Chimney sweep failed my chimney?

[Hegnan]

We had a chimney sweep come out and they gave an inspection with the cleaning. Long story short, they recommended we not use the chimney until it's repaired. The repair suggested was for them to install a custom chimney liner. Their logic sounded rational however a few of my neighbors are saying that if we are strapped for cash, the current chimney is not in that bad of shape.

I will attach the picture they failed it on and a picture I took with my phone from the roof aiming down the chimney. The chimney is a 6 x10 terracotta liner but it's a very tight 6 inches, more like 5 7/8" so I don't think I can run my own liner from a big box store kit.

 

[EbS-P]

Is this for an open fireplace?

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Couple things- looks like there are some gaps in the clay liner you have. That and looks like some glazed creosote in some of the clay.
Their recommendations for a stainless liner makes sense. But- just make sure the creosote is gone before they install new liner. They should do that but make sure they do. Also, make sure new liner is insulated.
Another option is to remove the clay liner (may not be enough room to install insulated liner- and that would take care of the creosote issue.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ok, so we have a cracked liner and possibly missing mortar in what looks like chimney that had a lot of creosote seeping into the cracks and crevices.

What’s the worst that can happen?

I’m not sure I’d want to chance what a chimney fire would do with my family in the house.

 

[begreen]

If the goal is to use this for a wood stove, then an oval liner is one option. Another is to bust out the tiles to fit a 6" round liner.

 

[bholler]

Honestly those tiles are glazed bad enough and have enough gaps I would want to remove them regardless

 

[Hegnan]

We were using a wood stove, ran it for about a month before the Chimney Sweep came. We have 3 carbon monoxide detectors throughout the house, spaced according to our local fire inspector. They haven't registered anything but I've been told they only go off after it's already a bad situation. Smoke detectors hard wired to every room and hallway but I've been told that a chimney fire burns so hot that the alarm will just be to tell us to run for our lives, say goodbye house. I've gone into the attic when the stove was running, no smells, no seeping smoke but who knows what could happen in the long run.

1st time homeowners so it's hard to distinguish hyperbole from commons sense. Some of the guys up here will burn anything, out of anything and not think twice, I try to shay away from those types advice. I really liked the advice of the Chimney sweep but they want 5 grand for the job and won't touch it unless I put 2 grand down up front.

 

[bholler]

We were using a wood stove, ran it for about a month before the Chimney Sweep came. We have 3 carbon monoxide detectors throughout the house, spaced according to our local fire inspector. They haven't registered anything but I've been told they only go off after it's already a bad situation. Smoke detectors hard wired to every room and hallway but I've been told that a chimney fire burns so hot that the alarm will just be to tell us to run for our lives, say goodbye house. I've gone into the attic when the stove was running, no smells, no seeping smoke but who knows what could happen in the long run.

1st time homeowners so it's hard to distinguish hyperbole from commons sense. Some of the guys up here will burn anything, out of anything and not think twice, I try to shay away from those types advice. I really liked the advice of the Chimney sweep but they want 5 grand for the job and won't touch it unless I put 2 grand down up front.

What you have is definitely bad I would not burn through that if it was my house

 

[Hegnan]

I appreciate all the advice, we're not going to use it, I'm either going to work out a deal with the company that swept the chimney or call around for a possible better price. The company we went through does warranty it for life and they have great reviews so I trust them, it's just a matter of sticker shock, in the long run, it's probably not that bad of price for the peace of mind. For those wondering their solution, they are recommending a cast-in-place poured liner.

 

[bholler]

I appreciate all the advice, we're not going to use it, I'm either going to work out a deal with the company that swept the chimney or call around for a possible better price. The company we went through does warranty it for life and they have great reviews so I trust them, it's just a matter of sticker shock, in the long run, it's probably not that bad of price for the peace of mind. For those wondering their solution, they are recommending a cast-in-place poured liner.

I would not recommend cast in place for a woodstove at all. They simply don't hold up that well

 

[Hegnan]

They did have another option to install a stainless steel liner and then insulate it with vermiculite. Not sure if that's a no-go idea too. At this point I'll call around for a 2nd opinion, we are in NH on the Vermont line so there are a few companies that do this kind of work. I'd dont have the tools to remove the glazed creosote or hammer out the terracotta, I will make sure I add those questions to any estimate or ideas.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

They should do steel liner with insulation wrap. The vermiculite wont give you the coverage all around all parts of liner most likely.

 

[bholler]

They did have another option to install a stainless steel liner and then insulate it with vermiculite. Not sure if that's a no-go idea too. At this point I'll call around for a 2nd opinion, we are in NH on the Vermont line so there are a few companies that do this kind of work. I'd dont have the tools to remove the glazed creosote or hammer out the terracotta, I will make sure I add those questions to any estimate or ideas.

Insulated stainless is the way to go. But if I were doing the job I would take that clay out. I can almost guarantee that there is tons of creosote outside those liners

 

[Hegnan]

After the answers on here and watching a few videos, I think there is a good chance I could smash out the terracotta lining on my own. I am a residential carpenter by trade and I've smashed a lot of things in my years, even some surgical extractions where the homeowner would like us to control our collateral damage. I think smashing out the terracotta, removing the glazed creosote and other remnants and then running and insulted stainless steel chimney liner seems like the way to go.

What tool is best for smashing the terracotta while minimalizing damage to the brick chimney? Some videos have a spinning blade, others have a spinning hammer. It's a 29ft chimney with a clean out door at the bottom, if I can smash it and have it all fall in I can remove it from the basement clean out door.

 

[bholler]

Chimney Clay Tile Breaker and Rods Kit Rental - Remove Clay Flue Tile

A Rotary Tile Breaking Tool speeds up the process of removing clay flue tiles. Our clay tile breaker rental kits come complete with rods & tile breaker.

www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

 

[spudman99]

Just a thought as if you are handy maybe this is of some assistance. I removed my 30' clay terra cotta by myself and installed the insulated liner. Below is the thread I posted.

Starting my Liner Install

Well the day is finally here. I picked up a BK Princess Insert on Thursday along with a liner and insulation kit. On Saturday I set up my ladders and roof jacks to begin my terra cotta break out. I am not showing the ladder photographs because I know it would send Bholler into cardiac...

www.hearth.com

Admittedly, what I did was probably dangerous, but I was comfortable and tried to take precautions. I fabricated everything by myself and it was way cheaper than purchased materials. Clearly not everyone has the tools or stupidity to do what I did, but it is possible.

 

[Hegnan]

The spinning chain-hammer thing looks like a great idea, my first thought was to attach a blue cold steel chisel to a threaded pole and chisel a few feet down, then attach another length of rod and chisel down some more, keep adding length to the pole as I go. I can imagine after 29ft my arms would probably hate me. My question is, if the spinning chain hammer can easily smash terracotta, what stops it from chipping away brick? I guess if I wrap the steel liner and insulate it properly and cap it properly, a few chips on the inside of the brick probably don't mean much? Don't get me wrong, I'm going to try my best to only shatter the terracotta and try to use enough control not to chip the brick.

 

[begreen]

Here's what the process looks like. It's an oddly satisfying video.

 

[bholler]

The spinning chain-hammer thing looks like a great idea, my first thought was to attach a blue cold steel chisel to a threaded pole and chisel a few feet down, then attach another length of rod and chisel down some more, keep adding length to the pole as I go. I can imagine after 29ft my arms would probably hate me. My question is, if the spinning chain hammer can easily smash terracotta, what stops it from chipping away brick? I guess if I wrap the steel liner and insulate it properly and cap it properly, a few chips on the inside of the brick probably don't mean much? Don't get me wrong, I'm going to try my best to only shatter the terracotta and try to use enough control not to chip the brick.

Yes if you stay in one place with it for to long you could damage the chimney structure. But I haven't hurt one yet after breaking out hundreds of liners

 

[ExxWhy]

Wow, wish mine went like that a few years ago when I did the house chimney. It's definitely a doable job for a handy person.

 

[cahaak]

Heck, that almost looks like fun.

 

[bholler]

Heck, that almost looks like fun.

Not exactly lol

 

[Hegnan]

My neighbor brought up an interesting question. He wants to know what happens if the clay falls in on itself and get's wedged half way down? I imagine I'd just have to shove something down there to break it up. His rationale is that the clay liner is not always going to break apart into small pieces, that it will most likely fall in huge chunks and if they twist, could easily stack in on themselves without reaching the clean out.

 

[begreen]

The speed and technique used will take care of this. It happens in the video. The sweeper lowers the buster alongside of the hung piece and gives it a burst to break that piece into smaller bits, then proceeds taking out the next tile.

 

[bholler]

My neighbor brought up an interesting question. He wants to know what happens if the clay falls in on itself and get's wedged half way down? I imagine I'd just have to shove something down there to break it up. His rationale is that the clay liner is not always going to break apart into small pieces, that it will most likely fall in huge chunks and if they twist, could easily stack in on themselves without reaching the clean out.

Yes that can happen and it can make for a long day.

Most of the time I can be done with a breakout in an hour maybe 2. But then there are ones that take multiple days.