CAB50 stove: starts up then pellets stop feeding

[GLC2005]

I got a Heatilator CAB50 two weeks ago. I run it in an uninsulated workshop.

The last two times I tried to restart the stove after cleaning out the fire pot...I had trouble restarting the stove.

Pellets go into the pot and ignite. I press the reset at the 2 then 5 minute intervals as it said in the manual. BUT pellets stop feeding a few minute after that (it varies but it's usually around 5-10 minutes)

I have to repeat the entire startup procedure several times before the pellets start to feed automatically. Last night I went through the sequence more than 8 times (from 430 pm to 10 pm) before the stove began to automatically feed.

Since I am new to pellet stoves, I am hoping you experts will have some solution for me. Thanks.

 

[Fsappo]

Well, I don't know the stove, but in most fire thingies fuel wont feed without proof of fire, so maybe a limit switch? On a pellet stove it could also be a vacuum switch? I'm guessing limit because the thing does light eventually.

Did you buy it new? Maybe the dealer can check it out?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The proof of fire system isn't sensing that a fire is going in the stove so it goes into shutdown.

I'm going to be lazy and not read your stoves manual and suggest that you locate the proof of fire thermo snap disc and clean between it and what it mounts against, along with the area behind where it mounts or if it is a ceramic one clean the end that goes into the exhaust path and around where it goes into the exhaust path.

Remember with the stove off, cold, and unplugged.

Now you can test the switch if you wish but from your description it does work eventually.

The basic problem here is that the switch isn't seeing enough heat to cause it to close before the time out interval has elapsed.

Have you adjusted the fuel gate on that stove?

Maybe opening it up would produce a longer and hotter burning start-up fire so the proof of fire system can see it.

 

[Fsappo]

You got two proof of fire suggestions, go for it and report back!

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Heatilator's proof of fire is the thermocouple hanging over the burn pot. Make sure the probe is inserted all the way into the ceramic protector. Next make sure all connections are good. Go from there.

Eric

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Heatilator's proof of fire is the thermocouple hanging over the burn pot. Make sure the probe is inserted all the way into the ceramic protector. Next make sure all connections are good. Go from there.

Eric

Told ya I was going to be lazy and not read the manual.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Damn bears!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Damn bears!

Well everyone else tosses the manual somewhere where it won't be found and it is hibernating season so .

 

[kinsmanstoves]

I tell people to put it next to the toilet.

Eric

 

[GLC2005]

I tell people to put it next to the toilet.

Eric

Thanks. The dealer's tech is coming out this aft so I will show him this thread. Do you think the thermocouple was jostled during transport and there is a loose connection? The stove is fresh out of the box 2 weeks ago.

 

[GLC2005]

Also, It is -16 outside. Wind chill makes it -26. Inside the shop it is about +6 ( all degrees centigrade) which is bearable. Do you think the ambient temperature affects performance?. The dealer said it shouldn't but I'm thinking insulating the shop is next on the to do list. Thanks again.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

In case what is above is still the incorrect POF setup there is one that uses a photo-eye, in that system the most frequent problem is crud on the lens that the photo-eye looks through.

The ambient temperature should not make any difference unless HHT has gone back to the older start up system where the start up is done at the heat range you have set the stove to. That supposedly was resolved by doing the start up at high fire and throttling back to whatever you had the stove set to.

Your stove has a quadrafire burn system in it, that was the reason I asked about if you had adjusted the fuel gate.

 

[Chrisnow86]

I tell people to put it next to the toilet.

Eric

Haha my wife saw the manual to my stove in the bathroom and she goes "really hun? You read this while going to the bathroom?" I said hey that's important information

 

[GLC2005]

Smokey and Gang. The dealer tech came out today. He checked the thermocouple and said it was 'okay'. He pointed out a number of things:
1) pellet quality is a BIG deal. He says they've had the most success with a combination of spruce and pine rather than strictly pine pellets.
2) sometimes pellets will 'bridge' and not fall into the auger. Stirring the pellets may help break the bridge.
3) be sure to set thermostat to max and the auger/fan switch to high (not med or low) - which is what Smokey pointed out.
4) do NOT press the RESET button once the pellets start falling. I was pressing it at the 2 and 5 min marks as in the FIRST time we started it up.
5) insulating the workshop might help prolong the life of the unit. I DID notice that when the outside temperature was above zero (say 4-10 Centigrade), the stove seemed to be working less hard. Duh....

He had a lot to say about poor pellet quality. A hardwood/softwood blend produces a better heat, he said. And the brand he recommended also produced fewer clinkers, and less ash. I can attest to that. The only problem was that when I got the stove they didn't have enough 40lb bags and so I had to go with another brand. I noticed there was a lot of sawdust in the bags of this second type - and there was more - and darker - ash being produced.

Conclusion (at this point): stove is okay but just be careful what you feed it.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I don't believe anyone said there was an issue with the thermocouple just that it must be clean and properly placed so it will come up to temperature.

HHT must be going backwards in time as the cold start syndrome was fixed back a bit or your fuel gate is closed a bit too much.

 

[St_Earl]

i don't for a minute believe it's the pellet's fault.

heatilators are not finicky eaters.

 

[GLC2005]

Ok.... So what is the recommendation now? Open the fuel gate a bit more?

What is the "cold start syndrome"?

Thanks.

 

[St_Earl]

the reason my gate is not absolutely all the way closed, is that the stove needed a little more fuel in the pot to reach and maintain the needed temp to initiate further feeding of fuel.
at the start of this season (my 4th with the stove) i had to tweak the gate till i got reliable starts again.
pellet size is also a variable/part of the equation you are adjusting for. but it's just an aspect of the basic question of how much fuel is being delivered.
the rationale is that larger pellets leave more air space in the tube so deliver less fuel per auger turn at any given feed gate setting. whereas smaller pellets pack more fuel in as they fit more closely together.

it takes a while for any adjustment of the gate to take effect. the auger tube has to refill itself at the new input rate. 10 or 15 minutes is a safe amount of time per adjustment.
small increments can make a difference. and you are fine tuning, so keep that in mind.
too much fuel will be a problem as well for flame height and vigor and air flow.
the manual instructs to set flame height while on high. but you need to be sure it will run on low as well.

of course, keep the pellet level in the hopper low enough to access the gate between adjustments. but not drastically low. you need some amount covering the tube to keep vacuum in the system
like someone else mentioned, the fact that you got pellets to drop and the stove to run says the vacuum switch is working (otherwise the auger wouldn't turn after the initial drop sequence) so my best guess is all you need to do is get enough fuel in the pot to get the needed heat to get the stove running on it's own.

you just have to hone in on it manually.
once the stove is running, it is possible to have it feed enough to run on low, but then that amount may possibly be to low to actually light from cold on low. hope that makes sense.
what the tech said is reasonable in a way, you are likely to succeed if you start on high, but i have mine adjusted so it will indeed start on low too. if it won't light on low, then you won't be able to run on a thermostat while set on low. really the stove is designed to light on all three settings.

if you overshoot a little and get the rate a little high, that is fine. then you can start backing it down and adjust flame height on all settings and then see if it also lights and runs on all settings.

you'll get the feel for it.
hopefully i'm right and what i have experienced is basically the same for you.
best of luck.

*edit to add, you might possibly have to reset the gate if you change brands of pellets. not always, but because of what i mentioned about pellet size, it is always a possibility.

What is the "cold start syndrome"?

i've never had this per se. but i imagine if your stove was drastically cold to begin with, you'd need even more heat to reach operating temp.
being as this is in your shop, that may be a part of your equation.
lol! i see you are in alberta. yeah. this is probably a factor. but it's still the exact same principle.
i suppose if it was cold enough, lighting on low could be compromised. again, you don't want too much fuel.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Cold start syndrome was a condition that only appeared when the room temperature was below about 40 or 5 and the stove failed to achieve run mode before the start up time expired.

That was fixed in how the stoves were started.

However it is still possible to under feed the stove by having the fuel gate closed too much for the pellets being burned. The manual speaks to flame height adjustment.

The most common cause for a missed start is to have the thermocouple not against the end of its cover and the whole assembly improperly situated over the burn pot. It wants to be toasty and then some.

Next in line is a fully empty auger system due to the fuel being all gone, this is likely one of the reason about pressing the reset button being mentioned in the manual. Like I said I'm being lazy and not reading the manual.

Then I suppose I should mention the little holes in the burn pot needing to be clean and the bottom not being open more than the thickness of a dime. As this would interfere with being able to get a proper air/fuel ratio when adjusting the flame height which causes a relatively cooler burn

 

[GLC2005]

Thanks for the feed gate and cold start syndrome info. It was -31 Centigrade this morning outside but the shop was about 0. The stove was running. It's forecast to go to -5 or so outside later. Insulating the shop is on the to-do list.

 

[GLC2005]

Another question: What does the reset button do? The manual only tells how to use it when firing up the stove the first time. Nothing is really said about its use after that. Thanks.

 

[St_Earl]

it initiates the auger in it's start up mode. so more consecutive turns than when the stove is lit and running normally.
they have you use it when the stove is new so that the auger tube gets full so the stove can begin it's regular operation.

if you happen to empty the auger channel for any reason, say vacuuming it out or if you just plain forgot and let the hopper run out of pellets, it allows you to fill it up again and resume normal use.

 

[GLC2005]

Ah. So when you refill the auger I just have to press it once or should I do the start-press at 2 min-press again after 5 more min? The tech said something about a "fast feed mode" where he pressed it every minute until the pellets ignited.

 

[St_Earl]

when you hear pellets drop, then the auger tube is full.
in my opinion you'd only do this if the channel was empty or partially empty to begin with

i can't really comment on any fast feed mode. other than it sounds weird to me.
when i turn on my thermostat and "call for heat", that starts the auger up on it's initial startup cycle. where it dumps a goodly amount of pellets in the pot. the igniter is engaged at that point as well.
if the stove is set up correctly, and the auger channel is full, (as it should always normally be unless the hopper has been allowed to run out of pellets) the pellets delivered on start up *will* be enough to reach proof of fire and then normal burn.

 

[GLC2005]

Thanks. Do you ever get that "bridge" effect where pellets jam up and don't go into the auger? Do you douse anything special to break up the jam?

I've tried two brands of pellets. Though both are designated "premium" one brand produced a darker ash (black vs grey-beige) and more clinkers. I had to go with this brand as they were out of other brand.