Blocked Fireplace Questions

[ndgregor]

Hello,

I am purchasing an older farmhouse which was built circa 1850. I noticed that the fireplace has been covered, and there is a large slate stone over the top of the chimney on the roof. The chimney is made of brick, and on the exterior appears to be in good shape. I would very much like to get the fireplace back into an operational status, but have a few questions:

1.) Why would someone block off the fireplace? Should I assume that the only reason this would be done is due to some severe damage or cost prohibitive reason? Maybe someone did not want to pay for it to be lined?

2.) I have attached a picture of the fireplace where it has been covered up. I am concerned about the clearance to the small wall on the right hand side. Is there anything I can do short of taking the wall down to address that?

3.) I would assume there is a hearth extension somewhere underneath the carpet. If not, putting one in would not be a problem. I also assume the firebox doesn't start right at the edge of the mantel, I feel like people from back in the day were much smarter than that. From what I am reading, I need 12 inches from the inside of the firebox to the upper mantel as well as that right hand wall. Can anyone confirm?

Is there anything else I am not thinking about?

Thanks for your help and opinions. Once I move in I plan to open up the fireplace to determine exactly where the firebox starts and its condition.

 

[jetsam]

They probably blocked it off because they installed central heat, and they didn't want a 10x12 hole in the roof anymore. Open fireplaces can be worse than an open window in the winter, heat-wise.

Clearance-wise, you need to decide what kind of stove you are going to put there. After you make that decision, you will know all your clearances. You may well wind up removing it. Same for the hearth; your appliance will dictate requirements, and you can expand from there as desired.

Get the whole flue system visually inspected before you start buying stuff. If it is a masonry chimney in bad shape, it could be vastly cheaper to run a new flue than to use the old one.

 

[bholler]

Hello,

I am purchasing an older farmhouse which was built circa 1850. I noticed that the fireplace has been covered, and there is a large slate stone over the top of the chimney on the roof. The chimney is made of brick, and on the exterior appears to be in good shape. I would very much like to get the fireplace back into an operational status, but have a few questions:

1.) Why would someone block off the fireplace? Should I assume that the only reason this would be done is due to some severe damage or cost prohibitive reason? Maybe someone did not want to pay for it to be lined?

2.) I have attached a picture of the fireplace where it has been covered up. I am concerned about the clearance to the small wall on the right hand side. Is there anything I can do short of taking the wall down to address that?

3.) I would assume there is a hearth extension somewhere underneath the carpet. If not, putting one in would not be a problem. I also assume the firebox doesn't start right at the edge of the mantel, I feel like people from back in the day were much smarter than that. From what I am reading, I need 12 inches from the inside of the firebox to the upper mantel as well as that right hand wall. Can anyone confirm?

Is there anything else I am not thinking about?

Thanks for your help and opinions. Once I move in I plan to open up the fireplace to determine exactly where the firebox starts and its condition.

Like jetsam said it was probably blocked off due to heat loss. Chances are the fireplace could be brought back into service. But it will be very expensive for little to no heat gain. As far as the clearances go most old fireplaces don't have enough clearance. But the mantle you have does not look like a mid 19th century mantle anyway so it wouldn't be a huge loss. There is also real possibility your fireplace was a coal fireplace and never used for wood at all. If that is the case there may not be enough room in the firebox or flue to make a wood burning unit

 

[ndgregor]

Like jetsam said it was probably blocked off due to heat loss. Chances are the fireplace could be brought back into service. But it will be very expensive for little to no heat gain. As far as the clearances go most old fireplaces don't have enough clearance. But the mantle you have does not look like a mid 19th century mantle anyway so it wouldn't be a huge loss. There is also real possibility your fireplace was a coal fireplace and never used for wood at all. If that is the case there may not be enough room in the firebox or flue to make a wood burning unit

I would not bring it back to use as a primary heat source. The house has central air and natural gas heat. Depending on the cost to get it operational, I would like to open it and use as a fireplace for enjoyment purposes. What should I look for to determine whether it was used as a wood burning fireplace or coal burner?

I am not concerned with the mantle per your point, it does not look original anyway. My primary concern is the wall on the right hand side.

 

[bholler]

I would not bring it back to use as a primary heat source. The house has central air and natural gas heat. Depending on the cost to get it operational, I would like to open it and use as a fireplace for enjoyment purposes. What should I look for to determine whether it was used as a wood burning fireplace or coal burner?

I am not concerned with the mantle per your point, it does not look original anyway. My primary concern is the wall on the right hand side.

Without seeing what is there I would make a rough guess that turning it into a safe useable woodburning fireplace would be $10000 to $15000. Once you open it up you will have a better idea it could be more or less depending upon what is there.

 

[ndgregor]

Without seeing what is there I would make a rough guess that turning it into a safe useable woodburning fireplace would be $10000 to $15000. Once you open it up you will have a better idea it could be more or less depending upon what is there.

WOW I had no idea it would be that kind of money! I was thinking 5-7k, but really had no idea since I’m not in the business. I may reconsider the project now knowing better. For recreational purposes it certainly wouldn’t justify that kind of cost.

 

[spudman99]

The other thing to consider is how the stove would affect your room use/layout. I have been through hundreds of homes like that in PA and bholler is probably right it was for a small coal fired device in the late 1800's.

Taking down that wall is not so simple, even if it is not weight bearing. Matching the walls (which are almost certainly plaster) is difficult. Then if you do that, installing a small stove or inset will require you to reconfigure your seating arrangement. Most fireplaces occupy a central focal point in a room, not typically a side spot. Your couches and chairs will have to be reconfigured, and that may not be optimal for your use.

Rarely do I see owners use small fireplaces like that for ambience, your return on investment is likely to be 10% or less. Now if you open it up as a non-functioning fireplace, you gain the feature as a visual attraction into the room and don't have to fuss with flues, wood, hearth clearances and the like.

 

[bholler]

WOW I had no idea it would be that kind of money! I was thinking 5-7k, but really had no idea since I’m not in the business. I may reconsider the project now knowing better. For recreational purposes it certainly wouldn’t justify that kind of cost.

5 to 7 may be possible depending upon what is there.

 

[ndgregor]

The other thing to consider is how the stove would affect your room use/layout. I have been through hundreds of homes like that in PA and bholler is probably right it was for a small coal fired device in the late 1800's.

Taking down that wall is not so simple, even if it is not weight bearing. Matching the walls (which are almost certainly plaster) is difficult. Then if you do that, installing a small stove or inset will require you to reconfigure your seating arrangement. Most fireplaces occupy a central focal point in a room, not typically a side spot. Your couches and chairs will have to be reconfigured, and that may not be optimal for your use.

Rarely do I see owners use small fireplaces like that for ambience, your return on investment is likely to be 10% or less. Now if you open it up as a non-functioning fireplace, you gain the feature as a visual attraction into the room and don't have to fuss with flues, wood, hearth clearances and the like.

I don’t think room function would be impacted negatively. The way it’s situated the wall really doesn’t separate the room from much. If it did require the wall to come down I would question doing anything to be honest.

Either way, I don’t like the way it looks now with the mantle. I want to open it up, get an assessment of what options are available at what cost. Preference would be to have a wood burning fireplace, but a pellet stove could be an option as well. I don’t mind putting money into it, but there’s obviously a limit. If I can’t do anything in a cost effective format, I would just plaster over it completely or leave it non functioning as you mentioned. It just looks awkward as is.

How do I tell if it is set up for wood burning or coal?

 

[ndgregor]

5 to 7 may be possible depending upon what is there.

Any advice on how to tell if it was used for coal or wood?

 

[bholler]

Any advice on how to tell if it was used for coal or wood?

Just post pics and measurments when u open it up

 

[armanidog]

I bought a house here in GA that was built in 1906. When I moved in I had the same thoughts you did. I have four fireplaces that were sealed off. The two interior chimneys above the roof were cracked and spalled. They had never been sealed and were open to the weather.
I had a mason come and he said he could repair them to at least not blow over. The roof was an 8/12 metal roof.
He and his helper raised both chimneys two feet to be above the peak of the roof. He re-pointed the bad places and then covered the chimneys with stucco. We also cleaned the flues of squirrel nests and other rubbish. Not any creosote we could see since they had not been used since the late 1940's. Just a lot of nest material and pecan shells the squirrels had left.
The hearths were collapsed since they had originally been built on wooden shelves which had rotted. So a new 4' x 4' brick hearth was built for one of the fireplaces.
I had him seal the top of one of the chimneys since I would not be using it.
That was $4500.
An insulated 26 foot 6 inch liner was around a $1000. I was not going to trust the old chimney for containing any flames, so I installed it with the mason's help.
I then installed an Englander NC-30 wood stove which was $750 (on sale at Home Depot).
It was lot of work but it has paid off with safe efficient wood heat which helps these old bones in the cold weather.
Looking at your photo, it looks like the plaster was replaced with sheet rock. I'll bet they remodeled the house and added that wall since it is so close to the fireplace.
If it were me, I would look into a nice wood stove located someplace less awkward. I would take the wood work off the fireplace and cover it with sheet rock. The new stoves have nice large glass fronts which gives you ambiance and heat. You could get a nice stove, a new hearth, and a new metal chimney for the $5-7,000 you were planning on spending to restore that fireplace.

 

[WinterinWI]

Looking at your photo, it looks like the plaster was replaced with sheet rock. I'll bet they remodeled the house and added that wall since it is so close to the fireplace.

I was thinking that might be the case also. I would tear it open and see what you've got. If it ends up being a big headache you can always close it back up.

 

[ndgregor]

I bought a house here in GA that was built in 1906. When I moved in I had the same thoughts you did. I have four fireplaces that were sealed off. The two interior chimneys above the roof were cracked and spalled. They had never been sealed and were open to the weather.
I had a mason come and he said he could repair them to at least not blow over. The roof was an 8/12 metal roof.
He and his helper raised both chimneys two feet to be above the peak of the roof. He re-pointed the bad places and then covered the chimneys with stucco. We also cleaned the flues of squirrel nests and other rubbish. Not any creosote we could see since they had not been used since the late 1940's. Just a lot of nest material and pecan shells the squirrels had left.
The hearths were collapsed since they had originally been built on wooden shelves which had rotted. So a new 4' x 4' brick hearth was built for one of the fireplaces.
I had him seal the top of one of the chimneys since I would not be using it.
That was $4500.
An insulated 26 foot 6 inch liner was around a $1000. I was not going to trust the old chimney for containing any flames, so I installed it with the mason's help.
I then installed an Englander NC-30 wood stove which was $750 (on sale at Home Depot).
It was lot of work but it has paid off with safe efficient wood heat which helps these old bones in the cold weather.
Looking at your photo, it looks like the plaster was replaced with sheet rock. I'll bet they remodeled the house and added that wall since it is so close to the fireplace.
If it were me, I would look into a nice wood stove located someplace less awkward. I would take the wood work off the fireplace and cover it with sheet rock. The new stoves have nice large glass fronts which gives you ambiance and heat. You could get a nice stove, a new hearth, and a new metal chimney for the $5-7,000 you were planning on spending to restore that fireplace.

Thanks for the information, all good to know. It does look as if the two rooms involved were remodeled and that wall and a wall across the room were added during the process. The plaster has been replaced with sheetrock.

My plan is to open the fireplace and assess the situation, get a professional out to help give me a ball park idea as to what the cost would be to get it back operational. If it becomes cost prohibitive or too much work due to clearances, I will remove the mantel and sheetrock over the entire opening.

Thanks for all the feedback I have gotten on this website.

 

[weatherguy]

I've come across many homes that have the fireplace covered, a lot of people open them up and make them look good with a few birch logs in the fireplace and never burn them since they dont want to spend big bucks to get them operable. You wont know til you get in there.