joedec said:Can anyone recommed a manufacturer of a good commercial stove. I'm looking to heat our 6000 s.f. woodworking shop. Any replies appreciated.
Highbeam said:Does the airborn wood dust have the potential to explode just as the airborn grain dust can burst into flames in a grain elevator? I would rather have a woodstove in a garage than in a woodshop.
Gooserider said:Just in the spirit of recycling and making use of what's available, I'd consider getting a stove or furnace that can burn your sawdust and other scraps in addition to other fuels of some sort - possibly something like a Sedore. I think the semi-OWB idea is also good - get a furnace and put it in an outbuilding or addition... It would be outdoors and burn wood, but not be critter we all love to hate. I agree it sounds more like a furnace size application than a pellet stove.
BTW, my local small engine (lawn tractors, chainsaw, etc.) shop heats with a pellet stove inside his small shop - one can question the wisdom considering that he has a lot of gas getting spilled and such, but he's been in business for years, and hasn't blown up yet...
Gooserider
UncleRich said:Highbeam said:Does the airborn wood dust have the potential to explode just as the airborn grain dust can burst into flames in a grain elevator? I would rather have a woodstove in a garage than in a woodshop.
There is a potential for fire and explosion of wood dust, but that is very limited as compared to a grain elevator. It is most simply put that the concentration necessary to explode is so high that you can't breathe in the silo or the shop. I have been in shops where the dust was thick and uncomfortable to breathe and no concern for the concentration affecting the employees.
Every couple of years I have a near panic attack when I discover in the nooks and crannies of the shop to find build of of dust, but it is not explosive. The use of a wood stove, or a pellet stove needs attention, but is not impossible. If dust is collected from machinery and the chips and “frass” from machining are cleaned up, it is very reasonable to use pellets to heat. Problems arise when cleanliness is ignored.
The best solution is to have the heating source in a separate room with it's own source of fresh air. My last shop the furnace was in an attached shed and the fresh air supply for combustion came from outside. The cold air return was at waist high and split half recycled, half fresh. Worked great.
Currently I use a pellet stove. In the main part of the shop. It is raised 16 inches off the floor the bottom of the firebox is at 28 inches. It's located about at least two feet from combustibles and at least 6 inches from the sheetrock walls. (Specs say it can be one inch away.) It is in the machine area of the shop, there are several dust collector ports near by and an ambient air cleaner above and about 4 feet away. I direct vent and I have an OAK. It was spooky for a while, but I am very comfortable with the set up. The air cleaner acts as a nice ceiling fan.
I do have two “paint safes” with the flammable chemicals and paints in them. I have these in a separate room, it has a raised threshold (like an air dam) and a tight fitting door. The reason is to prevent the migration of chemicals across the floor. I do use some that are not flammable, but combined with heat can be corrosive to ferrous metals and will pit aluminum. Those are used in a separate room with no heat.
The problem with a garage is the flammables in vehicles and equipment are in tanks that you can not seal and can build up unnoticed to an explosive level. That is why wood stove and pellet stoves are specifically banned from installation in a garage. Check back over posts about shop installations on the forums. Raising them 24 inches off the floor adds safety, and putting them in a separate space is better. There are other members here that can add a great deal to this.
Warren said:UncleRich said:Highbeam said:Does the airborn wood dust have the potential to explode just as the airborn grain dust can burst into flames in a grain elevator? I would rather have a woodstove in a garage than in a woodshop.
There is a potential for fire and explosion of wood dust, but that is very limited as compared to a grain elevator. It is most simply put that the concentration necessary to explode is so high that you can't breathe in the silo or the shop. I have been in shops where the dust was thick and uncomfortable to breathe and no concern for the concentration affecting the employees.
Every couple of years I have a near panic attack when I discover in the nooks and crannies of the shop to find build of of dust, but it is not explosive. The use of a wood stove, or a pellet stove needs attention, but is not impossible. If dust is collected from machinery and the chips and “frass” from machining are cleaned up, it is very reasonable to use pellets to heat. Problems arise when cleanliness is ignored.
The best solution is to have the heating source in a separate room with it's own source of fresh air. My last shop the furnace was in an attached shed and the fresh air supply for combustion came from outside. The cold air return was at waist high and split half recycled, half fresh. Worked great.
Currently I use a pellet stove. In the main part of the shop. It is raised 16 inches off the floor the bottom of the firebox is at 28 inches. It's located about at least two feet from combustibles and at least 6 inches from the sheetrock walls. (Specs say it can be one inch away.) It is in the machine area of the shop, there are several dust collector ports near by and an ambient air cleaner above and about 4 feet away. I direct vent and I have an OAK. It was spooky for a while, but I am very comfortable with the set up. The air cleaner acts as a nice ceiling fan.
I do have two “paint safes” with the flammable chemicals and paints in them. I have these in a separate room, it has a raised threshold (like an air dam) and a tight fitting door. The reason is to prevent the migration of chemicals across the floor. I do use some that are not flammable, but combined with heat can be corrosive to ferrous metals and will pit aluminum. Those are used in a separate room with no heat.
The problem with a garage is the flammables in vehicles and equipment are in tanks that you can not seal and can build up unnoticed to an explosive level. That is why wood stove and pellet stoves are specifically banned from installation in a garage. Check back over posts about shop installations on the forums. Raising them 24 inches off the floor adds safety, and putting them in a separate space is better. There are other members here that can add a great deal to this.
Sorry Rich, but your wrong here. I know of a commercial wood shop in Endicott NY that burned down twice, both times due to an explosion from wood dust and a wood burning heater.
UncleRich said:Gooserider said:Just in the spirit of recycling and making use of what's available, I'd consider getting a stove or furnace that can burn your sawdust and other scraps in addition to other fuels of some sort - possibly something like a Sedore. I think the semi-OWB idea is also good - get a furnace and put it in an outbuilding or addition... It would be outdoors and burn wood, but not be critter we all love to hate. I agree it sounds more like a furnace size application than a pellet stove.
BTW, my local small engine (lawn tractors, chainsaw, etc.) shop heats with a pellet stove inside his small shop - one can question the wisdom considering that he has a lot of gas getting spilled and such, but he's been in business for years, and hasn't blown up yet...
Gooserider
Goose:
I seriously looked at the Sedore, but thought it too small for my purposes. They are trying to heat 6,000 sf. Not enough details on ceiling height and insulation type of construction. Further information is needed for size, but I can't think of a pellet stove that will successfully heat much over half that space. Any comments on the biggest available outside of a furnace?
joedec said:Sorry guys for the tardy response. Our building has exposed steel bar joists with the metal decking at 14" above finished floor. The roof is new with 2" rigid insu;lation. We have two gas rooftop units that heat the space. We have a 20' x 30' partitioned spray booth and a partition office / lunch room appx. 300 s.f. The balance of the 6000 s.f. is open shop area with machines, tools and work areas. Prior to this builkding I had offered to purchase a building of similiar size and it was heated with a commercial pellet stove in the shop area. I was there in February and it heated the shop very well. Of course I didn't get the info on the unit! We have a ducted dust collection system for all machines and materials are all vertically stored in one area. The builkding is constructed of concrete block exterior with exposed steel barjoists and steel framing on the interior. There would be an area with plenty of clearances for fire concerns. My intent is to find a unit that can reduce the use of the rooftop gas units. I hate dealing with the gas company and their prices in CT are expensive.
Do you reverse the fans in the winter? That's what I have to do..joedec said:The spray booth vents to the outside with the shop air as make up air. It draws air from the shop thru filters mounted within the partitions which is painful as it exhausts warm air in the winter. There are periods of heavy use for a couple of days and when we are fabricating laminated cabinets it may go unused for several days or a week. I am unable to csalculate the time of use as it is directly dependent on our customers orders.Our dust collection systems are internal with 3 separate systems which collect machine dust into large containers. We have 6 ceiling fans mounted high which are effieient in the summer monmths. I do not have a budget in mind but if i do something it has to be cost effective. Thanks for the replies.
UncleRich said:Joe:
BeGreen's suggestion of multi-stoves is a very good one. Two or even three of the cost effective 30n's from Englander would substantially help.
stoveguy2esw said:UncleRich said:Joe:
BeGreen's suggestion of multi-stoves is a very good one. Two or even three of the cost effective 30n's from Englander would substantially help.
2 30's would probably handle it, looking at 2 flues though , im not sure if there is a single interior wood unit that would get it done alone, maybe, just maybe that big 'ol blaze king, the one with the gynormous firebox, but even with that you might come up a bit short. hard to say for sure , will depend on heat retention as much as anything.
UncleRich said:stoveguy2esw said:UncleRich said:Joe:
BeGreen's suggestion of multi-stoves is a very good one. Two or even three of the cost effective 30n's from Englander would substantially help.
2 30's would probably handle it, looking at 2 flues though , im not sure if there is a single interior wood unit that would get it done alone, maybe, just maybe that big 'ol blaze king, the one with the gynormous firebox, but even with that you might come up a bit short. hard to say for sure , will depend on heat retention as much as anything.
Mike,
What's the biggest pellet burner you have heard of? Is there anything in the 100,000 plus Btu that really exists? I think this is a great pellet challenge.
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