Black Walnut, any good to burn?

[snydley]

I noticed about a month or so ago, on my way into town several big trees that someone had cut down in the yard of an old dilapidated house about a mile or so from mine, and I wondered who owned them and what they were going to do with the wood. I found out today that the owner lived in the house next door, so I stopped by on the way home and looked at the wood, and went to his house to ask him about it. He wasn't home though. I looked at the wood, and from what I can determine it looks like most of them are junk black walnut trees. Is that wood any good to burn? I got a little walnut in my last load of wood and it didn't burn worth a crap, but a lot of that wood was not very well seasoned and I don't know if it didn't burn well because it was green, or because walnut doesn't burn well even when seasoned properly.
Anyone here burn walnut? Is it any good to burn? Is it worth my while to go back and see about those trees?
Thanks guys,
Snyde

 

[Mmaul]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

 

[snydley]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

Must be that walnut I got was just too green then. I guess I'll go back and see if the guy wants someone to clean it up. Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

 

[Shane]

They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

And to help fuel a raging forest fire. I think that wood burners should be able to clean up the forests.

 

[Carl]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

Must be that walnut I got was just too green then. I guess I'll go back and see if the guy wants someone to clean it up. Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

They still allow it here but who knows in the future. I wouldn't blame the ban on others unless you know for sure what caused it.

Our DNR doesn't make any money off the cheap dead wood permit and only issues them to try and give back a little to the poor people who really need the free wood. In my opinion if they stop it here someday it will be from the abuse the people who get the permits cause. With no money to begin with (DNR) it is very difficult to justify sending an officer out on a call to check out a complaint of someone misabusing their permit, not to mention the other costs in trying to remedy it either with a citation, court appearance, or other means.

Imagine what it would be like if we all could do whatever we wanted to our National and State forests. They are a very precious commidity in my eyes.

 

[Jfk4th]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

Must be that walnut I got was just too green then. I guess I'll go back and see if the guy wants someone to clean it up. Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

Hey, hey whoa big fella. It is a violation of 190.8 state land rules and regs and ECL Art 9 that says no tree, vegetation, or any material shall be taken off of state property at any time. Only for making a campfire on state property can you use dead and down material (trees). Dead trees are valuable for many wildlife species such as grouse, woodpeckers, nuthatches, many amphibians, reptiles, and other mammals. You have to look at the big picture

Can you tell that I am NYSDEC Police Officer with the Forest Rangers. :smirk: .....No worries, I love taking trees as much as the next guy but not on the state's turf. I have ticketed people for taking dead and alive trees, some people really make a mess of the area when they do this. I am not a tree hugger and so are a lot of NYSDEC's 4,000 employees, I love chopping down a tree as much as the next guy. I am just protecting wildlife and the state's natural resources ;-)

Again no worries my fellow Western New Yorker, I forgive you.

 

[snydley]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

Must be that walnut I got was just too green then. I guess I'll go back and see if the guy wants someone to clean it up. Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

Hey, hey whoa big fella. It is a violation of 190.8 state land rules and regs and ECL Art 9 that says no tree, vegetation, or any material shall be taken off of state property at any time. Only for making a campfire on state property can you use dead and down material (trees). Dead trees are valuable for many wildlife species such as grouse, woodpeckers, nuthatches, many amphibians, reptiles, and other mammals. You have to look at the big picture

Can you tell that I am NYSDEC Police Officer with the Forest Rangers. :smirk: .....No worries, I love taking trees as much as the next guy but not on the state's turf. I have ticketed people for taking dead and alive trees, some people really make a mess of the area when they do this. I am not a tree hugger and so are a lot of NYSDEC's 4,000 employees, I love chopping down a tree as much as the next guy. I am just protecting wildlife and the state's natural resources ;-)

Again no worries my fellow Western New Yorker, I forgive you.

First off, I'm not asking you for forgiveness! So what, you're telling me my regional DEC agent is lying to me? This is what he said to me:

"In the past, on some occasions, we have sold , through local sale procedure, wood that was dead and down or 'left over' from harvesting
operations. We also realize that this dead and down wood is important
habitat for insects and amphibians. Current guidance also directs us to solicit bids when there is interest in the wood products we are selling.
Given the above constraints and staffing levels, sales of firewood(dead and down material or small volume sales for thinning forest stands) are
not being done at this time."

There are logging companies, that have harvested trees, within' the last 5 yrs. that I know of, out of our state forests around here, DEC region 8, Rattlesnake Hill area. Have the laws changed in that amount of time? Let me check, hmm you happened to leave part of the 190.8 rules out. Part g says:
"No person shall deface, remove, destroy or otherwise injure in any manner whatsoever any tree, flower, shrub, fern, moss or other plant, rock, fossil or mineral found or growing on State land, excepting under permit from the Commissioner of Environmental Conservation and the Assistant Commissioner for State Museum and Science Service, pursuant to section 233 of the Education Law as amended by chapter 121 of the Laws of 1958".

So in effect it DOESN'T say "at any time", like you said, it says EXCEPT UNDER PERMIT. I was willing to buy a permit, if the price was in reason. I can understand the animals needing them, BUT I also believe that every so many years they should open things up, UNDER A CONTROLLED MANNER, and allow the cleaning up of some of the dead stuff. If for no other reason then to help prevent forest fires. Maybe something like a deer permit, you buy a permit to harvest DEAD wood only, in a regulated time frame, and then it ends.

 

[snydley]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

Must be that walnut I got was just too green then. I guess I'll go back and see if the guy wants someone to clean it up. Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

They still allow it here but who knows in the future. I wouldn't blame the ban on others unless you know for sure what caused it.

Our DNR doesn't make any money off the cheap dead wood permit and only issues them to try and give back a little to the poor people who really need the free wood. In my opinion if they stop it here someday it will be from the abuse the people who get the permits cause. With no money to begin with (DNR) it is very difficult to justify sending an officer out on a call to check out a complaint of someone misabusing their permit, not to mention the other costs in trying to remedy it either with a citation, court appearance, or other means.

Imagine what it would be like if we all could do whatever we wanted to our National and State forests. They are a very precious commidity in my eyes.

I understand what you're saying and agree with the possible abuse, and the cost of enforcement. I also don't believe we should be able to "do whatever we wanted to our National and State forests", I never said that. But if harvesting goes on by logging companies that will make a profit on the wood, on state lands, WHY shouldn't Joe Schmo, with a paid permit from the state government, be able to go on state lands and harvest DEAD trees under a controlled manner.
I am on disability for a heart condition and live on a very fixed income. That wood could make the difference between me keeping warm in the winter. I have very little extra cash to spend on cord after cord of wood, I guess I'm one of those poor people. Too bad they're not as generous with the forests here in NY. They'd rather sell permits to the logging companies that can make a big buck from the wood.

 

[billb3]

No black walnut around here, so I can't stay on topic.
However.
We used to have forest "thinning" here.
Ranger / forest engineer would go in and mark trees for removal.
Worked great for decades (except for a bit of lack of interest) until the late 70ies. Then there were too many wanting permits even for the 2 cord limit. (and then all the 2 cord limit cheaters)
They wanted the waste branches spread around so they'd rot faster. (piles by more cheaters)
Then the tagged trees started moving closer to the road. (more cheaters)
The program runs again when they have money for personel to play policeman because too many think the rules are not for them. Some years you can get a permit and go in, some years there's no money.
There are permit lotteries those years that they try again.

Forestry and environmental police standing with shotguns watching people with saws isn't quite the romantic outdoors wood cutting experience it was years ago.

 

[Jfk4th]

Burned walnut most of this last winter Very good burning wood leaves large coals though, does seem to want to break up when I stoke the fire to put another load on. But if its wood it will burn if properly seasoned.

Must be that walnut I got was just too green then. I guess I'll go back and see if the guy wants someone to clean it up. Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

Hey, hey whoa big fella. It is a violation of 190.8 state land rules and regs and ECL Art 9 that says no tree, vegetation, or any material shall be taken off of state property at any time. Only for making a campfire on state property can you use dead and down material (trees). Dead trees are valuable for many wildlife species such as grouse, woodpeckers, nuthatches, many amphibians, reptiles, and other mammals. You have to look at the big picture

Can you tell that I am NYSDEC Police Officer with the Forest Rangers. :smirk: .....No worries, I love taking trees as much as the next guy but not on the state's turf. I have ticketed people for taking dead and alive trees, some people really make a mess of the area when they do this. I am not a tree hugger and so are a lot of NYSDEC's 4,000 employees, I love chopping down a tree as much as the next guy. I am just protecting wildlife and the state's natural resources ;-)

Again no worries my fellow Western New Yorker, I forgive you.

First off, I'm not asking you for forgiveness! So what, you're telling me my regional DEC agent is lying to me? This is what he said to me:

"In the past, on some occasions, we have sold , through local sale procedure, wood that was dead and down or 'left over' from harvesting
operations. We also realize that this dead and down wood is important
habitat for insects and amphibians. Current guidance also directs us to solicit bids when there is interest in the wood products we are selling.
Given the above constraints and staffing levels, sales of firewood(dead and down material or small volume sales for thinning forest stands) are
not being done at this time."

There are logging companies, that have harvested trees, within' the last 5 yrs. that I know of, out of our state forests around here, DEC region 8, Rattlesnake Hill area. Have the laws changed in that amount of time? Let me check, hmm you happened to leave part of the 190.8 rules out. Part g says:
"No person shall deface, remove, destroy or otherwise injure in any manner whatsoever any tree, flower, shrub, fern, moss or other plant, rock, fossil or mineral found or growing on State land, excepting under permit from the Commissioner of Environmental Conservation and the Assistant Commissioner for State Museum and Science Service, pursuant to section 233 of the Education Law as amended by chapter 121 of the Laws of 1958".

So in effect it DOESN'T say "at any time", like you said, it says EXCEPT UNDER PERMIT. I was willing to buy a permit, if the price was in reason. I can understand the animals needing them, BUT I also believe that every so many years they should open things up, UNDER A CONTROLLED MANNER, and allow the cleaning up of some of the dead stuff. If for no other reason then to help prevent forest fires. Maybe something like a deer permit, you buy a permit to harvest DEAD wood only, in a regulated time frame, and then it ends.

I was forgiving you because you called the DEC "Damn tree huggers", and all DEC staff are not tree huggers. Again, my job is protecting the state's natural resources and wildlife.

If you want to be technical Rattlesnake Hill is not a state forested area it is a wildlife management area in Region 8. Occasionally , logging companies are given permits but in my counties I have not seen many. Wildlife management areas also follow different guidelines for their management than do state forested areas. I am not a wildlife or forestry manager so I cannot tell you what these area.

I always ask people if that have a permit to take wood when I approach them, in my experience most people do not have permits. Also "under a controlled manner" does happen many times from people that are given permits, they make a mess out of everything and then I get complaints from the public. Maybe someday the DEC will give out more permits but I would not hold your breath, times are changing it looks like.

In my book, it is implied that you could be given a permit to do just about anything on state land, but again most people do not have permits and the DEC is not going to gladly give permits to damage state property. This is why I left that part out of the regs, but good catch on your part. Like you said logging companies have been given permits but again it is by bids and that is a pain.

You might want to contact State parks, they might give out permits to do this

Remember this is a nice group of guys using this forum. If my email sounded mean I apologize for that, this was not my intention.

 

[snydley]

Since I started burning wood this year, I absolutely hate seeing wood on the sitting ground, possibly rotting, when someone,(me :cheese: ), could be using it to heat their home. I emailed the local NYS DEC a few weeks back to see if I could get a permit to go to the state forests and clean up any dead trees I can find. They wrote back that at one time they allowed that, but the policy now is to leave the dead stuff there for the insects and amphibians. Damn tree-huggers, what a waste. :vampire:

Dead trees are valuable for many wildlife species such as grouse, woodpeckers, nuthatches, many amphibians, reptiles, and other mammals. You have to look at the big picture

Can you tell that I am NYSDEC Police Officer. :smirk: .....No worries, I love taking trees as much as the next guy but not on the state's turf. I am just protecting wildlife and the state's natural resources ;-)

Again no worries my fellow Western New Yorker, I forgive you.

First off, I'm not asking you for forgiveness!

There are logging companies, that have harvested trees, within' the last 5 yrs. that I know of, out of our state forests around here, DEC region 8, Rattlesnake Hill area. 190.8 rules out. Part g says:
No person shall deface, remove, destroy etc., any tree, flower, shrub, fern, moss or other plant, rock, fossil or mineral found or growing on State land, excepting under permit
So in effect it DOESN'T say "at any time", like you said, it says EXCEPT UNDER PERMIT. I was willing to buy a permit. I believe that every so many years they should open things up, UNDER A CONTROLLED MANNER, and allow the cleaning up of some of the dead stuff. If for no other reason then to help prevent forest fires. Maybe something like a deer permit, you buy a permit to harvest DEAD wood only, in a regulated time frame, and then it ends.

I was forgiving you because you called the DEC "Damn tree huggers", and all DEC staff are not tree huggers. Again, my job is protecting the state's natural resources and wildlife.

If you want to be technical Rattlesnake Hill is not a state forested area it is a wildlife management area in Region 8. Occasionally , logging companies are given permits but in my counties I have not seen many. Wildlife management areas also follow different guidelines for their management than do state forested areas. I am not a wildlife or forestry manager so I cannot tell you what these area.

I always ask people if that have a permit to take wood when I approach them, in my experience most people do not have permits. Also "under a controlled manner" does happen many times from people that are given permits, they make a mess out of everything and then I get complaints from the public. Maybe someday the DEC will give out more permits but I would not hold your breath, times are changing it looks like.

In my book, it is implied that you could be given a permit to do just about anything on state land, but again most people do not have permits and the DEC is not going to gladly give permits to damage state property. This is why I left that part out of the regs, but good catch on your part. Like you said logging companies have been given permits but again it is by bids and that is a pain.

You might want to contact State parks, they might give out permits to do this

Remember this is a nice group of guys using this forum. If my email sounded mean I apologize for that, this was not my intention.

Sorry about the treehugger thing, it was meant in jest,(hence the smiley), but sometimes it's hard to read a person's tone from something they've written. I also appreciate you, and your job and realize it's importance. I just think that now with fuel oil $3.00 something/gallon maybe some of the dead wood should be allowed to be harvested by people that fall into lower income brackets, within a very controlled situation, to help them financially with their heating bills. I'm not asking to down live trees, just dead ones. As far as Rattlesnake Hill goes, it borders on some state forest lands and maybe I got confused there. I know I've seen logging operations going on in that area in the past when hiking there. I hike there every summer, and if I take anything with me I always bring whatever garbage I may have generated back out of those lands with me and dispose of it properly. Actually I'm a bit of a treehugger myself. Actually, some might say a long-haired, commie pinko, but there's nothing communist about me. :cheese: I can see where people might take advantage and make a mess etc., but it goes back to the question of why does everyone have to suffer because of a few bad apple. I realize enforcement is costly, but maybe slapping a HUGE fine on anyone abusing the privilege would deter abuse. I will check with the State Parks,(if I can find contact info.), and see what their policy is now. Thanks for that tip.
Yes, I realize this is a nice friendly place, and everyone has been very helpful to me, but when you said, "I forgive you", I felt you were being quite condescending and it got my dander up! As a result my writing might have sounded somewhat venomous . Sorry about that, and anyone else that might have taken offense.
Take care, and thanks for the info.,
Snyde

 

[Jfk4th]

Yep, you are correct, emails can be taken the wrong way. I tell this to my supervisors all the time. Sorry on my part too if I sounded a bit nasty or condescending, honestly that was not what I meant. I agree that a few bad apples should not ruin it for the rest of the good guys, but that's how it seems to go with the DEC and other state agencies. Even in my job when somebody screws up, we all seem to suffer. Oh well, c'est la vie I guess

I wish you were a judge in some of my counties, it seems that some of them won't slap a huge fine when "bad guys" steal and cut down live and dead trees. I have seen fines as low as 50 dollars for a truckload, hell that is a price of a face cord, now even cheaper than a face cord. I have even heard from some people it is worth the fine to get a lot of state trees. I hear you when you say we need larger fines. Ever think about being a judge, I like how you feel about this

You are correct again about state forests bordering on Rattlesnake Hill WMA, since it is not my Region I can't remember the name, plus I think I saw some logging going on there a couple of years ago.

I wish I could do something for you as for getting some dead wood off of state land but I am not that "high on the pay grade" if you know what I mean. :coolsmirk:

Are you going to be able to snag those black walnut trees? I Hope you can get it, a good score in my book Snyde

 

[ansehnlich1]

yep, black walnut is good to burn, anybody that wants to dump there black walnut in my field feel free to do so. I got a whole bunch of it, let 'er season good and it'll burn fine.

 

[SlyFerret]

I got a little bit of black walnut this season. It burned great. I burned mostly cherry this year, which burned faster than the walnut. The walnut burned down to a real fine white ash.

I wouldn't ever pass up walnut, especially if the price was cheap to free!

-SF

 

[mtarbert]

Every few years I have a chance to get some walnut for the stove and fins that it burns just fine.However there is a older Gentleman I have known for many years that will come and get walnut wood that is over 10inches round and 24 or so inches long. He takes the "Firewood" back to his shop and rips it on a bandsaw and makes "Boards" out of it. He then uses this stock to make the nicest walnut boxes ...jewelery and what not boxes. No pens yet but, I'm sure he could sell his art for a few hundred dollars if he decided to actually charge for them. What a great alternative use for "Firewood.