Blaze King Princess insert install questions

[pgmr]

We are considering swapping out our old faithful classic insert for a new Princess insert and have a few questions:

1) The brochure (http://www.blazeking.com/Brochures-En/WoodProductPDF/PrincessInsert.pdf) shows an angle on the back of the stove where the flue connects. Even though I have a flexible liner, I'm not sure I could bend it enough to go into that connector at the proper angle - would like stove to be back in fireplace as far as possible as it will have an open right side and don't want to see a large space behind stove (actually it's SWMBO that doesn't). Does it need an elbow (15�, 30�, 45�, adjustable?) to allow the liner to "line up"?

2) Because we have a corner fireplace with two sides open, surround panels are not going to be used. Does anyone have any pictures of the side of a Princess INSERT before/during install? Am especially interested in the right side as that is the open side of fireplace. It appears from the line drawings to be just a plain steel box behind where the surround panels would normally go, but I want to verify that there are no ugly sheet metal shrouds to worry about.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wet1]

Kent,

I can't answer your questions, but I would think BK themselves should be able to help you so give them a call. You also might want to try sending a PM to "weatherguy", I know he has a Princess insert and I believe he's in the process of installing it, so he can probably answer your questions as well.

 

[pgmr]

Thanks, Wet1, will do both suggestions.

 

[Wet1]

You're welcome.

Looking at your picture, it looks like installing a standard stove (non-insert) in there might be another option if you have the room.

 

[pgmr]

Thanks again, I have considered that. The dimensions of the fireplace are 34w x 26h x 25d. The stove would have to be pretty short or usable w/o legs. Also concerned about the intense radiant heat a std stove might put into the masonry of the fireplace. Might be a foolish concern, but when used as a fireplace, there was plenty of cooling air being sucked in and I know nothing about the construction behind the masonry of the fireplace.

Does anyone know of a cat stove that can be used w/o legs, has side and back shields and a blower?

 

[Wet1]

I'd ask BK about this as well. They might be able to make up up a Princess Ultra w/o the pedistal base. I supose you'd only want a side sheild on the left side. The blower on the back of the BK products covers a good portion of the rear of their stoves.

Again, I'd contact BK and send them a picture with what you're working with and let them help you make a decision. I'll send you an email addy via PM.

Look at the Buck cat stoves as well.

 

[pgmr]

I also have Buck on the short list. The 91 is probably overkill for this house, but the model 80 looks pretty good. Have a dealer ~ 15 miles away (vs 70 mi for the BK), so I'll probably take a trip to see the Bucks they have on hand.

 

[pgmr]

Just found out that the catalytic model 80 I was interested in (with EPA rating of 72% eff.) is not on Buck's Certificate of Efficiency. This means it is NOT eligible for the 30% tax credit.

OTOH, some of the non-cats (model 81 and 85) with lower EPA rating of 63% ARE on the certificate. Weird...guess I just don't know enough about the Lower Heating Value test that has to be above 75% eff. to qualify. Anyone able to explain it in English?

 

[Todd]

Just found out that the catalytic model 80 I was interested in (with EPA rating of 72% eff.) is not on Buck's Certificate of Efficiency. This means it is NOT eligible for the 30% tax credit.

OTOH, some of the non-cats (model 81 and 85) with lower EPA rating of 63% ARE on the certificate. Weird...guess I just don't know enough about the Lower Heating Value test that has to be above 75% eff. to qualify. Anyone able to explain it in English?

The 72% and 63% are the EPA's default efficiency ratings for cats and non cats. They don't test for efficiency so just threw the stoves in close enough guesstimate. Buck just may be a little late in conducting the new test method required for the tax break and I think everyone of their stove should pass if tested to the new standards. Maybe you can contact them or dealer?

 

[pgmr]

I contacted Buck yesterday and their rep said the model 80 has an overall efficiency of just less than 75%.

 

[Highbeam]

Note that the smaller buck cat requires an 8" flue. Is your liner 8".

Funny how BK requires a vertical double wall flue for 36" on the freestanding princess but then on the insert version they run the flue out the back with a 45 on it right on the stove. If you are going to use an insert I would push for that princess, the biggest negative on the BK other than cost in some areas is the ugliness. The insert version looks typical. With the BK you will get the high efficiency, the thermostat, the massive blowers, and the firebox size that allows for long burns.

 

[pgmr]

Yes, our liner is an 8" ss flex. Hopefully it will draw well enough if we have to up-size from a 6" outlet. Don't want to pull the 8" due to loose fill perlite insulation surrounding it. Wonder if lining an 8" liner w/6" liner is ok?

Weatherguy is going to be sending me some pictures of the "naked" Princess insert (sounds dirty! ) so I can show the wife. I do like all the features you mentioned, HB, and would like to go w/the Princess if the aesthetics are livable.

VP at BK emailed today that he couldn't send any pics, because they are out of stock and are several weeks away from having more. Tax credit is really ramping up demand.

 

[Wet1]

I believe BK scheduling is based on JIT... they make it when they receive the order, typically within 24 hours. Although, I seem to recall their crummy east coast distributor stocks some of these units. Maybe this is why we pay >50% more for BK on the Atlantic.

I'm glad to hear John could help you out with some pics.

 

[weezer4117]

what are you doing with the old stove ?

 

[pgmr]

Selling it on CL or Ebay, unless someone on here wants to make an offer. Still haven't done anything yet, but am leaning toward the Buck 80, even though it's not on the Efficiency Certificate - don't know why, even Volzgang is claiming their EPA stoves meet the requirements!

 

[Later]

I'd talk to mason about closing up that right side - I don't think that any insert world look good from that view.

 

[iceman]

pull the stove out check the bricks look for anything abnormal... and put a stove not an insert in there.....not trying to be an a@@ but would you buy a car just to take the doors off and the wheel to use it?.... or like someone suggested close up a side... so u can utilize an insert

 

[pgmr]

I'd talk to mason about closing up that right side - I don't think that any insert world look good from that view.

The mismatch in brick/mortar color would look worse to me. There are a number of stoves (like the Buck model 80 mentioned above) that can be used as either stove or insert - they'll look as good as a steel box can look either way.

put a stove not an insert in there.....not trying to be an a@@ but would you buy a car just to take the doors off and the wheel to use it?.... or like someone suggested close up a side... so u can utilize an insert

Using stove instead of insert considered and discussed above. If SWMBO wanted a car w/no doors and wheel, that's what I'd drive...hard to steer I suppose. SWMBO LIKES the look of the stove w/o the shrouds...who am I to argue if it gets me a new stove?

 

[bfunk13]

Your liner should line up fine, mine did as well with no elbow or 45.
As far as the right side, the stove itself is not meant to be looked at from the side so they
are not very attractive. Just a metal box. I would either find, build or have made a custom fireplace screen or piece of metal art
with whatever design you like. Even a cool stained glass design hanging from hooks would do the trick.
It would be nice to have access to that side if you ever needed to get in there.

My 2 cents

Brad

 

[pgmr]

Good suggestions, Brad. Do you recall if the pieces that mount to left and right side of the insert (where bypass handle and thermostat are located and similar piece on other side) are attached to the stove or the shroud? Manual isn't really clear if they are separate pieces or not.

We don't really mind the look of a plain steel box as that's what we've already got, but I don't want to look at some shiny sheet metal heat channel that some inserts use.

 

[bfunk13]

They are not part of the shroud.
The shroud tucks behind them on both side as well as the top.
I really can't remember exactly what the sides look like.
Seems like you could find something to fill that side, if needed.

Brad

 

[theheatelement]

I would reline it with a new 6" liner.. you can slide it right down the 8" model with no problems