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Black Oak, Dogwood drying time?

Post in 'The Wood Shed' started by Woody Stover, Mar 30, 2011.

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  1. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    Tree guys working for the power company were here yesterday and felled two dead trees. I already had permission to drop the trees, but was glad to let them do it since I haven't had a chance to figure out what's wrong with my big saw yet. Wife was thrilled to get a half-load of free mulch, too. :coolsmile:
    They dropped a Red Oak, and what I'm pretty sure is a Black Oak (it's been dead a while but may still have the yellow/orange inner bark, to confirm.)
    Anyway, I split some green Shingle Oak small in June and have been pleasantly surprised with how dry it is now...no sizzle, all steak. I know the Red is better after two years, but what about this Black? Will it dry quickly, like the Shingle did? Black's been dead several years. The ends of the cut Black look just like Red, so it may be slow-drying like Red...hope not. I'd love to have some Oak to burn this fall instead of only Ash.

    And what about Dogwood? Most of the stuff I'll be taking will be dead, or mostly dead. I burned some standing dead this year and had pretty good luck with it; A little moist but not bad. Is Dogwood considered a one-year seasoning wood?

    Thanks for sharing any hands-on experience with drying these woods!

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  2. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Black oak aka pin! couple years. Dogwood have no clue its all so small I pass on it.
  3. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    OK, I'll keep looking for something else to stack in my breeziest spot in hopes of getting a one-summer cure. Maybe that BLT is dead... :cheese:
    Dogwood here can get upwards of 8" diameter, so I'll mess with it just to have a different high-BTU wood on hand.
  4. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Dont get me wrong dogwood is "Awesome firewood"....Just do not know dry time on it
  5. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    We have lots of Black Oak around here. The wood seems basically the same as Red Oak, so I assume it dries the same. Pin Oak tends to be a little stringier, maybe just because Pin Oaks tend to have more branches than Black and far more than Red Oaks, meaning lots of knots.

    I haven't burned Dogwood, but I know it is used for things like tool handles, so I guess that means it is pretty hard and should be good firewood. I don't know how long it will take to season.
  6. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Ok pin and black oak are the same-thing? Pretty sure loggers changed the name in the south to black oak?
  7. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    Pin Oak and Black Oak are two different species - Quercus palustis and Quercus velutina. Pin Oak can be recognized by the droopy lower branches which tend to hang down and deply lobed leaves. Black Oak is similar but doesn't have the downward-hanging branches on most trees. The acorns are also different, with Pin Oak having very small acorns. Pin Oak is common in wet places and a commonly planted tree. Black Oak tends to grow in dry places and I have not seen it planted very much. Maybe loggers lump them together because the wood is very similar, I don't know.
  8. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Could be..I know that hackberry is done that way. I cant see any difference in grain with black or pin. Big wide grain.
  9. Adios Pantalones

    Adios Pantalones Minister of Fire

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    Black oak is a red oak. 2 yrs after split/stacked.
  10. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    I've got The Audubon Society "Field Guide to North American Trees-Eastern Region." The index has the name of the tree, and then some of the nicknames in quotes. One of the nicknames for Pin Oak is "Black." To confuse matters more, there's also a Northern Pin Oak (but it's not in our area, Jay.) Black has a wide range, similar to Red.


    That was the thing that got me curious about the ID of the tree several years ago; It had these jumbo acorns.


    One of the comments they made about Black (and several other Oaks) was that it is sold as Red Oak. I kinda figured I wouldn't hit a bonanza of quick-dry Oak, like I did with the bit of Shingle Oak I got from trimming a 12" branch that was overhanging the house.

    Soooo...I cut some of the Black yesterday. The smaller stuff seemed kind of light (standing dead for a few years) so I brought some in to try out. I tested a 4" split and it came in about 18*. I tossed it on about an hour ago. Nothing coming out the ends but it hissed for a while. I'll get some of it split on the small side and retest as the season progresses. Also got a fat White Oak trunk over there that blew down several years ago, so I'll throw that in the mix and see if it'll get dry enough to burn next season. There's a thick layer of punked out sapwood on it. Hmmm, I guess the BTU ratings include sapwood, so maybe the output of heartwood is higher...dunno.
  11. quads

    quads Minister of Fire

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    The black oak here is the same as red oak. I don't know what pin oak is because I have never seen one.
  12. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like we have the same conclusion on it....lol I know I can not tell any difference in wood grain on pin vs whats called black. There are very big swooping grain.
  13. quads

    quads Minister of Fire

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    Backwoods posted a picture of a dead tree a couple weeks ago. It looked like a dead white pine to me with all the limbs on it, but he said it was a pin oak. I'm glad the oaks around here don't have that many branches on them or I'd have an awful lot of brush to trip over!
  14. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    There are more difficult (pain in the @ss). Pick your feet up! lol Thats hard to do after a 4-5 hour hard run.
  15. nrford

    nrford Minister of Fire

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    Just so you folks know. There are @ least 56 varieties of Red Oak ie. Red, Black,Pin, Pink, Chestnut, etc. etc. And @ least 34 subspecies of White Oak ie. White, Burr, Swamp, etc. etc. So in the hardwood lumber game it's simply Red or White.
  16. Adios Pantalones

    Adios Pantalones Minister of Fire

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    Exactly- and most of the "reds" act the same for drying, splitting, burning. Some of the white oaks are a bit weird. Water oak, swamp, etc- strange stuff.
  17. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Got to be calling pin or black oak something different.(looks nothing like oak you would find at lowes) The grain is monsterous! Or they are just not using it at all.

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  18. nrford

    nrford Minister of Fire

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    Lumber is sorted by grades, FAS(nearly 100% clear)1 com, 2com, 3 com. Oak is sorted by color also, red,straw,blonde, pink. There is a color difference even among trees of the same subspecies. Black oak is noted for lots of pin knots, a lot of mineral content, and wide color variations. Most of the lumber in the box-stores is 1 com and better and way over priced. At best FAS R. oak is selling wholesale at mills for about $900/M(thousand board feet) Wholesale K/D(kiln-dried) is selling for $1400/M or so. Last time I looked at our HD they wanted about $4/BDft. or $4000/M. If that Board where edged to full width it would be 2 com at best. Kind of guessing because the backside I can't see and it appears to me you are showing us the good face and lumber is graded from the poorest face.
  19. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Not my pic! just saying if I where a normal buyer this is not what they would expect. Just wondering what a company would call this if they where selling it. This Would not pass as RED OAK! This is black oak regardless of what the back side looks like.
  20. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    I've noticed on these Oaks that the heartwood grain is wider than the sapwood grain, as in the pic you posted.
  21. Thistle

    Thistle Minister of Fire

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    Faster growth when young (before the heart turns darker) then slows down with age? sapwood not yet turned to heartwood.
  22. nrford

    nrford Minister of Fire

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    That is Red oak at any hardwood mill I've been at! Been to lots of 'em!!!!
  23. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    I would not feel good about that one, but I am not a big box store kinda guy either. Thats what I was getting at there is other markets other than the million board foot orders. That would not pass...
  24. nrford

    nrford Minister of Fire

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    According to NHLA (National Hardwood Lumber Association) grading rules it would pass as red oak 1 board foot or a million.
  25. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    I know what your saying!
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