Burn performance of 22 yr old Vermont Castings Defiant Encore 2140

[ylekyote]

I bought a home with this stove in the upper level. The main upper level is about 1,000 SF. The stove sits to one corner of that level. The bottom level is another 1,000 SF. I live in central Colorado at about 6,000 feet elevation.

I've only burned it twice thus far. I have never used wood stoves before so I am learning. Please tell me how this sounds, performance wise. I am pondering a new stove, and want to know if I should consider canning or repairing this one which has a burned up damper assembly and bad CAT element. The damper will not close and even if it did the previous owner said the CAT was bad and air would not flow through it right (making it useless, plus he said smoke would come out even if attempted):

Tonight it got down to 35 degrees so I fired up the Vermont Castings stove for the 2nd time. I have a magnetic thermometer about 18" up the pipe, and another in the center of the top plate (center top of stove). Here is two pics of stove with the damper defect I spoke of and I have a CL ad to sell it here:
https://post.craigslist.org/manage/4092950715

I loaded it up about 4/5 full with small, medium and large size pieces of really dry wood. It lit real quick, had good draw, and I closed the doors right away. As it was going I tested the draw with the top plate slightly open as well as one front door...it worked well. I had the primary air thermostat all the way open for max oxygen. In about 20 minutes it had reached about 550 degrees in the pipe and same on stove.

This is the high end of the "optimum temp range" my thermometer states so I closed the air thermostat all the way to restrict air in hopes to tame it. It continued to rise quickly, as if that had no effect. About 5 minutes later the temp in the pipe had climbed to about 750 - 800 degrees and it was about 800 on the top center of the stove. I got a bit nervous. Then, about 5 or 10 minutes later the pipe started to cool and it dropped to within the optimum operating range (about 500 degrees) in the pipe, but stayed about 700 degrees on the stove. So I got off my fire-fighter gear and chilled, lol.

I took temp readings with a room thermometer after the stove peaked. It read 135 degrees at the sides of the stove (on outer ends of mitten dryer racks). About 18 feet away it was about 80. About 4 feet it was 90. Before I fired it up, the entire room was about 70.

The first batch of wood fire burned about 1.25 hours before it was just small hot embers. I added one more medium size piece of wood and that burned for about 35 minutes before it pretty much went out and was embers too.

How is this operation compared to your experiences? Was my high heat point too hot for that short period? Should I reduce the amount of the first fill-up to reduce the temp on the first burn? Maybe fill the fire pit about 1/2 rather than 4/5?

How about the burn time? Was it too short compared to better operating stoves?

As you can see from the pics, the damper door assembly is all burned up. That is where the flames really move across, so makes sense it is basically burned away after 20 years of use.

What are my options for controlling a fire when I have no way to close off the damper? Can I open a door and spray the fire with water? Can I install a stand alone pipe damper that flips open and shut at my command? At present all I have is chemical fire extinguishers and those Firex sticks you light and toss in (to rob the fire of oxygen). Those are not cheap...like $30 a piece. Looks like a jumbo sized roadside flare.

Thanks much!
Chris

 

[jharkin]

You might not like this answer.

That looks like it was abused and overfired. Even 20 years of normal use wont disintegrate an iron damper like that. My parents still burn the 1979 resolute I grew up with, its going on 30 years still original castings.

Unless you are willing to put the work into fixing that stove properly its never going to be much of a heater. Without the cat and damper its efficiency is worse than an old smoke dragon and as you found it uncontrollable.For comparison, if I fill mine full of hardwood I can get it to burn up to 8 or 10 hours on low, minimum ~5 hr if I'm burning it hot at 600.



Its a lot of work, but with a properly functioning cat system that is actually a very respectable heater. To fix it you need a replacement fire back kit, which includes that broken damper assembly plus the ceramic refractory and a bunch of other parts that wear out:
http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/557669/products/Vermont-Castings-Defiant-Encore-Fireback-Kit.html
$500

You will also need a new catalyst, about $150-200 from various vendors. I use Condar.

I'd also redo every gasket while you are at it.


Only you can decide if this expense is worth it to you or it be better to scrap and buy new. I can say that if you have to buy wood, the excess wood consumption in the first year alone will cost far more than those parts.

If you want to try doing this work, a lot of us can give advice. I'm doing a similar rebuild, member BrowningBAR has done one, and member Defiant is our resident VC expert.

Once done you should get 3-10 years use out of the cat depending on how much you burn. The damper should be good for another 20 years or more. I just reinstalled my 16 year old damper, it only needed a cleanup and gasket job.

 

[ylekyote]

So I'm look'n at abut $900 to $1,000 in parts and that doesn't include my time and headaches? Heck...I am buying a new heater. I didn't realize the assembly would be $500! That's outrageous.

What do you think could cause that kind of burn through? Just not using the CAT and leaving the damper open? The previous owner said they quit using the damper because when it was closed the cat system would blow smoke out the front. Sounds like it was clogged, the users neglected to find out why, and just decided to burn and burn hot fires until it burned away the portions around the damper opening.

 

[ylekyote]

I can buy a new Vogelzang Ponderosa and put it in the downstairs area for $1100 from Tractor Supply. Anyone have comments about these stoves? I can use that to heat the home until I figure out how to upgrade all the other components. Another recommendation instead of the Ponderosa?

 

[Hogwildz]

Englander NC30, most bang for the buck.
Sturdy stout stove.
Customer service second to none.
Will give great heat.

 

[jharkin]

If you replace only the damper housing its about $150. But if its that far gone guarantee that the refractory is shot also and then you might as well get the kit. So yes fixing it could be close to $800, which is why so many folks scrap these stoves when they get older.

As to the cause, I don't know for sure, but it looks like more than just years of use. But that's the thing with catalytic stoves, and especially cast iron downdraft catalytic stoves - they don't take well to any kind of abuse or sloppy operating habits.

So yes, economically you are probably better Cutting your losses. I can second hogs reccomendation of a 30 for inexpensive dependable heat.

 

[ylekyote]

Englander NC30, most bang for the buck.
Sturdy stout stove.
Customer service second to none.
Will give great heat.

Super. Thanks for the guidance. I need to buy one soon. I have a protected area for the upstairs stove. Any benefits for buying any of the extra heat shielding or that kind of stuff? Or does more shielding equal less heat to the home? thanks, c

 

[Hogwildz]

The rear shield is attached from factory.
The side shields are not needed unless you need close clearances to combustibles.
Side shields may also be a consideration for some folks with young children or pets.

 

[begreen]

Also, shields reduce your clearance requirements considerably. The heat to the home is the same. Just less directly radiated off the stove. Instead it convects upward. I would get them. That hearth does not look like it was sufficient for the old VC stove.

 

[rideau]

Pleasse read some threads here about burning techniques, and read the manual of any new stove you purchase very carefully. Some of the things you are thinking of doing are downright dangerous. DO NOT put water in your stove EVER to cool it down.

Wood stoves are really safe, and many will last close to a lifetime, IF properly run. But you do need to know what you are doing, and have a good deal of respect for what can happen when things are done that should not be done. In that scenario, the stoves can be very dangerous.