CFM suddenly quit burning...

[squngel]

Okay, my new large CFM stove and new straight-up flue burned beautifully at first. I put a bad log (half-seasoned and maybe a little damp) on a few days ago. Frustrated that it wouldn't burn, wanting to go to sleep, and not wanting to run through the house with a smouldering log, I *very stupidly* (because I am a stupid noob) tried to put it out by smothering it with half the contents of my ash pail and closing the damper. I awoke the next morning surprised to see the darn thing still "burning" under all that ash as coal with no flame.

Yes I know this was incredibly dumb. I need to fix what it did, though. At first everything seemed okay, but yesterday I noticed the stove wasn't drawing well, and when I put several sticks of bone-dry super-cured dogwood on last night and couldn't even get *that* to burn well (in the past this wood goes up like a torch and burns down to fine, fine ash--and quickly, but last night it just kind of smoldered into coal) I decided I had plugged the cap (from reading this forum) & must go up on roof to unclog it.
\
I called the reputable local fireplace establishment who just installed my new flue and asked them what tools I would need to take with me onto the roof to get the cap off because I only wanted to have to go up there once, and their response was as follows:
1.) It's impossible that you have a clogged cap after so little time and one bad fire. New wood stoves are just difficult. Burn it with the door open and try to burn it (the creosote, if there is any) off.
2.) I don't know what tools you need to pop off the cap, I'd have to look up the Metalbestos information. I think maybe you can just knock it with a screwdriver and get the creosote to fall back down the pipe (-why would I want to do this rather than remove it?
3.)(again...)New stoves are just hard to burn. I've been burning mine for three years and have never had the chimney cleaned out, because a new stove won't let you burn unseasoned wood, plus there's a secondary burn chamber, so it won't let you build up creosote. Because they're so hard to burn I usually have to leave the door open for my first fire.

So... I stupidly believed the guy, because I didn't want to face reality, and tried to light another fire. Close door, fire completely goes out. I felt around the air inlet to see if I could tell if it was clogged, but it seems to let air into the 2ndary combustion chamber instead of the main firebox (???-maybe I am wrong about this but that is what it looks like) so I can't figure out how to get access to it. Can anyone tell me how to check this? Also I suspect a trip to the roof is in order and I am not happy about it but if anyone can tell me what tool I need to get the cap off, and what I need to do with it after I get it off, I would sincerely apprediate it. Also, while I'm up there, should I run a burlap bag full of pine cones down the flue (after raising it from the stove and putting a plastic bag around it) to knock of creosote, or will the buildup likely be thin and not amenable to this kind of cleaning?

Yes, I am an idiot, if there is a flue-cleaning faq show me to it and I will read it. I didn't see a sticky.

 

[jtp10181]

Its usually hard to check if the air inlets are clogged. It is pretty hard to clog them in the first place unless its right inside the firebox and it just has ash in it.

Ignore what all those people said

If you want to get the cap off I would take with me a 1/4" and 5/16" nutdriver and also a Phillips head, maybe a flat would be good for a dual purpose pry-bar and just in case some idiot used flat screws. There might not even be any screws in the pipe, it might just twist lock on.

You could also take the baffle and blanket out of the stove, close the door, and then go up and just do as #2 suggested and let it fall into the stove.

 

[jpl1nh]

squngel, I tend to agree with your local stove shop that you're not going to clog your cap with one fire. You learned a "trick" that can be useful in holding coals in warmer weather so you don't have to re light your stove after not loading it for a while - smother the coals with ash, they'll last a long, long time. What specific CFM stove do you have? It sounds like you are somehow operating it incorrectly. You ARE an idiot, just like most all of us are when first learning to operate our new stoves!

 

[tradergordo]

How big was the smoldering log? I agree with the advice to ignore what the stoveshop guys told you. You can easily clog the cap with one smoldering fire in one night. Also, some caps have 'spark arrestor' screens that are too tight, and easily clog, I won't advise you to violate code, but if code doesn't say you need a spark arrestor screen, then just take it out and leave it out (assuming it is removable from your cap). Even if its not clogged, its worth your time to go check it out.

Speaking of which, just bring a screw driver up there, the cap most likely has a metal band at the bottom connecting it to the chimney piece below. Unscrew, and remove the band. Then it is probably twist locked to the chimney piece below, you can just "bear hug" it and twist to remove it, if its real hard, you are going the wrong direction

A wire brush will help you clean it. But you should run a chimney cleaning brush down the chimney too while you are up there, you can get one at lowes or home depot for 10 bucks, if you are too cheap (like me) to buy the poles for the brush, you can connect it to a cheap 10 foot pvc pipe, just buy the appropriate parts to screw them all together (all available at the hardware store). All the real creosote will be near the top most likely.

Oh, and if you want to "turn off" the stove, next time don't damper down, leave the damper open and the air up until its done burning. If you have a wet log that you shouldn't have put in there, you can prop it up (use a shovel) and stick dry wood (pallets are good) under it and on top of it and let it run on full air with the damper open.

 

[squngel]

jtp, I tend to agree with your local stove shop that you're not going to clog your cap with one fire. You learned a "trick" that can be useful in holding coals in warmer weather so you don't have to re light your stove after not loading it for a while - smother the coals with ash, they'll last a long, long time. What specific CFM stove do you have? It sounds like you are somehow operating it incorrectly. You ARE an idiot, just like most all of us are when first learning to operate our new stoves!

Jpl1nh, I have the large Century model sold by Lowe's last year, shown here :https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/12035/P15/

(sorry can't figure out how to insert link on this forum)

Honestly I don't know how I could possibly be operating it incorrectly since I am operatiing it exactly the same way I was a week ago when it was burning beautifully. Could be wrong, though.

 

[squngel]

How big was the smoldering log?

Not very big at all. Probably 4 x 3 1/2 x 9"

A wire brush will help you clean it. But you should run a chimney cleaning brush down the chimney too while you are up there, you can get one at lowes or home depot for 10 bucks, if you are too cheap (like me) to buy the poles for the brush, you can connect it to a cheap 10 foot pvc pipe, just buy the appropriate parts to screw them all together (all available at the hardware store). All the real creosote will be near the top most likely..

Ugh... already have burlap and pinecones... does this not actually work? I can pay $10 plus hardware parts but really really hate going to home improvement stores...

Also re: the spark arrestor screen, if it is this easy to clog (one bad small log means I can't even get bone-dry, cured, 1 1/2 inch dogwood rounds to burn) it needs to come off. Cuz if that's the case one icky log made my stove not burn *at all.*

 

[tradergordo]

That's a pretty small piece of wood. Hard to say if you clogged or its something else, I'd not worry about going to get the cleaning brush immediately (but you will need it eventually so get it the next time you are at the hardware store, and no, the redneck special - burlap and pinecones is not a good idea especially when the real thing is very inexpensive). For now, just go up there and have a quick look, you probably won't even have to remove the cap to see if its clogged, it will be obvious. If it is clogged, then you can go get your cleaning supplies. If the spark arrestor is clogged, I'd get rid of it personally. I know other people here only put it in during the spring/summer to keep birds and squirrels out of the chimney and then remove it for burn season.

How big was the smoldering log?

Not very big at all. Probably 4 x 3 1/2 x 9"

A wire brush will help you clean it. But you should run a chimney cleaning brush down the chimney too while you are up there, you can get one at lowes or home depot for 10 bucks, if you are too cheap (like me) to buy the poles for the brush, you can connect it to a cheap 10 foot pvc pipe, just buy the appropriate parts to screw them all together (all available at the hardware store). All the real creosote will be near the top most likely..

Ugh... already have burlap and pinecones... does this not actually work? I can pay $10 plus hardware parts but really really hate going to home improvement stores...

Also re: the spark arrestor screen, if it is this easy to clog (one bad small log means I can't even get bone-dry, cured, 1 1/2 inch dogwood rounds to burn) it needs to come off. Cuz if that's the case one icky log made my stove not burn *at all.*

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If you go up there, bring a small crescent wrench too. I'd hate to have to go all the way up and find out I needed a wrench.

Can you burn one of those compressed sawdust and wax logs? That would let you know if it was your wood.

Matt

 

[squngel]

Something else just occurred to me. At some point during the past few days I recall hearing a pretty loud "clunk" sound that seemed to emanate from the flue somewhere above the main floor. It was just a single "clunk" but unlike any other noise my stove or flue normally make.

Could it be possible that something up there actually fell down into the flue and is blocking air flow? Are there any parts up there that the installers may have forgotten to put screws into or something?

This may sound ridiculous but I had someone come and replace the belt on my washing machine once and he actually forgot to attach it, so when I started up the washer after the "repair" it still didn't work.

 

[jpl1nh]

Have you cleaned out the excess ash? I leave an inch or so in cause it helps the fire burn better. Starting with small kindling? Have air control open? Basic procedures you probably already know but it's kind of along the line sof the "is it plugged in?' question line.

 

[squngel]

If you go up there, bring a small crescent wrench too. I'd hate to have to go all the way up and find out I needed a wrench.

Can you burn one of those compressed sawdust and wax logs? That would let you know if it was your wood.

Matt

You mean a creosote log or just a man-made easy-to-burn log? Trust me, it's not the wood. This is standing dead dogwood, thoroughly cured, completely dry. This stuff usually makes a scary hot fire when it burns. Honestly having it go out on me when I close the door is like having a pyrex full of flaming lighter fluid extinguish itself.

 

[squngel]

Have you cleaned out the excess ash? I leave an inch or so in cause it helps the fire burn better. Starting with small kindling? Have air control open? Basic procedures you probably already know but it's kind of along the line sof the "is it plugged in?' question line.

Clean ash pan daily with spade-- don't even use ash drawer. Yes starting with small kindling, it is going out. Yes damper completely open. I wish it were that simple (and it easily could have been, so thanks for the suggestions.)

 

[tradergordo]

You can always unscrew the flue, pull it up, and have a look down into the stove to see if anything fell down the chimney (it would seem very unlikely though). You kind of should do this anyway to properly clean your chimney. Some people let all the junk fall back into the stove but that is generally a bad idea with modern stoves, you don't want any crud or even ash inside your secondary combustion chambers or top baffles. So to clean the chimney you should disconnect the flue from the stove, lift up, put a bag over the end of the flue, tape it off so no dust gets into your house, then run the cleaning pole/brush down the chimney/flue from the top. This method also lets you see exactly how much crud you had in your chimney when you are done, which will let you know how often you need to sweep in the future.

p.s. For what its worth, based on your description, it DOES sound like your cap is clogged.

Something else just occurred to me. At some point during the past few days I recall hearing a pretty loud "clunk" sound that seemed to emanate from the flue somewhere above the main floor. It was just a single "clunk" but unlike any other noise my stove or flue normally make.

Could it be possible that something up there actually fell down into the flue and is blocking air flow? Are there any parts up there that the installers may have forgotten to put screws into or something?

This may sound ridiculous but I had someone come and replace the belt on my washing machine once and he actually forgot to attach it, so when I started up the washer after the "repair" it still didn't work.

 

[jtp10181]

You can also just take out a few baffle tubes and and the board and insulation with most stoves. Can sometimes be a lot easier than taking the flue apart.

 

[Jimbob]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/12035/P15/
I fixed the link you posted.

 

[squngel]

You can also just take out a few baffle tubes and and the board and insulation with most stoves. Can sometimes be a lot easier than taking the flue apart.

It sounds more difficult, actually. Course I haven't taken the flue apart yet so maybe you're right, but it's a telescoping flue so I don't know why it would be hard ???

 

[squngel]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/12035/P15/
I fixed the link you posted.

Thank you for performing this valuable service :cheese:

 

[Jimbob]

I felt around the air inlet to see if I could tell if it was clogged, but it seems to let air into the 2ndary combustion chamber instead of the main firebox (???-maybe I am wrong about this but that is what it looks like) so I can't figure out how to get access to it. Can anyone tell me how to check this?

On the stove pictured in the above link, since the air control is on top, you should be able to look behind the tin lip above the door and see the primary air inlet plate. You should notice a slot (or 2) opening and closing when you look up there.
The secondary air is actually taken in at the bottom rear of the stove. You can see that inlet if you lie on the floor, and look up at the bottom of the stove, behind the pedestal.
If you look inside the firebox, you should notice a steel channel running up the back wall, that is what brings heated air up to the baffle.
At least that is how it was on the Century stove I used to have.

 

[jpl1nh]

Something else just occurred to me. At some point during the past few days I recall hearing a pretty loud “clunk” sound that seemed to emanate from the flue somewhere above the main floor. It was just a single “clunk” but unlike any other noise my stove or flue normally make.
Could it be possible that something up there actually fell down into the flue and is blocking air flow? Are there any parts up there that the installers may have forgotten to put screws into or something?

Add shotgun to the tools you should bring up to the roof :ahhh: Tried all the easy stuff, time to take a look down the stack. Have back up near by!

 

[squngel]

I felt around the air inlet to see if I could tell if it was clogged, but it seems to let air into the 2ndary combustion chamber instead of the main firebox (???-maybe I am wrong about this but that is what it looks like) so I can't figure out how to get access to it. Can anyone tell me how to check this?

On the stove pictured in the above link, since the air control is on top, you should be able to look behind the tin lip above the door and see the primary air inlet plate. You should notice a slot (or 2) opening and closing when you look up there.
The secondary air is actually taken in at the bottom rear of the stove. You can see that inlet if you lie on the floor, and look up at the bottom of the stove, behind the pedestal.
If you look inside the firebox, you should notice a steel channel running up the back wall, that is what brings heated air up to the baffle.
At least that is how it was on the Century stove I used to have.

Okay, covered myself in soot (again!) investigating this. I can get my fingers up and feel the hole that the air inlet opens and closes. It is just to the left of the draft control lever. What is strange is that I don't see how it lets air into the stove, because there is a metal plate behind it that that covers the top 3 iinches or so of the front of the stove and seems to run the entire width of it. I cannot feel any openings anywhere around this plate. It is covered with soot, though, so if it has perforations or something in it to allow air intake, then they could well be clogged.

So I was wrong about the intake going into the 2ndary burn chamber. I assumed this because I didn't realize that the chamber didn't occupy the entire top portion of the stove. When I felt up the inside of the stove above the door the first time and couldn't feel the air intake hole that I could feel from the outside of the stove, I wrongly assumed this was because the intake hole was too high to be in the main firebox. I didn't notice that the auxillary burn chamber didn't come all the way to the front, and I didn't notice the metal plate behind the intake.

There certainly is plenty of soot on the inside of the plate and also behind the baffles on the "ceiling." It is positively furry in there.

 

[Jimbob]

Okay, covered myself in soot (again!) investigating this. I can get my fingers up and feel the hole that the air inlet opens and closes. It is just to the left of the draft control lever. What is strange is that I don't see how it lets air into the stove, because there is a metal plate behind it that that covers the top 3 iinches or so of the front of the stove and seems to run the entire width of it. I cannot feel any openings anywhere around this plate. It is covered with soot, though, so if it has perforations or something in it to allow air intake, then they could well be clogged.

So I was wrong about the intake going into the 2ndary burn chamber. I assumed this because I didn't realize that the chamber didn't occupy the entire top portion of the stove. When I felt up the inside of the stove above the door the first time and couldn't feel the air intake hole that I could feel from the outside of the stove, I wrongly assumed this was because the intake hole was too high to be in the main firebox. I didn't notice that the auxillary burn chamber didn't come all the way to the front, and I didn't notice the metal plate behind the intake.

There certainly is plenty of soot on the inside of the plate and also behind the baffles on the "ceiling." It is positively furry in there.

Would that plate be the air wash lip ?

 

[squngel]

[Would that plate be the air wash lip ?

Probably. Now I see that it does curve out and there is a very narrow opening at the bottom of it. So it lets air out in a thin stream onto the top of the door? I can't tell whether closing the door covers the opening or not, since obviously I can't see it once the door is closed.

 

[Jimbob]

Yep that's the air wash. It directs the intake air over the glass, to keep it clean. On that stove, probably all the primary air comes in that way.

 

[squngel]

Yep that's the air wash. It directs the intake air over the glass, to keep it clean. On that stove, probably all the primary air comes in that way.

Well, then you have ruled this out as a potential cause of the problem. Thank you sir!

 

[Codeman812]

If it is the same model as mine ( I got it at Lowe's) then there is primary air coming out in the center at just below the door as well.

Yep that's the air wash. It directs the intake air over the glass, to keep it clean. On that stove, probably all the primary air comes in that way.