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Buck 27000 with 8in flue and new 6 inch outside chimney with two 15 deg elbows

Post in 'Classic Wood Stove Forums (prior to approx. 1993)' started by madasahatter, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. madasahatter

    madasahatter New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Loc:
    southwestern Ohio
    Hello All,
    I've just inherited a buck stove from my dad, circa 1970.
    I know it is not as good as the newer EPA stove, but it's what I've got and don't have the money to upgrade.
    I'm putting it in my basement of a two story house.
    It has an 8 inch flue pipe. It worked fine at my Dad's house, single story straight up.
    I need to do a through the concrete wall install.
    It will run up the outside of my house about 21 foot to my eaves and then about 8 foot up on my 12/12 roof.
    I need to put two 15 deg. elbows in the run.
    The SuperVent pipe says not to do this because it will not support the weight after an elbow. I'm in the metal working industry and plan on making supports so that this will not be an issue. I plan on having two wall supports, one at the bottom of the "T" and the second at the top of the first elbow. Maybe another one at the eaves of the house to secure it again after the second elbow.
    I've read the forums for days and days now.
    My questions are this;
    1) For an older Buck, can I safely choke it down to 6 inch. It is currently 8 inch, and the 1970’s manual says to use 8 inch, but I know they make bigger and badder stoves now that use only 6 inch. I was hoping that going to 6 inch would create more total draft volume, keep the smoke hotter and travel faster. I keep reading about people doing this on the forum, but I don’t find any response to how well it actually works.
    2) Is having two elbows in the outside chimney that big of a deal if they are supported? I mean they do it inside with some rinky dink all strap and a band around the chimney. If I put in 3 actual wall supports that each hold (capable) 38 feet of pipe, one at the top of each elbow, seems to me it would be much stronger that the inside install would be using those straps…..
    3) Is there such a thing as building codes that prohibit elbows in chimneys?
    4) Do you typically have to have it all inspected to get homeowner’s insurance?
    5) If so, who would do the inspection and can I hire them before I do this so I can show them my plan?
    What do you think?

    See drawing plans here:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/367662/CHIMNEY.pdf

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,089
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    FWIW, it is advised not to downsize the pipe on these stoves. Have you considered the money saved if a stove was put on the first floor and vented straight up through the house?
  3. madasahatter

    madasahatter New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Loc:
    southwestern Ohio
    Thanks for the reply.
    Yes we have thought about it, but we really want to heat the basement. It's a full basement with the south side completely open with 3 door walk-out access.
    I'd like to make it into man land down there.
    Thanks again.
  4. gzecc

    gzecc Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,862
    Loc:
    NNJ
    Realize the two most important parts of any stove is draft and fuel. If you change the draft, it may not work! It will probably work poorly. Worse, if you burn your house down the insurance company may say? Looks like a no win situation to me. Fortunate for you, I have not been that successful in life!
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,089
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Well, what ever you do, make it safe.
  6. madasahatter

    madasahatter New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Loc:
    southwestern Ohio
    So here's an update;
    Talked to the insurance guy. It has to be inspected to be OK'd for insurance to cover the house.
    Talked to the inspector guy. If the 1972 manual says 8inch flue, then that's what is has to be. Unless Buck has issued a new update saying it's OK to step down to the 6 inch pipe.
    Called Buck stoves got voice mail. No call back. I'm thinking they aren't doing much new research on the 27000 series.
    The inspector guy says that he'd rather see two 15 degree elbows than a straight up. Says he will need the install manual for the chimney also. But install manual clearly says, in all bold caps no less, no offsets on exterior chimneys. So once the inspector guy sees the manual, I think he's going to change his mind about the offsets.......

    So here's plan B;
    Do a 48 inch horizontal run and straight up 30 feet with 8" flue
    The inspector guy says that it would be within code, but doubts it will draft....too much volume and not enough heat to carry it 30 feet with that long of a horizontal run.
    So, I ask the inspector guy what good it does me to meet inspection, but not have a working chimney?
    He's adamant about the 8 inch being 8 inch if it says so in the manual.
    He says it’s a chance I’ve got to take.
    So, I ask the inspector guy what happens if I hit the lottery and can afford to buy a new stove and the new stove only has a 6 inch flue. (since most new ones do) Will that work with the new 8 inch chimney? Inspector guy says it’s OK to go from small to big, but he doubts it would work since the new stove is designed for a 6 inch flue…….. Too much volume not enough heat to carry it 30 feet.
    He says it’s a chance I’ve got to take.

    So here’s plan C;
    I stick with the space heaters and the $656 a month heat bills.

    Oh, I forgot to mention I’m a proud new owner of a 14 inch hole through my 8 inch concrete wall that cost me $200 last night…….so if anyone’s interested in a slightly used hole, I can make you a deal on one!
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    48,089
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Plan D. Use a different brand class A pipe that allows the outside offset. They are not that uncommon.
  8. Agent

    Agent Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    165
    Loc:
    Gillette, WY
    FWIW - I have a Buck 2800 that I necked down from 10" to 8" and in addition to an 8" reline, has actually been working better than before.
    Mine sits in the basement against a wall, and it certainly has no problem heating the whole house. The only problem is that it's generally quite comfortable upstairs, but pretty darn hot downstairs.
  9. gzecc

    gzecc Minister of Fire

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    Agent, Never heard of a ten inch. I thought all old Bucks were 8".
  10. Agent

    Agent Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    Gillette, WY
    Tell me about it gzecc! It's pretty hard researching something that nobody has. 10" pipe to 10x10 clay tile exterior chimney is the ultimate recipe for creosote buildup.
  11. gzecc

    gzecc Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    3,862
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    NNJ
    Call these guys. They know all there is to know. http://www.servicesales.com/buck-stove-parts-c-22.html

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