Couple of questions for the Harman P series owners on this site

[Chain]

I just had a Harman P61A installed late last week and have noticed a smoke smell whenever the stove ignites (when in Stove Temp mode and when it first ignites in Room Temp mode). I'm guessing there's a leak in the venting somewhere and so plan on sealing all the seams with high temp silicone. I have two questions for other Harman owners. First, how many of you have done the same given it's a pain to take apart once the venting is sealed? Second, are you able to clean the exhaust area and solid pipe all the way to where the venting attaches to the unit fairly easy with a vacuum (taking caution to avoid the ESP sensor of course) thereby negating the need to take the venting apart in order to get to this area of the stove? My dealer told me that he never seals the venting precisely because it's a pain to then take apart should you ever need to in the future. Despite that the owners manual is adamant that the venting be sealed. Thanks for any info. you can provide.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

please describe what the venting consist of such as adapter, tee, 3"x36, 90. Please list make of the pipe and every piece.

Eric

 

[Chain]

It's a 3" vent that attaches to the stove with a tee and then goes vertical directly through my roof. The vertical portion connected to the tee consists of two 6' sections. There is a clean out at the bottom of the tee. I'm not sure the brand of vent as it was previously installed in a Lopi Fox Fire which the previous owner of the house already had when I purchased the house back in 2001. My Harman dealer simply installed the new P61A to this existing venting and told me it was the same kind he uses for all of his installations. It is double insulated.

Again, he told me he never seals any of the venting he installs due to the pain of taking it apart in the future. But, since I clean the vent directly from my roof with a vent brush and assume I can get the section going from the stove into the tee right through the exhaust area by the blower, Esp sensor, etc...(note my second question above), and I utilize the clean out portion of the tee to collect the ash, taking the vent apart isn't really a concern for me.

 

[aaronnoel]

others will know more on this, but to me it seems like 12 foot of vert on a 3 inch pipe is to much You may want to think about going over to 4 inch piping to handle all that vert. I don't know if that's what your start up smell of smoke is all about. As far as cleaning out that pipe, on my p68 , to clean it real good I pull it out and use a air compressor every few years, others will talk about the "leaf blower trick" witch I have never done but have read that it's easy and works well. Good luck with your Harman I love mine.

 

[Defiant]

3" is OK, you really need to seal all pipe inside house. It is common during start up to get some smoke odor, untill full ignition is met. At that point stove is pushing for a draft and creating negative pressure at the force of complete ignition. Nice stove, sorry if my help is not clear but please post photo's.

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

I just had a Harman P61A installed late last week and have noticed a smoke smell whenever the stove ignites (when in Stove Temp mode and when it first ignites in Room Temp mode). I'm guessing there's a leak in the venting somewhere and so plan on sealing all the seams with high temp silicone. I have two questions for other Harman owners. First, how many of you have done the same given it's a pain to take apart once the venting is sealed? Second, are you able to clean the exhaust area and solid pipe all the way to where the venting attaches to the unit fairly easy with a vacuum (taking caution to avoid the ESP sensor of course) thereby negating the need to take the venting apart in order to get to this area of the stove? My dealer told me that he never seals the venting precisely because it's a pain to then take apart should you ever need to in the future. Despite that the owners manual is adamant that the venting be sealed. Thanks for any info. you can provide.

I've got a P-43 in the basement with a total of 35 ft of pipe which inludes two 45 degree bends. I had the exact same setup with my P-38 but due to a major house fire, I had to replace the stove.

With the P-38, I would detach the pipe from the back of the stove to clean it. I always had a smoke smell problem after doing this.

With my P-43, I clean the short horizontal piece from the front of the stove as you describe with a vacuum and brush. Then from the very bottom of the pipe, I take off the cap and run a brush up to the top of the pipe. Therefore, i dont detach the pipe from the back of the stove yet am able to completely clean the pipe with no smoke smell afterwards.

 

[silverfox103]

When I first had my new P68 installed, 4 years ago. I could have sworn mine was leaking as I was detecting a smoke smell. I called the dealer, and he said it's normal to have a burn-in smell on a new stove. He was right, in less than a week, all smoke smell was gone.

Tom C.

 

[DexterDay]

others will know more on this, but to me it seems like 12 foot of vert on a 3 inch pipe is to much You may want to think about going over to 4 inch piping to handle all that vert. I don't know if that's what your start up smell of smoke is all about. As far as cleaning out that pipe, on my p68 , to clean it real good I pull it out and use a air compressor every few years, others will talk about the "leaf blower trick" witch I have never done but have read that it's easy and works well. Good luck with your Harman I love mine.

Having 12' of vert is only a 6 EVL, add the clean-out T (5 EVL) and his EVL is 11. With 15' EVL being Max. 11 is just fine.

A 3" system can be pretty long. As long as its vertical. 5' for the T and 20' of vert would be the Max (15 EVL) for 3".

 

[Defiant]

Having 12' of vert is only a 6 EVL, add the clean-out T (5 EVL) and his EVL is 11. With 15' EVL being Max. 11 is just fine.

A 3" system can be pretty long. As long as its vertical. 5' for the T and 20' of vert would be the Max (15 EVL) for 3".

Plus it is a Harman.

 

[subsailor]

My dealer told me that he never seals the venting precisely because it's a pain to then take apart should you ever need to in the future. Despite that the owners manual is adamant that the venting be sealed. Thanks for any info. you can provide.

My son works for a HVAC company and installs pipe every day. He recommended I not seal my pipe with silicone. I used aluminum tape instead. I take it apart every year and clean, then retape the joints.

 

[DexterDay]

My son works for a HVAC company and installs pipe every day. He recommended I not seal my pipe with silicone. I used aluminum tape instead. I take it apart every year and clean, then retape the joints.

I will 2nd the High Temp tape (if needed). All systems do not need sealant. But other than the High Temp Silicone on appliance adapter, the joints that need sealed, should be Taped. So they can be removed in the future.

 

[Lousyweather]

I wouldnt seal the pipe with silicone either, except where the pipe mounts to the stove nipple. I am guessing thats where your leak is too....the joint leaks, the smoke is taken in by the distribution fan and pushed into the room. You can shut the stove down, turn off the lights and go into a startup cycle and look for a leak with a flashlight- works pretty well. Also, if the pipe is really old, maybe invest in new pipe? If you do have to seal the pipe, try black silicone tape, or, if you dont care what it looks like, then metal tape....the leak is almost certainly in the pipe, as the interior of the stove is basically a vacuum....if it wasnt the stove wouldnt feed.

 

[Chain]

Thanks for all the insight, folks. The odd thing is, I never had this problem with my Lopi. Due to its design, I had to take the venting apart near the tee in order to clean out the nipple area which would always be somewhat full of ash after a season of burning. After thinking about this last night, I think I'm going to start with where the nipple goes into the tee as Lousyweather suggested. If the smell continues, I'll work my way up the different sections of the venting. I did purchase some metal tape last week but of course the wife thinks its color will look ugly. Despite my best efforts to explain that solving the smoke problem is far more important to me than any aesthetic issues, she' still adamant that I try the silicone first. But black silicone tape might do the trick since the venting is black and so the tape won't stick out nearly as much (I assume anyway). Can anyone suggest where I can find such a product? I can't find it anywhere in my area. Maybe a HVAC/plumbing supply store? That's the next place I'm going to try. After the silicone at the nipple that is. Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[Lousyweather]

most True Value stores have it......called Wrap-Fix tape. it looks for all the world like electrical tape, but has a temp resistance to it, being made of of silicone. And it isnt a traditional tape, it sticks to itself......if you cant find it, Im sure I can get you the SKU number specifically....

 

[Chain]

Oddly enough, my local HVAC/plumbing store, which normally has everything imaginable, doesn't have such a product. I did find some on-line but don't want to wait for delivery. I'll try the local true value and hope for the best. If I can't find it this weekend, I'm just going to silicone the nipple and then use the silver tape I already bought and tape the next joint up (which is somewhat hidden from view) and see if that solves the problem. If not, I'll find the black tape and continue along up the venting until I solve the problem. Again, thanks for the help. What a great site this is!

 

[kinsmanstoves]

with no adapter between the stove and the tee it will leak. PERIOD.

Eric

 

[Lousyweather]

with no adapter between the stove and the tee it will leak. PERIOD.

Eric

as Im sure youre aware. its actually pretty difficult to get the tee on the nipple with some brands of pipe, as the hopper back precludes the tee from actually gettiing on the nipple very well.....

 

[Lousyweather]

also, the True Value sku for Wrap-Fix silicone tape is 616-134.

http://www.duckbrand.com/Products/diy-products/diy-specialties/self-fusing-repair-tape.aspx

I once had a cut sheet of this stuff from Duck, and I believe the temp was 500-600 degrees Farenhieght, but didnt find that on the website...sorry

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Yes sometime you have to use a 6" length but you still have to use an adapter or it will leak.

Eric

 

[Chain]

I siliconed at the nipple and taped the next seam up and no smoke smell. I've attached several photos of the new stove. The last one is of the old hearth and old Lopi Fox fire. You'll note the new stove isn't perfectly perpendicular to the mantle behind it. While it looks a little strange, I opted to do this in order to improve the air flow out into the rest of the house rather than having it point primarily into the living room like with my old Lopi. With the plants and decorations in place, I think it sort of "softens" the look as the stove blends into the corner a little better. Again, the odd location definitely improves the air flow out into my kitchen and back bedrooms. I also have two ceiling fans in the room which also aid in air movement. I think this alternate placement with really improve heat transfer.

The tiles on both the floor and the wall behind the stove are brand new. The mantle as well. As you can see from second to the last attached photo (IMG-0814), the Lopi sat on a raised wooden hearth with some cheap vinyl tile covering the plywood and the mantle was white painted pine with some tacky looking molding around it. The new mantle is solid red oak with a couple coats of satin poly applied to it.

I have to say I'm very happy with how it all turned out. And now that I think the smoke at start up problem is solved, I'm loving the Harman. Come winter, it'll now become my primary heat source and my #2 fuel oil boiler will be used almost exclusively for back-up and to preheat my domestic hot water (even that I'm considering getting away from). Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[smoke show]

Looking good!

 

[Defiant]

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