Chimney Liner-Insulated or Non Insulated with a Blaze King

[webby3650]

When I clean an insulated liner I can almost always tell exactly where the insulation stops about a foot from the top. The top is typically dirtier anyway, but there's a line of heavier build up where the insulation stops.

 

[kinetic711]

Here's an example. Mine is currently running on a medium low setting. The flue temps are running "too low" for most stoves. The stove is still full of unburnt wood but is still able to run cleanly and draft well if its installed properly.

My smoke dragon insert is currently running at a stovetop temp of 450F and a flue temp of 252F. Very similar to your's. I don't have any problem with draft or creosote buildup. I do sweep the chimney and clean the cap, 3 or 4 times per year.

 

[webby3650]

Mine is in a real world situation and burns as low or lower than yours and keeps my house warm. .

I wasn't saying yours isn't a real world experience. I was referring to looking at absolute best ever controlled lab test numbers. I'm not sure what makes you think your Woodstock will run lower flue temps than a Bk? Doesn't matter really. The OP is asking about his Blaze King.. I'm trying to offer him guidance accordingly.

 

[webby3650]

My smoke dragon insert is currently running at a stovetop temp of 450F and a flue temp of 252F. Very similar to your's. I don't have any problem with draft or creosote buildup. I do sweep the chimney and clean the cap, 3 or 4 times per year.

With no smoke? 252 on a probe thermometer? I clean once annually, but it's just out of habit. Just a little powder is all I get.

 

[kinetic711]

With no smoke? 252 on a probe thermometer? I clean once annually, but it's just out of habit. Just a little powder is all I get.

Oh no, there is some smoke; this insert is 33 years old, after all. The flue temp is taken with an IR gun, and I can only get a reading at the flue collar, so maybe not the most accurate.

 

[JA600L]

Webby3650, thank you for the pictures. Just to ad some more interesting information to the discussion, I found this.
The math is wrong in answer 12, but non the less interesting.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...tainless-steel-chimney-flue-really-need-insul

This kind of hits me where I'm at. For me to spend a lot of money and get to that point is it really going to gain me that much? I used modern stoves on just the clay liner alone and got very minimal buildup before I put the liner in. Now I'm even better than I was.

I think the stove pipe is the more critical element. Using double wall stovepipe and sealing all joints ensures that you don't get buildup in the pipe. So even if a flame makes it up the stove pipe a bit, if there is nothing there to catch it's not going to light the chimney. I get a very light soot on my stovepipe but no creosote. I did push roxul into my horizontal section where it goes through the block wall.

I also considered dropping rock wool in between the liner and the masonry. Nobody here can say that it wouldn't work. It's a code violation and is not approved for chimneys doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

I figure I'm already violating code by not having the liner wrapped what's it matter if I drop roxul in there . Atleast I would be better off.

 

[webby3650]

Oh no, there is some smoke; this insert is 33 years old, after all. The flue temp is taken with an IR gun, and I can only get a reading at the flue collar, so maybe not the most accurate.

Then why drop $3K on a Blaze King? Sounds like your doing good!
Your surface reading is only about 1/2 of the internal temp IIRC.

 

[kinetic711]

Then why drop $3K on a Blaze King? Sounds like your doing good!
Your surface reading is only about 1/2 of the internal temp IIRC.

The slightly used BK Princess insert that I bought was significantly less than $3000. My problem is, I only get between 4-6 hour burntimes, and I finally found something that would give much longer burns. Also, I burn between 20-25 face cords annually, and am looking forward to a huge reduction in wood consumption. Lastly, it is difficult to get ahead on wood cutting, splitting and stacking, when you are constantly burning up your supply.

 

[Hezz]

I have an uninsulated liner on my Princess insert and all seems well, but the chimney is in the middle of the house.

 

[webby3650]

The slightly used BK Princess insert that I bought was significantly less than $3000. My problem is, I only get between 4-6 hour burntimes, and I finally found something that would give much longer burns. Also, I burn between 20-25 face cords annually, and am looking forward to a huge reduction in wood consumption. Lastly, it is difficult to get ahead on wood cutting, splitting and stacking, when you are constantly burning up your supply.

I know, that was kinda my point. You compared your running stats to mine. Although they may be similar at the moment you looked, they aren't comparable most of the time. Mine is still holding the same temps that I posted above. It will barely change for the next 8 hours or so. I'm heating 2200 square feet with 9 face cords a year.

 

[kinetic711]

I know, that was kinda my point. You compared your running stats to mine. Although they may be similar at the moment you looked, they aren't comparable most of the time. Mine is still holding the same temps that I posted above. It will barely change for the next 8 hours or so. I'm heating 2200 square feet with 9 face cords a year.

That's what I wanted to hear! I reloaded an hour after I posted those temps. I am really looking forward to next winter and less stoking.

 

[webby3650]

That's what I wanted to hear! I reloaded an hour after I posted those temps. I am really looking forward to next winter and less stoking.

You are gonna be loving it!
I'm on 24 hour cycles right now. Could definitely be doing 30 hours, but I'm trying to burn up some ugly odd shaped pieces.

 

[kinetic711]

Thank you for all the advice and opinions, guys and girls. I am really looking forward to getting this insert installed.
I will post pics and a review, once I do.

 

[weatherguy]

I had the princess insert on an uninsulated liner but it was also in the middle of the house. I would have to go on the roof and clean the top part halfway through the year or it would clog. I'm burning a PH now and I went up on the roof at the halfway point and there was barely anything. Even at the end of the year there was very little to clean. If I was to install a princess insert again I would insulate the liner.

 

[webby3650]

I had the princess insert on an uninsulated liner but it was also in the middle of the house. I would have to go on the roof and clean the top part halfway through the year or it would clog. I'm burning a PH now and I went up on the roof at the halfway point and there was barely anything. Even at the end of the year there was very little to clean. If I was to install a princess insert again I would insulate the liner.

The chimney being inside of the envelope of the home will make a huge difference. But, if clearances weren't maintained when it was built and you had a flue fire things might not be be so good. You might find yourself thinking of the old classic line from a whispering Bill Anderson song . 'boy you'd a whished you had' insulated that liner...

 

[weatherguy]

The chimney being inside of the envelope of the home will make a huge difference. But, if clearances weren't maintained when it was built and you had a flue fire things might not be be so good. You might find yourself thinking of the old classic line from a whispering Bill Anderson song . 'boy you'd a whished you had' insulated that liner...

Clearances are all met and it goes through the center of the house but I would have insulated anyway, hopefully it would have cut down on the cleaning, at minimum I should have put some insulation at the top.

 

[webby3650]

That's what I wanted to hear! I reloaded an hour after I posted those temps. I am really looking forward to next winter and less stoking.

Just reloaded the stove without striking a match! Same load that was in there when I posted on Sunday. It fired right up!

 

[kinetic711]

Just reloaded the stove without striking a match! Same load that was in there when I posted on Sunday. It fired right up!

Sure, rub it in, lol! I've reloaded 10 or 11 times since then. I can't wait to get the BK Princess installed.