Calling on Kuma Sequoia owners... (also BK Princess)

[kennyp2339]

The best difference I give you between a cat vs non cat is the ability for the cat to burn efficiently over lower temps, An epa tube stove has to burn a higher temp to get the clean reburn, if you have the sq footage this is a non issue, I like to use the analogy of chasing the heat curve with a tube stove if your operating it properly, you load it up, you get good flames, it heats up, you reduce the in coming air down to minimize the flames but still keep secondary reburn going the stove top temps cruise between 550 and 650 deg, nothing to it, but the problem is your getting a lot of heat (btu's) at once, so the burn only really lasts between 6-8 hours then the fire goes into the coaling stage and heat is limited.
With a cat (using my bk as an example) I load it, it lights off and I set my desired temp (through the air stat) and walk away, as long as the cat temp stays active Ill have a clean burn, if I need more heat I turn the stat up. My burn times effectively range from 8hrs a load (when night temps are in the single digits or lower) to 24 hrs when temps are in the upper 40's / 50's, my heat curve is fairly flat in that sense because the stove regulates the air to the fire box, the cat combustor is what makes my heat due to its placement along the top of the stove.
As far as the Kuma sequoia - it has a natural convection deck that is made to ozz hot air away from the stove, but I still think you would need a blower to give it that little boost.
Also since you want to install this or any stove into an existing fireplace, I would pick the stove that's easiest to clean with out pulling it out of the fireplace all the time, and like others have said, plan for an insulated liner (Sequoia uses an 8" liner, maybe a limited factor for you) and a block off plate

 

[jetsam]

Maybe someone could explain this statement. There must be some disadvantages (other than cost) to installing a cat stove that is too large.

Physical size isn't the issue, minimum burn rate is.

I wish my Princess was a lot larger- because the low burn rate is SO low, I could put, for example, easily 48 hours of wood into a 5 CF firebox, and my fireplace could hold that insert too

You probably won't see BK make that insert though, because not everyone has a big whonking fireplace.


Think of the firebox size as your gas tank. The Sequoia has a 40% bigger gas tank than the Princess, but it goes empty 40% sooner than the Princess when they're both burning low. The car analogy breaks down here, because this doesn't mean the Sequoia is less efficient (it may or may not be)- but assuming they have the same efficiency, the Sequoia is putting out a lot more heat on its lowest burn.

To put this another way, the Princess, on idle speed, consumes 0.10 CF/hr; the Sequoia's specs claim that it consumes 0.36 CF/hr. This comparison is skewed because I'm using my real world princess numbers against their marketing claims; I don't even know which direction they're skewed in, but it seems safe to assume that the Sequoia idles a whole lot higher than the Princess.

If you're trying to heat in warm weather, maybe this means an opened window, or small infrequent burns. Neither one is the end of the world, but I like to keep burning 24/7.

 

[rwhite]

I would be curious how the natural convection works. If it's what I'm picturing it requires a heat differential to work. I had a tube fireplace grate that claimed that. Worked great on startup. You could feel the air really coming out of the top tubes. As everything heated up evenly the flow became almost nonexistent.

 

[jetsam]

I would be curious how the natural convection works. If it's what I'm picturing it requires a heat differential to work. I had a tube fireplace grate that claimed that. Worked great on startup. You could feel the air really coming out of the top tubes. As everything heated up evenly the flow became almost nonexistent.

I was wondering about that too. The air intake appears to be on the bottom front of the stove, presumably the cat's on the top heating that area, so maybe the cool air entering on the bottom and the cat cooking on the top keeps it going.

As the OP said, hopefully someone who has one will show up to comment.

 

[Blazing]

I also love my princess insert but feel the square footage you have would be unrealistic for this stove. I'd vote get the biggest firebox you can.

 

[rwhite]

Read the kuma manual, but how is the burn rate controlled? If I read correctly it is a set burn rate. Is there any other air control? If that's the case, for coastal temps I would worry about getting cooked out of a room. The advantage of a BK would be thermostatic control. Or the non cat stove which would have secondary air control. If the seqouia is factory set can you "run it in second gear" or will a smaller fire just cause the air to adjust until temps are reached? I'd have a bunch of questions before I'd go all in on the seqouia. Kuma does have a satisfaction guarantee but even if they took it back you have an 8" liner which is not compatible with a lot of stoves.

 

[begreen]

Paging @KumaStoves or @kuma.jason to the front desk for Sequoia question.

 

[rwhite]

Went back and re-read the manual. Looks like it does have secondary air control so a smaller load shouldn't be a problem. I really think your down to aesthetics and cost and which is more important to you. Both companies seem to offer great customer service and great products. I read the 1 review on the seqouia and if you can keep a house warm in wind-blown god-forsaken Fairfield Idaho. It should work great on the coast. Cat vs noncat? Who knows?

 

[heavy hammer]

I have the sequoia free standing stove in my basement. The natural convection and the heat it puts out is incredible. The best burn time I have gotten is 16 hours but that is all in how you judge burn times. After 16 hours the stove temps were still over 200 with coals to easily get the next fire going. I usually get 8 to 10 hours before reloading, now that is with the stove still cranking at over 600 I just have been keeping it fed because the last couple weeks have been real cold. The firebox is actually more like 3 cubic feet once you take out the cat housing area. I have no complaints I love my kuma but I mainly burn hard wood locust oak hickory. I also like a very warm house 75 to 80, I'm sure the blaze king models are just as great since they have many happy owners. Jason from kuma did tell me that the sequoia does put out a lot of heat, he thought it might be to much for my house but I told him that I wanted a heating machine. There is a guy on here Bigdaddyvoodo I believe, he has the sequoia insert and he is very happy message him see if he can give you any advise.

 

[heavy hammer]

His name is BigBadVoodooDaddy

 

[kuma.jason]

Paging @KumaStoves or @kuma.jason to the front desk for Sequoia question.

Thanks for the page.

Today is a family day... I'll check in tomorrow from the office.

Jason

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[weatherguy]

I would go with the Sequoia over the Kuma Ashwood even in your climate. The princess insert is smaller than the princess free Stander. It's 2.54 cf, the new BK inserts are essentially the same size as the princess insert.

 

[JohnDeer]

I have the sequoia free standing stove in my basement. The natural convection and the heat it puts out is incredible. The best burn time I have gotten is 16 hours but that is all in how you judge burn times. After 16 hours the stove temps were still over 200 with coals to easily get the next fire going. I usually get 8 to 10 hours before reloading, now that is with the stove still cranking at over 600 I just have been keeping it fed because the last couple weeks have been real cold. The firebox is actually more like 3 cubic feet once you take out the cat housing area. I have no complaints I love my kuma but I mainly burn hard wood locust oak hickory. I also like a very warm house 75 to 80, I'm sure the blaze king models are just as great since they have many happy owners. Jason from kuma did tell me that the sequoia does put out a lot of heat, he thought it might be to much for my house but I told him that I wanted a heating machine. There is a guy on here Bigdaddyvoodo I believe, he has the sequoia insert and he is very happy message him see if he can give you any advise.

Hey heavy hammer. I'm concerned whether the Sequoia would uncontrollably overheat the primary great room it occupies, about 600 sq feet. My home is about 2600 sq feet, but ceiling vaults cause the cubic feet to rhyme with a typical 2800-2900 sq foot house having standard ceilings. How large is your home? Much past 74-75 degrees and my wife is crabbing.

 

[JohnDeer]

Think of the firebox size as your gas tank. The Sequoia has a 40% bigger gas tank than the Princess, but it goes empty 40% sooner than the Princess when they're both burning low. The car analogy breaks down here, because this doesn't mean the Sequoia is less efficient (it may or may not be)- but assuming they have the same efficiency, the Sequoia is putting out a lot more heat on its lowest burn.

 

[JohnDeer]

Think of the firebox size as your gas tank. The Sequoia has a 40% bigger gas tank than the Princess, but it goes empty 40% sooner than the Princess when they're both burning low. The car analogy breaks down here, because this doesn't mean the Sequoia is less efficient (it may or may not be)- but assuming they have the same efficiency, the Sequoia is putting out a lot more heat on its lowest burn.

Hey Jetsam,

Concerning this part of your message, my brain got wrapped around the axle of what you are trying to say. I'm just not getting it. So Sequoia has a 40% bigger firebox (i.e., 40% bigger gas tank), but "it goes empty 40% sooner than the Princess when they're both burning low".

How so?

Bringing efficiency into it doesn't help my understanding, unfortunately. I'm a wood stove freshman.

If the Sequoia burns down 40% faster, wouldn't it have to generate more heat in doing so by converting wood into fly ash, spent gases and heat? And if more heat (than the Princess) isn't the objective to keep from overheating my home, wouldn't one run the Sequoia at a lower burn level than the Princess--basically matching the Sequoia's heat heat output to the BK Princess' output? To a wood stove freshman like myself, it would seem like a bigger load in a bigger firebox wouldn't automatically equate to a 40% quicker burn in the Sequoia per btu of output. I'm undoubtedly misunderstanding. Thanks for any help (anyone, in case Jetsam is off line).

 

[begreen]

I may be a skeptic, but what would be helpful here is to have a measured comparison of useable firebox area between the two inserts, not the marketing literature.

 

[jetsam]

Hey Jetsam,

Concerning this part of your message, my brain got wrapped around the axle of what you are trying to say. I'm just not getting it. So Sequoia has a 40% bigger firebox (i.e., 40% bigger gas tank), but "it goes empty 40% sooner than the Princess when they're both burning low".

How so?

Bringing efficiency into it doesn't help my understanding, unfortunately. I'm a wood stove freshman.

If the Sequoia burns down 40% faster, wouldn't it have to generate more heat in doing so by converting wood into fly ash, spent gases and heat? And if more heat (than the Princess) isn't the objective to keep from overheating my home, wouldn't one run the Sequoia at a lower burn level than the Princess--basically matching the Sequoia's heat heat output to the BK Princess' output? To a wood stove freshman like myself, it would seem like a bigger load in a bigger firebox wouldn't automatically equate to a 40% quicker burn in the Sequoia per btu of output. I'm undoubtedly misunderstanding. Thanks for any help (anyone, in case Jetsam is off line).

As previously mentioned by myself and begreen, we're comparing real Princess numbers with brochure Sequoia numbers, so take all of them with a large of salt.

My numbers featured no BTUs... It was firebox size and burn time. I can't really measure BTUs in my house, but I can measure firebox size and burn time.

"Burn time" is a famously slippery number too, so increase your salt grain size. My definition is 'active cat, usable heat'. The Sequoia brochure's numbers could be overstated or understated by that yardstick- we need a Sequoia insert owner to figure that one out.

The Sequoia has a 40% bigger firebox because the Princess is about 2.5cf and the Sequoia is about 3.5cf.

The Sequoia (according to the admittedly poor data I am working with here) burns through its 3.5cf in 14 hours on the lowest setting, which happens to be around 60% of the Princess's 24 hour low burn time. Again, I have no idea whether or not the 14 hour figure is good, but I am in the midst of a 24+ hour burn at home right now (60° today!). With drier wood, I don't doubt that that insert could go 30 hours on low.

Bottom line, the data here is terrible but if the Sequoia brochure's numbers are anywhere near reality, the Princess has a much lower low burn than the Sequoia.

 

[JohnDeer]

Bottom line, the data here is terrible but if the Sequoia brochure's numbers are anywhere near reality, the Princess has a much lower low burn than the Sequoia.

Interesting. I'm guessing the Princess' lower burn rate and presumably somewhat smaller firebox equates to lower burn/lower heat potential (ergo, longer burn time) that would be useful for shoulder seasons. Basically, like being able to turn the heat lower. Which points to my opposite concern, that the Sequoia would be harder to modulate heat on the lower end and therefore tend to overheat the family room in my 2600 sq ft.

BigBadVooDooDaddy, who runs a Sequoia, is about to chime in soon. We've conversed by PM to initiate his contribution to this thread. Let's see what he has to say. Perhaps Jason at Kuma will have words also. I have an email into him. Nice guy. Very helpful.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

So, I don't know much regarding other stoves. It's been 2 years since I got my stove so newer models have come out. I would suggest you look into my post history and check out the writeup and review I've made for the Sequoia.

That being said here are some things to consider with this stove and the biggest one, literally, is the 8" liner that needs to be installed in the chimney. I'm in Seattle Area and you being in PNW as well, I can guarantee you that they will require a liner to be installed into your chimney. So the first step in this process is to have someone inspect your chimney and see if a liner can be installed, and if so, what size of a liner can you fit in there. Majority of the stoves use a 6" exhaust but Sequoia, together with a handful of other stoves, uses 8".

IF you can fit an 8" liner, I would say that Sequoia is your stove. It heats my 3000 SF house without any problems. As you know we've had a bit of a cold weather in November/December with temps in the 20s and I've kept the house at 74 degrees without any problems. I need to say this though, my house was built in 1981 and has 25 HUGE aluminum frame windows. If your house is newer, you're going to fare much better than I will.

As an insert the stove is awesome. I would definitely recommend the fan, at the highest setting it is a little bit loud but not so much that you can't carry on a normal conversation in the same room. I really like the efficiency and the burn time of the stove. With good hardwood (Alder, Birch, Maple or good sappy pine) I get about 10 hours of true burn time with the fan on full blast and the stove choked as far as it goes. Overall, they say 12 hours burn time which is about right as after 10 hours you get hot coals that are going to be burning up quickly. So if I load it full every 10 hours or so, I am golden.

Other than that, I clean it every 3 weeks or so. The stove is very efficient so if you burn it nice and hot (about 800-1,000 degrees) you'll have barely any ashes left. The other thing that I love about the Kuma stoves is their customer service. EVERYONE takes a service call there. I've talked to the Owner, I've talked to the Design Engineer that created Sequoia and few other people in the company. Their customer service is not matched by anyone.

Other than that, you'll have the same issues as any stove while getting it tuned in. Also, for that size of a home you'll need about a cord/month of burning maybe even more. So October-May might be around $3,000 in wood alone or even more. I've figured out a way to get free wood but it's time consuming, cumbersome and overall a pain as I have to cut it, stack it and then season it for a year so it requires a ton of space. I usually have about 10 cords around half of which are seasoned and another half in the process. I have a 1/3 acre so I can dedicate a space for it but if you don't have room you'll have to buy the wood which costs money. Even with all the free wood, I only use my stove when my heat pump can't work it alone. I've done the math and it's more cost effective for me to run the heat pump when it's 50 degrees outside and turn on the stove when the weather gets into the 30's and below. That is calculating my time and labor into getting the wood, cutting it, stacking it and then managing it year round. Using this strategy, my heating cost has gone down considerably without impacting my daily activities much.

I know you're concerned with the size of the stove... don't be. Ultimately you control the output of the stove. You don't have to load it full every time, you can also control the fan speed and the air flow. Overall, the stove is meant for homes from 1,500 to 3,500 SF. The other thing that I will do is actually run my furnace fan only when the stove is going. I have HEPA filtration in the furnace so it helps keep the air clean plus it distributes the heat evenly across the house without having one area feel more hot than others.

I hope this helps. If anyone has any questions please feel free to get in touch.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

And just a quick thing about Jason at Kuma... This guy is legit. I've talked to him a few times... about my Pewter Door I still didn't get... LOL but overall all the guys at Kuma are outstanding. Their customer service is unparalleled by anyone, PERIOD!

Hammer, I'm glad your stove is going well... Keep it up my friend!

 

[JohnDeer]

Very, very useful BBVD.

St. Helens, Oregon, is my locale, for any future stove shoppers who may be interested in climate-matching.

I have 22 acres with large outbuildings, so can stack wood wide, deep and under cover. Also have teenagers (for a few years) with strong backs.

Will no longer worry about stove size (Sequoia) at this point.

The 10-hour (real world) burn time of the Sequoia vs the roughly double burn time for the Blaze King Princess is interesting. The difference is not entirely academic, but the Princess' literature clearly aims that stove at homes up to 2,000 square feet--clearly smaller than the Sequoia.

You say that if I burn it nice and hot (800-1000 degrees) I'll barely have any ashes left. That's good. But also wondering if I burn hot like this whether the heat production will overheat the family room in which the insert will be placed.

Can you clarify, do you have the Sequoia insert, or the freestanding model?

 

[kuma.jason]

I may be a skeptic, but what would be helpful here is to have a measured comparison of useable firebox area between the two inserts, not the marketing literature.

The advertised 3.6 includes the space to the sides and front of the cat housing and comes directly from the EPA report for "Calculated Usable Firebox Volume". It may be more difficult to use those areas of the firebox, but it's possible.

 

[JohnDeer]

Omitting any volume above the lowest point of the cat housing, the Sequoia has exactly 3.0 ft3 of useable space. The advertised 3.6 (3.55) includes the space to the sides and front of the cat housing and comes directly from the EPA report for "Calculated Usable Firebox Volume".

Thanks, Jason. And thanks for your patience with my phone calls and emails over the past 2 weeks.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Omitting any volume above the lowest point of the cat housing, the Sequoia has exactly 3.0 ft3 of useable space. The advertised 3.6 (3.55) includes the space to the sides and front of the cat housing and comes directly from the EPA report for "Calculated Usable Firebox Volume".

I've figured out the way to load the stove while utilizing the side openings around the cat, not that big of a deal, and with the front I leave it open for air flow and window clarity.

 

[JohnDeer]

Do most people install a block-out plate at the bottom end of the masonry chimney in the vicinity of the former damper, or just a cap at the top?