, legs, wind. Do they think they only move by transported logs.
Just more money and more corruption. Just another attack on our liberties. We are moving toward a less free country everyday.
Corruption will abound.
I dont know what the answer is but this is not it.
By the way. My apologies for going off topic. Just wanted to add a funny little story. We have been teaching the kids words from foreign languages such as Spanish, Russian, French, Japanese, Mandarin on a daily basis just simply to expose them and make them more well rounded. The teacher told me this story when I went to pick them up. My 5 year old son misplaced his snow-pants at school the other day. When the teacher asked him what he had to say for himself after losing his snowpants He exclaimed. "Adios Pantelones" She got a big laugh. Made me think of you AP when she told me. I think I'm in trouble. Hugs and kisses.
My neighbor got stopped by the State Police two weeks ago. They wanted to know where he got the wood and where it was going.
I agree with y'all on the reason being disease control. And agree that it's a good cause for control. Whether or not there are ulterior motives by local government beyond simple bug/disease control is really a silly paranoid attempt of second guessing. Wood burning beyond local is not economical in the long run and defeats the whole self-sufficiency ethic most woodburners adhere to. My advice to those to feel paranoid about these things is to self educate themselves. Find out WHY these state laws were enacted. Get names & #'s of State Reps, Forestry, Disease Control centers, Directors, etc. and CALL them. Get proactive & locally politically involved . . . . or shut-up and move further out into the boonies. But before you do . . . . research the law of the land you intend to move to. So ya don't be belly aching later !
Not all agree (I hope) with your judgement on the matter, nor do you have the authority to shut-up anybody.
I've lived in the "boonies" three times in my life, going on 60 years now. Problem is . . they don't stay boonies. They fill up, usually with city peope who at first like the area for its rural qualities . . . and then . . .can't wait to change it . . until it differs little from the place they moved from.
As to anyone who has concerns over certain regulations automatically being paroid according you you ?? Give me a break. We have too many laws already that could be enforced - and are not.
This one with the firewood? I doubt even with altruist intentions it can be sucessfully enforced. Like I said earlier, it's pretty damn hard to prove a negative. Yet, the law would need a way of legal wood - to be verified to be legal. Don't give me this paranoid crap. To be paranoid, my concerns would be completely unfounded. They are not, and I could give a long list of rediculous laws and programs that have accomplished nothing useful, yet take away several freedoms and/or money out of our wallets.
Thats ridiculous, i can see it now the wood Police !
You go girl... put those whining libertarians in their place.
Yeah sure, words put together to sound good - are just what we need.
Fact is - many people DO search "the law of the land" before moving to it. Then, the law or laws change - and those laws are often written by clueless governement bureaucrats.
As far as getting "proactive." Yeah, another "meaningful" and . . . for the most part, useless statement. We've got entire communites in my area joined togeher trying to stop the state of New York, the Adirondack Park Agency, and New York City - from imposing their regulatory desires on those living in far-off rural areas. In fact, right now, most of the counties have joined together in a class-action law-suit against the APA, and it will probably be futile.
I'm 200 miles from New York City, yet there are New York City "water police" here, trying to stop people from cutting trees, moving dirt, etc. if they feel it might affect the water-shed. New York City gets all its water from distant reservoirs in our area, delivered by long pipe-lines.
On the subject of bugs in wood, yes it's serious problem that might of been put-off a while if something had been done at the outset. Now, it's too late. Creating laws for certifying damp or dry wood are going to affect more than just firewood also. I assume green framing lumber and wide-boards will also be subject, and it's a common forest product in my area (mostly white pine, red pine, and hemlock). We have many small saw mills. I'll add that green framing lumber and wide-boards often travels much further than 50 miles. The great powers-at-be already tried to enact a law that required all locally sawed lumber to be graded and stamped with a State inspector present. What happened? Many mills were going to shut down, and the State backed off - at least for awhile. I'll add that having some blow-hard State inspector making a presence at a saw mill does not guarantee quality. Just wastes more tax dollars.
To write off concerns solely to paranoia is a mix of being childish and clueless at the same time.