can't get enouh heat in the house.

[Rugar]

No storage and boiler is operating at 195. supply at house is 180 and return back to boiler (still in house) is 171. 70 deg is the max I can get the house. I don't have my circulator hooked to the thermostat yet so both primary and secondary are running 24 hours. I did have a 20 deg difference between supply and return at barn before I closed the valve above the danfos to 90% shut. Do I not have enough baseboard to heat the house or something else. I would like to get to 72-75 deg.

On a beter note. I'm on my third fire with EKO25 and at 9 hours of operation I still have full boiler temp and full of hot coals level with top of refractory. I'm guessing that will give me at least an hour more.

 

[Nofossil]

With 180 degrees at the house and only a 9 degree drop through the baseboards, it sounds like you don't have near enough baseboard. Have you done any kind of heat load analysis?

 

[Eric Johnson]

Have you bled your system, especially the baseboards and any radiators? Are the baseboards hot?

 

[Duetech]

I don't understand the 15*f drop (1 or 2* drop should be all your seeing unless you have something else drawing heat) from the boiler to the house but 180*f should do the trick. My 40 is on the old controller and max is 178*f and it heats dhw before it gets to the forced air heat exchanger and will do 75* in the house. From the sound of things the 15* is what you need to get the temperatures you are looking for or more baseboard to compensate.

 

[Rugar]

Nofossil, What what do i need to do for a heat analisis. Old small two story house with kitchen and two side rooms (old porches). Total house is just over 1000 sq ft. Only insulation is in the ceiling on the upstairs rooms and a pink styrafome type sheet under vinal siding.

I plugged my thermostat into the controler and now the boiler runs at a lower temp (140-176 seems like). Now I'm really concerned about getting the house warm enough. The old gas boiler heated the house quicker.

Eric
The base boards are warm but not really hot.

Cave2k
There is a 1-2* drop from barn to house. There was a 9* drop when the boiler rested at 195. Since then I pluged the thermostat into the controler and now boiler runs cooler. When thermostat kicked boiler on I recieved a 13* drop from the baseboards. The system is running a long time to make much temp difference in the house.

 

[Rugar]

The house took 2-3 hours to raise from around 69 to 74. Supply water started in the 150's and went to the 160's. after the 2-3 hour time temp drop through base boards was 8 deg.

 

[flyingcow]

Is there a btu rating on the old gas furnace,if so what is it? I'm assuming that the gas furnace heated the same baseboard that your using now? You see where I'm going? I think you still need to do a heat study, but btu rating of the gas boiler will give a quick and dirty guess.

 

[Nofossil]

Nofossil, What what do i need to do for a heat analisis. Old small two story house with kitchen and two side rooms (old porches). Total house is just over 1000 sq ft. Only insulation is in the ceiling on the upstairs rooms and a pink styrafome type sheet under vinal siding.

I plugged my thermostat into the controler and now the boiler runs at a lower temp (140-176 seems like). Now I'm really concerned about getting the house warm enough. The old gas boiler heated the house quicker.

Eric
The base boards are warm but not really hot.

Cave2k
There is a 1-2* drop from barn to house. There was a 9* drop when the boiler rested at 195. Since then I pluged the thermostat into the controler and now boiler runs cooler. When thermostat kicked boiler on I recieved a 13* drop from the baseboards. The system is running a long time to make much temp difference in the house.

Slantfin has a tool that you can use to estimate your heat loss - there are links around here if your search for them, maybe also in the resources sticky. If you previously heated with gas, you can use your last year's gas consumption to calculate your heat load. If you're not getting enough heat, there are only a few possibilities:

1) You are losing lots of heat to the outside. Signs: Tropical plants flowering in January on your lawn. Common problem with poorly insulated buried plumbing going long distances to outside boilers.

2) Your boiler isn't generating enough heat. Signs: the boiler never reaches full temperature. Causes: fuel too wet or too large, boiler too small, boiler adjusted or operated improperly. Note: Eliminate #1 as a root cause before deducing #2.

3) You aren't transferring enough heat to the house. Signs: The boiler idles a lot. Family members are scowling. Causes: Water temp isn't high enough for the amount of baseboard / radiant / HX area, air bubbles or other flow restriction, circulator too small.

There are some other possibilities, but this covers a good majority of situations.

 

[Rugar]

The gas boiler always seemed to work ok. It would fire the boiler for five min run circulator aprox 20 min.
It is a Hydrotherm 100. Ratings are
Input 100,000 btu/hr
Output 80,000 btu/hr
Net rating 69,600 btu/hr

Gas boiler woud use 9-10 gallon propane per day. Last year was something like 1,000-1,200 gall.

EKO seems to be holding temp. Not sure yet if its idling much. I'm burning good dry hedge wood and a full load can get 10 hr burn times. I'm using 1in pex-al-pex in a 60ft run to the house with two wraps of reflective bubble wrap inside drain pipe and placed 3.5ft deep. Don't seem to have but a degree loss there. I'm using a Taco 007 pump for the run to the house.

Tell me what else I need

Thanks

 

[Nofossil]

Do you have a heat exchanger between the EKO loop and the house zones?

It really sounds like the EKO is producing WAY more heat than is getting into the house. There has to be a flow problem somewhere, and maybe more than one place.

The 15 degree drop between the boiler and the house speaks to a really slow flow rate since your insulation seems reasonable. However, the 9 degree drop through the house loads is way smaller than I'd expect. I see a couple of different sets of numbers. Could you post steady-state temps after everything has been running for a while?

You say the baseboards are not really hot. If 180 degree water is going through them, they should be really hot. Something's wrong there.

 

[Rugar]

There isn't a 15deg drop from the barn to house. Sorry if I was misleading. Earlier I was experiencing a 15 deg drop measuring from the pex connection leaving the boiler room to the pex connection returning at the boiler room. I have an infareed thermometer and it's fun. I do not have a heat exchanger. My pex runs into the house and plugs into the return manifold. Both supply and return from the Eko are close spaced tee's located just before the circulator going into the gas burner. All house return lines (3 zones) come to the same manifold but on the opposite end or (upstream) from the closely spaced tee's. So the taco 007 circulator in the eko sends water to the return manifold and the old B&G;circulator then picks up the flow and opperates the house as it always has. I have an aquastat just ahead of the manifold to turn on the B&G;circulator.

 

[Nofossil]

Thanks for the clarification. Could you get steady state temps before and after the 'closely spaced tees' on the house loop and on the boiler legs?

 

[flyingcow]

He's right, loosing something there. I have a 85,000 btu oil furnace that heated my house very well. Used about 800+gals a year. My baseboard was designed(I think) for 155/160 temp. When i have the wood boiler going and or my storage is up good and hot., i notice a huge diff when that 180++ water is running thru my baseboad. Curtains are moving, hats, coats, boots, and drying faster. Even after the rooms are heated up you can feel the diff when the system is cycling.

 

[leaddog]

Have you bled your system, especially the baseboards and any radiators? Are the baseboards hot?

sounds like an air lock. If baseboards aren't hot you have air and the water isn't getting thru.
leaddog

 

[ManiacPD]

Just to reiterate, I'd bleed the lines again.

FWIW, my boiler is in my essentially unheated garage (only heat is from the stovepipe), with 42 feet of insulated, 1.25" copper for both supply and return runs (84 feet total). I have a thermometer on both lines and I lose 6-8 degrees F with no demand. If a smaller zone (bathrooms, upstairs BRs, or DHW) comes on I'll see a 10-12 degree drop, or if my largest zone (1st floor) runs I get a 16-20 degree drop.

 

[flyingcow]

Just to reiterate, I'd bleed the lines again.

FWIW, my boiler is in my essentially unheated garage (only heat is from the stovepipe), with 42 feet of insulated, 1.25" copper for both supply and return runs (84 feet total). I have a thermometer on both lines and I lose 6-8 degrees F with no demand. If a smaller zone (bathrooms, upstairs BRs, or DHW) comes on I'll see a 10-12 degree drop, or if my largest zone (1st floor) runs I get a 16-20 degree drop.

For what its worth(hyjack the thread) my boiler is in a insulated room(inside garage), no heat other than boiler. 46 ft of 1 1/4" thermo pex under ground and in unheated space. 60 ft of uninsulated copper run above basement ceiling. 100ft from boiler to mechanical room. no noticeable loss.I'm talikng about supply from boiler to mechanical room. maybe a degree? Thermopex is cool to the touch on the outside.

 

[Rugar]

Nofossil

My temps ahead of the closely spaced tee's on the return manifold of the gass boiler are both 160 right now. The two legs at the eko are 160 supply and 149 return.


My house is heating evenly throughout all the rooms, at least the downstairs anyway. I would think that sugests air isn't a problem. Upstairs I know I have some air in the lines and it isn't easy to get out. I'm not too worried about heat up there right now anyway. However if upstairs isn't taking much heat thats more for downstairs. there are two loops downstairs and one for the entire upstairs.

 

[Rugar]

Maybe it is possible I have air in the baseboards. I'm getting 109-114 deg out of them. They are installed obviously on top of the floor and the plumbing goes down to the basement to the next baseboard. I can't find any bleed offs. I don't hear air girgle anywhere downstairs but maybe. Whats my best option to check. Shut everything down, drain the water, unsweat the joints and solder a bleed off in? Or is there something else