Blaze King Princess 1010A Insert Installed in Pre-Fab

[cejenkinsjr]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum and new to serious wood burning. We hired a chimney cleaning, stove selling, installation contractor and had them come to the house to suggest options for an insert. My home was built in 1998 and has had a factory built zc fireplace. We have used it regularly over the last 12 years with no problems, except for the fact that it is worthless as for providing any supplemental heat and probably costs us heated air as it goes out when there is not a fire. We have a two story house with two forced air propane fired furnaces, one downstairs, one up. Propane nearly breaks us through the winter. Anyway, our contractor suggested that the Blaze King would fit in our pre-fab and work well. We agreed to this after doing a little research about Blaze King. The owner's manual says that the Princess 1010A insert can be used in pre-fabs with a UL rating of 127. The original fireplace was large with nearly 42 inch width at the front opening, 21.5 inches tall. We ordered the insert and the contractor sent his men out last Thursday. During our original consultation, our contractor suggested that we might have to cut off a front piece of metal in order for the insert to fit in, and that because we had an 8 inch double wall flue, they would need to install a 6 inch liner. This all made sense. We did not research the original fire place for the UL rating, just took the word of the contractor that it would be fine. By the way, the original fireplace was made by Temco Fireplace Products, Inc, manufactured in 1997. I have that original manual, which I have now dug out. I clearly states that no insert should be used in this application. (However, the addition of the liner would lead me to believe that with modification, it could work ok) As the installation proceeded, the stove would have fit in the fire box, however there was not room enough at the top to connect the liner to the exhaust at the top of the insert, so after some consideration, the contractor decided to cut out the floor of the original fire box, which by the way was about 7+ inches off of the floor of the living room. After removing the fake brick sides and bottom, the contractor built up the floor with non combustibles, including the original fire box floor, then some 1 inch angle iron, covering all of that with some sort of high heat masonry product, topped off with half inch concrete board (wonderboard). Then he layed three more pieces of angle iron on top of that, finally pushing the insert into this arrangement. They then took the original fire box sides and reattached these to the sides of the original firebox, but lowered so that they mess nicely with this new floor. At this point they pulled the liner down enough to insert into the exhaust port of the insert and then sealed up the front of the fireplace opening with a custom cut piece of sheet metal. The original hood is still in place and the flue pipe runs through it with the liner inside. It is a nice looking installation. The contractor seems very knowledgeable and experienced and seemed very pleased with the overall install. I had requested a copy of his general liability policy and I have a certificate to this effect. He has his own website and has been in business for a long time. He is also a register dealer for Blaze King. Upon completing the installation, he actually built the first fire to make sure it drafted correctly and to show me the finer points regarding the temperature gauge, the cat converter, the thermostat and fan settings etc. We have had a couple of fires one during the day while we were away at work and I tried to adjust the insert correctly to try to get an overnight burn. I can see that it will take some experimentation and experience to get better results. A couple of times, I got the fire going so good that I buried the needle to the far right, down side of the temp gauge before lowering the thermostat, but no problems and it does a great job of warming the house, even into back rooms. So, Monday, I took my Blaze King warranty card and mailed it and attempted to get on Blaze King's website to post a picture of our new investment on their "wall of flame". I couldn't find their wall of flame on their website and figuring that I was just not navigating their website correctly, I clicked on the contact us tab and found their phone number, somewhere out in Washington State. I was only calling to try to find the "wall of flame". When I reached them, they didn't know how to help me and transferred me twice to finally reach their VP, a fellow named Chris. I asked about the "wall of flame" and he told me that they had gotten too many inappropriate pictures posted, many that had nothing to do with stoves or inserts and so they had to remove that part of the website! Haha. He then proceeded to ask me what we bought and how our installation went. When I told him that we had it installed in a pre-fab, he said, "What?" in a rather alarming tone. I pointed out that their owners manual for this insert says that it can be put in a factory built, just not mobile homes. He said, oh yeah, who did the work? I told him and he wanted to know if we had a insulated liner installed. I told him no, it was shiny, I imagine SS. I haven't been able to fire up the insert since, worried to death that we got mislead and that I may have a serious fire hazard. I called the contractor and told him of my phone conversation and he asked if I had talked to Chris. I said yes and he said that he had had some frustrating conversations with that guy and that sometimes, he doesn't know enough to a point where he gets transferred to someone else at Blaze King. Should I be worried? Like I said, I've had a couple of really hot fires and no problems at all. I'm tempted to pull off some of the siding off of the chimney, build a fire and see if there are good clearances. Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated. thanks, Chuck

 

[cejenkinsjr]

sorry my post is so long, I've worried myself half crazy over the last two days.

 

[nate379]

I would call another contractor and have him check it out.

 

[cejenkinsjr]

I've called my insurance claims/inspection guy and a county inspector. I'll get someone out to look at it. Got a lot of money tied up in this thing to fear using it!

 

[mellow]

For sure a "custom" install. Backwoods engineering works, but when it doesn't it ends up with catastrophic results. You have a real pickle on your hands, hope you don't have to take the guy to court to get this fixed.

Summery of the Original Post:

BK Dealer/Contractor installed BK princess in a pre-fab unit that is not certified for inserts, ripped out the bottom of pre-fab to get enough height to install non-insulated liner to insert, put down some non-combustibles for the flooring and put some lipstick on the pig to make it look nice. Chris (BKVP) which is on here as well got on the phone with OP and questioned the install now OP does not want to use install and wants to know if it is safe.

 

[BKVP]

Hello one and all.

Chuck, sorry to have caused you some concerns, but let me assure you that when it comes to our products, you will receive truthful and accurate information. My experience is not without merit (and mistakes at times) and anyone that concludes otherwise should probably...you finish the sentence.

First, a professional install involves resolving all issues and getting answers ahead of time. Second, you called and in our conversation I mentioned my concerns as you noted, about the requirement for UL127 approval. Third, as a result of that call, you were given a heads-up to what could be a serious issue.

As I understand it, you then, as per my recommendation, confirmed the name of the fireplace manufacturer and in doing so learned that the fireplace was not to have a solid fuel insert installed into it. Also, by your description, someone made significant modifications to your fireplace in order to accommodate the Princess insert.

What I would like to now explain to all, manufacturers spend more money than you might believe in BOTH safety and emissions testing. These tests are done by recognized test agencies. Specifications from these tests are then listed into the Owners & Operators Manual that ships with all products. Any deviation from these requirements and specifications can potentially create a disastrous situation. TEMPCO did their testing as did Blaze King. We are not perfect, but this I will tell you, I would not allow such an install in my home.

Again, my apologies to anyone who's feelings or reputation is hurt, but I will sleep better knowing you are not using the insert installed as you described.

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

 

[rdust]

Again, my apologies to anyone who's feelings or reputation is hurt, but I will sleep better knowing you are not using the insert installed as you described.

+1, I have to respect the honestly of this post.